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Salvation by grace through faith; not through works / law-keeping.

donadams said:
And grace received by “Faith alone”?
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The grace of justification is received by faith "apart from works".

Please start using the appropriate phrase so as to distinguish Paul's argument of how you become righteous by faith apart from works from James's argument of how you show yourself to have the righteousness of faith by what you do.

You become righteous through faith apart from works. Philippians 3:9, Romans 4:6, Romans 3:21-22
You show yourself to have that faith by your works. James 2:18

You will never see this if you persist in believing the Catholic error that Paul is echoing James' faith alone argument. You will remain in the false comfort of your works justification gospel and you will have no inheritance in the kingdom when Jesus returns.
 
Please explain

Not the imputed righteousness of Christ
Our righteousness

Matt 5: 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
 
donadams said:
Please explain

Not the imputed righteousness of Christ
Our righteousness

Matt 5: 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
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Jesus is making you realize you need a righteousness that you don't have. One that exceeds even that of the Pharisees. A righteousness we now know from the scriptures as a declaration of righteousness that comes through faith in God's forgiveness, credited to you apart from your works, not by your works.

You can't produce this righteousness that exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees, or any other person who is convinced they are working the righteousness that enables them to enter the kingdom of God. The only righteousness that can do that is a declaration of right standing with God credited to you when you believe God's promise of blessing through his Son. Just as that happened for Abraham, our example of justification by faith apart from works.

21being fully persuaded that God was able to do what He had promised. 22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.”

23Now the words “it was credited to him” were written not only for Abraham, 24but also for us, to whom righteousness will be credited—for us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. Romans 4:21-24

As you can see, he wasn't credited righteousness because he did faithful works. He was credited righteousness because he believed that God was able to do what he promised. And that's how we, also, are credited righteousness - by believing the gospel promise, not by doing righteous works.

Until your righteousness is the protection of God's declaration of righteousness apart from your works you have no righteousness good enough to get you through the coming judgement of fire and into the kingdom of God. The righteousness of your faithful works won't do that for you.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Jesus is making you realize you need a righteousness that you don't have. One that exceeds even that of the Pharisees. A righteousness we now know from the scriptures as a declaration of righteousness that comes through faith in God's forgiveness, credited to you apart from your works, not by your works.

You can't produce this righteousness that exceeds the righteousness of the Pharisees, or any other person who is convinced they are working the righteousness that enables them to enter the kingdom of God. The only righteousness that can do that is a declaration of right standing with God credited to you when you believe God's promise of blessing through his Son. Just as that happened for Abraham, our example of justification by faith apart from works.

21being fully persuaded that God was able to do what He had promised. 22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.”

23Now the words “it was credited to him” were written not only for Abraham, 24but also for us, to whom righteousness will be credited—for us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. Romans 4:21-24

As you can see, he wasn't credited righteousness because he did faithful works. He was credited righteousness because he believed that God was able to do what he promised. And that's how we, also, are credited righteousness - by believing the gospel promise, not by doing righteous works.

Until your righteousness is the protection of God's declaration of righteousness apart from your works you have no righteousness good enough to get you through the coming judgement of fire and into the kingdom of God. The righteousness of your faithful works won't do that for you.
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Only the first motive
Initial grace
Then we conform to it
Is Sara our spiritual mother?
 
Hopeful 2 said:
Christians don't commit sin.
Only those walking in darkness commit sin.

“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:4-9)

“We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.” (1 John 5:18)
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  • If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

Based on this scripture, do you believe Christians can confess their sins and be forgiven?

Yes?
No?
 
JLB said:
  • If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
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Yep,, confession is the first step to walking in God.
JLB said:
Based on this scripture, do you believe Christians can confess their sins and be forgiven?

Yes?
No?
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No, as those in the light can't have any darkness in/on them.
After their v.9 confession and their v.7 washing by the blood of Christ, they can start to call themselves Christians.
By remaining in the light/God, they can continue to say they have no sin.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
It is written..."...God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5)
If we are "in Him", "walking in the light", there can't be any darkness/sin in us.
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“If we are "in Him", "walking in the light", there can't be any darkness/sin in us.”


Again those are your words, not scripture.


Here is what scripture plainly says…


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7


”We” and “us” refer to those who walk in the light.

  • if we walk in the light as He is in the light…, the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Those who walk in the light as He is in the light have their sins cleansed by the blood of Jesus.


You are trying, to no avail, to twist the plain words of scripture to fit your own man made theology.


Jesus explains what walking he means by walking in the light in the context of 1 John 1:7

Context continued in the following verses —

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2


He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11


  • But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness
  • He who loves his brother abides in the light
Walking in the light = walking in love
Walking in the light does not mean we are sinlessly perfect.
  • If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8


JLB
 
JLB said:
Based on this scripture, do you believe Christians can confess their sins and be forgiven?

Yes?
No?
Click to expand...


Hopeful 2 said:
No, as those in the light can't have any darkness in/on them.
After their v.9 confession and their v.7 washing by the blood of Christ, they can start to call themselves Christians.
By remaining in the light/God, they can continue to say they have no sin.
Click to expand...


If Christians can not confess their sins and be forgiven, then what hope do Christians have?

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9


No where in scripture is this ridiculous statement found, that you claim.


Christians walk in the light. Christian’s who walk in the light have their sins cleansed.


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7







JLB
 
Hopeful 2 said:
No, as those in the light can't have any darkness in/on them.
After their v.9 confession and their v.7 washing by the blood of Christ, they can start to call themselves Christians.
By remaining in the light/God, they can continue to say they have no sin.
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How do you, yourself get forgiven your sins?
 
JLB said:
“If we are "in Him", "walking in the light", there can't be any darkness/sin in us.”
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That is correct !
JLB said:
Again those are your words, not scripture.
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Oh, I thought you were citing scripture, especially 1 John 1:5 and 7.
JLB said:
Here is what scripture plainly says
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7
”We” and “us” refer to those who walk in the light.
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Yes, it refers to those who have been cleansed.
There is no sin already in, or occasionally in, the light...which is God.
JLB said:
  • if we walk in the light as He is in the light…, the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
Click to expand...
Oh !
Now I see the problem !
Your version of the KJV has the word "cleanses" instead of "cleanseth".
It has led you down a path that includes sin in God !
JLB said:
Those who walk in the light as He is in the light have their sins cleansed by the blood of Jesus.
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If they are in God, it is necessary that the sin was already washed away by the blood of Christ.
There is no sin in God.
JLB said:
You are trying, to no avail, to twist the plain words of scripture to fit your own man made theology.
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You are saying there is sin in God.
I know that is not true.
JLB said:
Jesus explains what walking he means by walking in the light in the context of 1 John 1:7
Context continued in the following verses —
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2
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All I can say is, the Advocate is available to all sinners, so they too can walk in God.
JLB said:
He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now.
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That is the guy you keep saying is in the light and needs to be washed.
JLB said:
He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
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That is the guy I am trying to get you to see.
The non-stumbler who is in God.
JLB said:
But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11
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Sinners are not in God...the light.
JLB said:
  • But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness
  • He who loves his brother abides in the light
Walking in the light = walking in love
Walking in the light does not mean we are sinlessly perfect.
  • If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8


JLB
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There is no sin in God.
It is those who walk in sin who cannot say they have no sin.
They cannot say they have fellowship with God either.
Why do you keep trying to say that those who do not have fellowship with God are walking in Him?
 
JLB said:
If Christians can not confess their sins and be forgiven, then what hope do Christians have?

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9


No where in scripture is this ridiculous statement found, that you claim.


Christians walk in the light. Christian’s who walk in the light have their sins cleansed.


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7







JLB
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If they confess their sins, and get washed by the blood of Christ, they can become Christians.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
I don't sin, since my repentance from sin was real.
I walk in the light, wherein is no stumbling.
I have fellowship with God.
Praise be to Him !
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More of your opinion.


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10





JLB
 
JLB said:
More of your opinion.


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10





JLB
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So which do you believe?
Verse 8 says we cannot say we have no sin.
But verse 9 says all our unrighteousness can be washed away.
Which is true?
Can all our sins be washed away by the blood of Christ (v7) ?
Or will we always carry our past sins with us until we are judged for them on the last day?

I believe all are true, but verses 6,8, and 10, are addressing only those who walk in sin/darkness.
The other verse address only those who walk in God/light.
 
donadams said:
Only the first motive
Initial grace
Then we conform to it
Is Sara our spiritual mother?
Click to expand...
You're making the mistake of the Galatians. Assuming you started out in the Spirit (what you call initial grace) you then replace reliance on the 'righteousness of the hearing of faith' with the righteousness of commandments and rituals:

2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

3Are you so foolish? After starting in the Spirit, are you now finishing in the flesh? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing, if it really was for nothing? 5Does God lavish His Spirit on you and work miracles among you because you practice the law, or because you hear and believe?

6So also, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a 7Understand, then, that those who have faith are sons of Abraham. Galatians 3:2-7

Paul is very clear to the Galatians that to do this is to be severed from Christ, making him of no effect to you in justification (Galatians 5:4-5). And that you have no inheritance with the sons of God (Galatians 4:30). You are in bondage to a law of commandments and rituals that you think completes what 'initial grace' started. You make Christ of no value to you in justification. You are fallen from grace.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
Can all our sins be washed away by the blood of Christ (v7) ?
Or will we always carry our past sins with us until we are judged for them on the last day?
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My sin gets dealt with by the blood of Christ that I believe in the instant I commit it. THAT is the righteousness that keeps me at peace with God and which I trust in to make me qualified to be in the kingdom now and enter into it physically at the end of the age.

You're trusting in the whitewashed wall of your righteous behavior to enter into the kingdom. You will be sorely disappointed at the resurrection when you find out you weren't the perfectly sinless person you thought you were and that the righteous behavior you did have isn't good enough to get you into the kingdom.
 
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