SALVATION

[vja4Him]

Jesus' Salvation is very simple. Why does this thread going on so many pages?

We have to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior for salvation. How do we honor Him as our Lord? By keeping His commandments. Jesus says if you love me "keep my commandments". All His commandments are in the New Testament.

It seems that most of us are trying to find loop holes to dishonor Jesus' commandments and make His salvation cheap, hypocritical and disgraceful.

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What does the Bible say:

Romans 10:9-10

9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

I believe what the Bible says, not what people say. The Bible says that if I confess with my mouth, Jesus is Lord, which I have done, and believe in my heart that God raised him (Jesus) from the dead, which I do believe, then I will be saved.

You can't add works to salvation. True Christians will have works, but we are not perfect, not yet. We have not yet received our glorified bodies, and so we are still stuck in this fleshly body. Can't do anything about that ....

Yes, we must try to live a good life, please God, serve our fellow man, do good deeds, but you or anyone cannot keep all of the commandments all of the time! We are all sinners and will sin.

But praise God, we have Jesus as our Mediator, and He will forgive our sins:

1 John 1:8-10

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

 

[vja4Him]

False Brethren Performing Miracles ...

The gentlemen refered to in Matthew 7 were NOT walking in the ways of the Lord, today, so their hypocritical acts were duly noted. There was no attempt to reject sinful demeanors and attitudes.

As to the "I never knew you", I believe that is hyperbole, since men cannot cast out demons in the name of Christ UNLESS Christ knew us at that time. It is Jesus' attempt to get our attention to the seriousness of BECOMING wicked when one was ONCE righteous.

Somehow you are misunderstanding the Bible ....

Matthew chapter 24 makes it clear:

24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.

False Christs and false prophets, working great signs and miracles .... They are not saved. They are false brethren. But they do and will perform great signs and wonders, and we are even seeing this happen in our time ...

 

[vja4Him]

Cornelius wrote:
Do you think this is speaking about Christians who are going to heaven?

Hbr 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift,(Saved and filled with the Holy Spirit ) and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

C,

You seem to be hinting and emphasizing your own understanding of the Holy Spirit. It is so wrong, friend. I hope you reexamine your preaching.

You are giving impression that if you dont speak in tongue, the Holy Spirit does not dwell in you; it is too simplistic.

.

I could see that coming too ... One false doctrine begets more false teaching .... Seems to go hand in hand ....

 

[vja4Him]

Re: Works Based Salvation ...

I put my assurance in my salvation, not in what I might do, but in what Christ has already done on the cross of calvary.

Does this mean you believe EVERYONE is saved, then????

Why are you twisting my words ... ??? I never said anything like that ... !!! NO, I do NOT believe that everyone is saved. That is ridiculous ... !!! Nobody here ever even said, or even hinted that everyone is saved ... !!! Where are you getting that from? Certainly not from this thread, or this forum ....

[quote:z67b1ybm]As a Christian, sure I will do good works, but I never think of my works as giving me any assurance that I will make it to heaven. That would only lead me into a false sense of security.

[quote:z67b1ybm]Jesus will save me completely! Not partially, not temporarily. My salvation in Christ is COMPLETE, in Jesus, not in my works.

[/quote:z67b1ybm][/quote:z67b1ybm]

 

[vja4Him]

You can go ahead and put on a show, trying to live a life "Holier Than Thou," but you are only fooling yourself! You can't do it, and you know it!

The only righteousness that anyone has in the righteousness in Christ. All of your (and mine) righteousness is as FILTHY RAGS ... !!!

Isaiah chapter 64

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

You will not convince me otherwise, so you are just wasting your time. The only reason I'm staying in this thread is to share the truth of the scriptuers, hoping and praying that the lurkers will see and understand the truth, that they can know they are saved with absolute certainty ....

Jesus is your assurance of your salvation, not any works that you can do.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

The problem here is that your past community focused too heavily upon eschatology as the SOLE meaning of "being saved". Being saved meant "going to heaven". THAT is NOT the dominant meaning of "being saved" in Scriptures. It doesn't refer to a future act, the vast majority of the time, but rather, a CURRENT situation. Saved from what? Saved from a LIFE of sin. This is not just double-speak, where we are given a bus ticket while we are STILL subject to a sinful, polluted lifestyle. NO! The Spirit can free us from that. And as we reject sin and its slavery, we are BEING SAVED TODAY! The secondary effect of this salvation is that it opens the gates of heaven to us, since ONLY the holy will enter within.

Thus, AS we live a life of holiness, rejecting sin, we realize salvation in our life TODAY, and we trust that God will keep His promise to us - based upon the sacrifice of His only Son, we can be assured that He will, brother.

This is the basis of our assurance in eternal life. AS we live in Christ, we will rise with Christ...

Regards

 

[shad]

Romans 10:9-10

9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

When you confess Jesus is Lord, you will obey all His commandments. You should not dismiss the work Jesus gives us to do if you honor Him as your Lord.

Jesus repeats many times to be faithful to Him until the end, friend.

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[vja4Him]

They were never saved in the first place.

Matthew chapter seven:

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Who are you to judge ? They were saved. They served the Lord and then fell away. The same thing can happen to you and I. Its only God's grace that keep us standing.

Wrong ... The Lord says that He NEVER knew them! They were NEVER saved.

And, you are wrong again. I will not, and cannot lose MY salvation. If you think that you can lose your salvation, then perhaps you are not even saved (yet) .... And just to save you the trouble .... No, I'm not judging you and saying that you are not saved, just maybe you need to do some serious Bible study, praying, and seeking the Lord about this matter.

You are leading others into confusion, where they will doubt their salvation, and have no peace in Christ. God is not the author of confusion.

 

[vja4Him]

When one is washed by the blood of our Savior, we can never be dirtied by sin again, because His righeousness is imputed to us. .

Jesus disagrees with you. He washed the FEET of the disciples to point to the fact that the Word (Jesus) MUST wash out walk. Our bodies are clean because of His blood and sacrifice , but our walk can still be wrong. Please notice that even though Peter's "body" was clean, Jesus said Peter has no part in Him, IF He did not wash His feet (walk)

It does not matter if your body has been washed and then after that your walk stinks.The salvation is not manifested.

Jesus washed the feet of his disciples to show that we must be servants to our brothers. You need to get off your high horse and understand that you are no better than anybody saved or unsaved, The only difference is that you hold Jesus as your lord and saviour. The bible states that we are as filthy rags in Gods eyes but Jesus paid for our sins so that we can enter heaven and be welcomed as one of his own. You need to focus not so much on your sin or orthers sins, but the love tha God has toward everyone.

Amen! Preach it .... This is the same haughty spirit that I have seen in person in numerous churches ... People keep harping about having to do good works ... hoping that you just MIGHT make it into heaven ....

That is a cultic teaching. The cults all around the world suck people into thinking that they have to do something to earn their salvation.

These people who preach and believe that you can lose your salvation, and not even know if you are counted among the saved, God's elect, are still under bondage of the Law. They have not been set free, and know not the freedom and peace of Christ.

Romans 8:2

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[vja4Him]

Re: Paul, Worst of Sinners ...

What did Paul say of himself ....

1 Timothy 1:15-16

15Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

Paul considered himself to be the worst of sinners.

Yes he did, and in Romans 7 he tells us of the law of sin which all men are under as long as we live in these physical bodies.

Paul had something else important to say:

Romans chapter seven:

14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Seems like some people simply ignore what Paul says concerning our position in Christ. Even though we are saved, we still sin, but we do not lose our salvation when we sin. We are constantly at war against our flesh, but we can be assured that we have and advocate who will intercede for us, Jesus Christ who is the Mediator between God and men .... Praise and glory to to the Lord!

 

[vja4Him]

The warning is not for Christians ....

Where did you get this idea?

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Why didn't you keep a little more of the post. I need more information to respond ...

 

[vja4Him]

Good message and I agree, but I would add a word of caution ... We must be careful not become complacent and comfortable in our sins. I am concerned with those who are teaching too much on the side of postive thinking, feeling so good about yourself, and watering down the scriptures, not preaching on sin, repentance, etc.

We need to have that true peace of Christ, that yes, we are forgiven of our sins, past, present, and future, and that our salvation is secure in Christ, and that nobody can take that away.

But we need to know that we are in Christ, and that we are not condemned, even when we sin:

Romans 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

There is so much false teaching in the church today....I believe we're in the midst of the great delusion. It used to be we were to come out from the world and be separate...now it's almost to the point where we have to come out of the churches to be separate. I see true believers everywhere meeting together in homes in order to escape the error being taught. We're going back to how it was in the beginning...small new testament churches. We'll be totally underground before you know it.

I know exactly what you are saying ... One reason why I started looking for a new church is that I'm concerned about the Emergent Church movement, which I see happening like it's the "In Thing" for churches to be doing nowdays ....

I found a small church, about seven blocks from our house, so my boys and I can walk there. We've been attending there for over a year, and I've watched the congregation get smaller and smaller .... The pastor doesn't play church, and he preaches firey sermons every Sunday, and even though I'm saved, I need to hear those sermons myself ... !!!

The Sunday School Bible studies are really good, and we each get to share, so it's not just sit back and shut up, and listen to somebody teach their way only. We dig deep into God's Word ....

There are so many false teachers, false preachers, false evangelists, false prophets, it will make your head spin if you try to keep up with them all .... I don't even watch Christian TV anymore. Hardly ever listen to Christian radio either.

We are seeing a radical shift in the direction of the mainstream church(es) .... and it doesn't look good one bit .... But there are millions who are falling for all the false teachings and false leaders .... Lots of itching ears .... and huge heaps of teachers to scratch their itches ....

 

[vja4Him]

Perseverance of the Saints, Andrew Moody

OK, I have said what I wanted to say and the one scripture that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Christians can indeed loose their salvation gets ignored (for obvious reasons) So here it is again, before I leave this thread:
Hbr 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, (Obviously Christians )

Here is a good sermon that will clarify the matter:

Perseverance of the Saints (Andrew Moody)

Scroll down a bit to the second set of sermons by Andrew Moody ...

Listen to the sermon, and you will understand why our salvation IS secure in Christ. Those people who were partakers of the Holy Spirit, but turned away, were never saved in the first place.

They experienced church, fellowship with believers, maybe even sing along for worship, might even learn to say a pray or two, learn the Christian lingo, do good works, smile, shake hands, maybe even serve in the church ....

But they never knew the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. Check out the sermon, which will help to better understand ....

 

[vja4Him]

Yeah .... I've slipped a few times myself ... And I'm so thankful that I have a God who forgives, and is there to pick me up when I fall ....

Psalm 37

23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD,
And He delights in his way.
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down;
For the LORD upholds him with His hand.

And I'm sure you can attest, as can I, that even when we ignore God, He is there waiting patiently for us to turn back to Him. I knew it, I could feel His presence, but like a naughty child I said, "in a minute...I don't want to stop what I'm doing". And how do we know, for that season, we're not alone? We hear His voice saying, "I'm here. I see what you're doing." The rod of correction comes out, and we're like a sheep being led back to the fold. The Lord is a shepherd, He loses none of His own. We may lose our way for awhile, but we are never really "lost". He's our father...we have to discipline our own children, but we would never forsake them.

And this is where so many people slip up, and get confused, which is just what Satan wants .... He wants people to go around beating themself up, like some sects do, they take a whip and actually whip themselves (I believe there was, maybe still is, a Catholic sect that did/does that), and there are also cults that do that. I read something in the news recently about some leader in a cult doing that ....

We know (everyone knows) that we are NOT good enough for God. Just take a look at reality ... People always fighting over a different version of the Bible ... Fighting and aruging over different denominations ... Fighting and aruging over variations in methods for baptism, fighting and aruging over the sacraments, fighting and aruging over who should be their next pastor ....

Always bickering, arguing .... trying to come up with a better program, bigger church, getting with the program, better music, more works, trying to live holy, more holy than others, seeking after signs, wonders, miracles, looking for the newest revelation, the latest books, tapes, CDs/DVDs ....

Never satisfied, never fulfilled, ever wanting, more, and more, thinking that we are not good enough ... If we can just do one more good work before we die ....

And just how much holier does all this make us ... ??? Nada, none, nil, zilch ... We are still sinners, saved by His grace and mercy. We deserve the flames of hell, fire and brimstone ...

Put all of your good works together, and you know what it's worth ... ??? Filthy rags. That's right .... All of your righteousness is only filthy rags ....

Isaiah 64:6

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

 

[vja4Him]

Firstly, I've never once given a Catholic rant. I was raised a Catholic. I know very well that being a Catholic does not mean there aren't believers in the Church. People quite often get saved in spite of their particular denomination. I don't appreciate being accused of twisting scripture, either. If I've failed to make myself clear, I'll try to do better in the future.

Next, you're taking these two verses out of context, ignoring totally the fact that these are people who have crept in among the believers.

Exactly correct ...

1 John 2:19

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

The Bible makes it very clear that there are those who appear to be a Christian, saved, but they NEVER were saved. They were among us, but then they went away from us, because they never belonged to us. They were never a part of the family of God. If they were saved, they would not have went out.

 

[vja4Him]

No dramas here. Clearly your whole belief system is based on yourself remaining IN christ, perhaps you can point out to me how one can conjure this sueprnatural requirement for salvation on a moment by moment basis. As we know the Lord will return as a thisf in the night, you must be living in abject terror and fear that you will be IN Christ at that precise moment. And if you are not living in abject fear, terror and misery on a daily basis, then you are either lieing about your beliefs or you have the deluded self centered egocentricity to believe that you are and or ever will be holy enough to enter into heaven on your own steam. All the best with that.

Your response is very strong language, blunt and to the point ... But somebody has to proclaim the message in a strong voice, just like John the Baptist.

The teaching that you can lose your salvation is causing many people to stumble, and doubt their salvation, and like you said, live in fear, even terror, every moment of their life.

I've seen people like that, Christians, who think that they haven't done enough good works yet ... They must go knock on a few more doors, pass out more tracks, get more people into their church, get more people to tithe, get people to pray louder, harder, longer, always placing more burdens upon people ....

Just DO, DO, DO, DO, DO, DO, DO, DO, more WORKS, MORE WORKS .... Not enough yet ... You slipped up ... You messed up ... Your lost. You need to repent and get saved again ....

What a lie .... straight from the firey pits of hell .... People, wake up and listento what God is saying in His Word .... You can KNOW for certain that you are saved, secure in Jesus Christ.

John 10

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

 

[Panin]

Francisdesales -- If you really believe that your salvation is not secure, then you are no better off than anyone in the cults. And I pitty you, and pray that you will come to know that you are truely saved by the grace of God.

How do you know you are saved? Jesus is the one who decides it, not anyone else. You will be saved if you strive to be obedient to Jesus until the end.

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Read the scriptures that I posted early that clearly state we know we have salvation. This life is in the son, If you have the son you have this life, if you do not have the son you do not have this life. I write these things to you so that you who have the son may know that you have eternal life.

Praise the Lord

 

[vja4Him]

I can only shake my head when I read your posts.
You do seem to spend a lot of time telling others they are programed.
Perhaps it's time for some introspection, hey?

You are programed when you believe you know God and love Him when you support the military and approving the killing your enemies. Your organization wants you to be prolifically correct christians and you are cooperating with them.

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Have you lost your mind? You don't know anything about me...whether I support the military or not...whether I approve of killing my enemies or not. And what in the world are you talking about organizations and "prolifically" correct ....................cooperation with "them". Who's "them".

Now maybe others will see why I shake my head when I read your posts. :help

This always happens when they get trapped in a corner ... They eventually revert to calling names, false accusations, blaming .....

The topic of fighting is for another thread. Somebody should start their own thread discussing that issue ....

 

[vja4Him]

Francisdesales -- If you really believe that your salvation is not secure, then you are no better off than anyone in the cults. And I pitty you, and pray that you will come to know that you are truely saved by the grace of God.

How do you know you are saved? Jesus is the one who decides it, not anyone else. You will be saved if you strive to be obedient to Jesus until the end.

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You are spouting HERESY ... !!! I know that I am saved. Yes, I KNOW for certain that I am saved.

Romans 10:9-10, “9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.â€

What you are espousing, that Jesus/God decides who gets saved, is straight from the firey pits of hell, just like Islam teaches, that Allah, the false God, can change his mind, and keep anyone out of paradise.

People, don't believe these lies .... Read and study the Bible for yourselves .... Believe what God said. If God said it, you CAN believe it.

John 10

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

 

[vja4Him]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus decides who gets saved .... Wonder where they came up with that one ...

You see ... the enemy, Satan, is the father of lies, and he just keeps people in bondage, thinking that they might be able to make it to heaven, if this, if that ....

Don't listen to the lies of false teachings ....

Hebrews chapter seven:

25Therefore he is able to save completely[a] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Jesus saves completely .... not partially, or temporarily. Salvation is not temporary. God doesn't go back on His Word ... He keeps His promises, and He promises us eternal life.

Romans 10:9-10, “9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.â€

 

[vja4Him]

Romans 10:9-10

9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

When you confess Jesus is Lord, you will obey all His commandments. You should not dismiss the work Jesus gives us to do if you honor Him as your Lord.

Jesus repeats many times to be faithful to Him until the end, friend.

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Shad -- You are adding to the scripture. It simply says:

Romans 10:9-10, “9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.â€

Yes, we should strive to keep the commandments, even the Ten Commandments. But nobody can keep the Law, nobody, not you, myself, or anyone else. Not even the most holy person who ever lived (except Jesus).

You see, you are missing one very important thing.

Romans 8:2

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

We are set free from the law of sin and death. That doesn't mean that we are free do just do whatever we want. Some people may live like that, but either they are not saved and never were saved, or God is still working in them, as He is still working on all of us, perfecting us, conforming us to His image ....