Salvation by grace through faith; not through works / law-keeping.

[grace2]

You seem to be pretending that I tell people not to keep commandments of God.

You are going along with a line of "your works cannot save you" doctrine.

You are for the OP.

I am not.

I will not debate this silly doctrine.

good day.

 

[7thMoon]

You are going along with a line of "your works cannot save you" doctrine.

You are for the OP.

I am not.

I will not debate this silly doctrine.

good day.

But are you safe? I say no one is safe.

 

[grace2]

But are you safe? I say no one is safe.

I am safe if God approves me of being faithful.

I am waiting for Jesus' verdict.

bye.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No, I showed you, Jesus said the person who has already had a bath doesn't need to wash all over again, he just needs his feet washed. John 13:10

That has nothing at all to do with sin.
John 13:15 tells us the reason..."For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you."
Serve one another.

How many times must the Lord shed His cleansing blood before you quit dirtying yourself with sin?
It is written..."For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Heb 6:4-6)

Repeat repenters were never enlightened, or tasted the heavenly gift, or the good word, or the powers to come.
One real repentance form sin will change all that.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Don't heap that discouraging false message on believers. You keep that burden on yourself.

Believers have the change of heart and mind about sin. Now, as children of God under God's leading and instruction and discipline, they are learning to walk according to that change of mind about sin.

Stop discouraging believers and making them think they aren't born again because they're not 100% sinless like you! You're under the same condemnation as the Pharisees! Put down your pointy finger and stop shutting the door of the kingdom in believers faces!

The message is meant for the false believers.
The real ones have already turned from sin permanently.
If anyone wants to serve our Lord and King, he wants to do it perfectly.
You should quit telling them they can serve and worship God and His son 75%...or 40%...or 10%.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yes, God has called us to walk in the light.

Walking in darkness means walking in hate.


He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:10-11

• But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness…

Those who walk in the light, have their sins cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

• if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:7-8

• If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves

Those who claim they have no sin deceive themselves.






JLB

Sinners walk in sin, darkness.
Believers walk in God, light
Sinners cannot say they have no sin, or that they have fellowship with God.
Those walking in the light, in God, can say it; as there is no sin in God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

And, yet, that isn't taught anywhere in the NT. In fact, it is made very clear throughout that believers still struggle with sin.

1Co 1:11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers.

1Co 3:1 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready,
1Co 3:3 for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?
1Co 3:4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human?

1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife.
1Co 5:2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.

1Co 6:7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded?
1Co 6:8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers!

1Co 8:9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.
1Co 8:10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols?
1Co 8:11 And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died.
1Co 8:12 Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.

1Co 10:6 Now these things took place as examples for us, that we might not desire evil as they did.
1Co 10:7 Do not be idolaters as some of them were; as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink and rose up to play.”
1Co 10:8 We must not indulge in sexual immorality as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in a single day.
1Co 10:9 We must not put Christ to the test, as some of them did and were destroyed by serpents,
1Co 10:10 nor grumble, as some of them did and were destroyed by the Destroyer.
1Co 10:11 Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.
1Co 10:12 Therefore let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.
1Co 10:14 Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.

1Co 11:28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
1Co 11:29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself.
1Co 11:30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.
1Co 11:31 But if we judged ourselves truly, we would not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
1Jn 5:17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.

(All ESV.)

That is just a small sampling showing that true believers were struggling with sin. Remember, all the NT letters were written to new or relatively new believers, and it was necessary to show them how to live as Christians. This is no different than today. We still wage war against the flesh but our lives aren't to be characterized by willful, unrepentant sin.

A second "turn from" sin means the first "turn from" sin was a lie to God.

 

[Free]

This thread is about salvation is not by works.

Yes, and it veered into discussion about whether Christians sin or not. That's what I was addressing.

So I don't see anything you are saying about it.

Are you for or against the OP?

I agree that salvation is by grace, not works.

 

[Free]

A second "turn from" sin means the first "turn from" sin was a lie to God.

Then every Christian, including yourself, has lied.

 

[7thMoon]

Perserverance of the "saints" is a Calvinist myth not shared by many Calvinists.

 

[JLB]

Sinners walk in sin, darkness.
Believers walk in God, light
Sinners cannot say they have no sin, or that they have fellowship with God.
Those walking in the light, in God, can say it; as there is no sin in God.

Your theory is not scriptural.

Here is what the scriptures say.

Ignore them to your own peril.


Those who walk in the light, have their sins cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

• if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:7-8

• If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves

JLB

 

[JLB]

A second "turn from" sin means the first "turn from" sin was a lie to God.

Please show the scripture that says what you claim.

 

[grace2]

Yes, and it veered into discussion about whether Christians sin or not. That's what I was addressing.


I agree that salvation is by grace, not works.

that's what I thought.

That's what most trins believe except RCC.

good day.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Do you consider repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins to be works?
Without them, there is no salvation.

Yes, they are works, but they are not works that God justifies you for doing. That's what you and, perhaps, many other people in the church don't understand.

You lack the revelation of justification through faith apart from works. That doesn't mean works don't, or can't accompany faith. It means justification occurs solely on the basis of faith not by the works that accompany faith. A person becomes righteous with the righteousness of God by having faith, not by doing righteous, obedient works. I can't make you have that revelation. Only God can do that. The revelation of that truth was so profound to Luther that he says he was born again in that moment of revelation.

 

[Free]

that's what I thought.

That's what most trins believe except RCC.

good day.

Okay. So what was your point? It’s the biblical position, just as Christians still struggling with sin is, and just as Trinitarianism is.

 

[grace2]

Okay. So what was your point? It’s the biblical position, just as Christians still struggling with sin is, and just as Trinitarianism is.

My point is that trins churches are full of man-made doctrines, especially protestants.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If the man still commits sin, he has not repented of sin.

That's your theology because you do not know what repentance means. Repentance does not mean being 100% sinless.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

My point is that trins churches are full of man-made doctrines, especially protestants.

Of course, she's in the right church. The one and only real church.

 

[Free]

My point is that trins churches are full of man-made doctrines, especially protestants.

But you haven’t proven anything to be a man-made doctrine.

 

[grace2]

But you haven’t proven anything to be a man-made doctrine.

Your doctrines are all man-made becaseu you have nothing to back up from Jesus' own word.

I know you keep on coming up with Paul's teachings.

You guys are misusing and abusing Paul's words.

This is not debatable, take it or leave it.

bye.