SALVATION

[shad]

Confess his name before My Father and before His angels: The text does not state that any believer will have his name blotted out of the Book of Life (see Luke 10:20). Rather, the faithful believer will be resoundingly confessed before the saints, the angels, and the Father by the Son (see Matt. 10:32, 33; 2 Tim. 2:12). To have the Lord publicly cofess one's name is to have the Lord's approval of one's character and service (see Matt. 10:32, 33; 1 Tim. 2:12, 13).

(Nelson Study Bible Commentary)

You continually seeking the lope holes. There is no loop holes in Jesus' Salvation. If He is your Lord, you will respect and honor every thing that He says and commands.

.

 

[francisdesales]

The teaching that you can lose your salvation is causing many people to stumble, and doubt their salvation, and like you said, live in fear, even terror, every moment of their life.

Not in the slightest. I don't live in fear since I know that as I remain in Christ, I will be saved. The fact is that the bible doesn't guarantee eternal life to anyone UNLESS they are in Christ. If a person is not in Christ, they cannot be saved, unless you are aware of ANOTHER name by which we can be saved???

Paul didn't seem to be afraid, but he did realize that the possibility existed that he could be disqualified, as in 1 Cor 9. He then goes on to point out, by the story of the Jews in the desert, that WE can also fall. But this is not a cause of fear, just an exhortation to remain awake, beware, do not fall away, continue in Christ.

I've seen people like that, Christians, who think that they haven't done enough good works yet ... They must go knock on a few more doors, pass out more tracks, get more people into their church, get more people to tithe, get people to pray louder, harder, longer, always placing more burdens upon people ....

Just DO, DO, DO, DO, DO, DO, DO, DO, more WORKS, MORE WORKS .... Not enough yet ... You slipped up ... You messed up ... Your lost. You need to repent and get saved again ....

It is sad that there are people that way. Apparently, such people have not been taught the Gospel, and there is no need to "run around and do more works". God will put us in various situations where we will be expected to make the holier choice - we have the freedom to refuse. But this is not a matter of how much we do, but how we live our lives in Christ.

Scriptures clearly point out that those Christians who do evil and do not repent cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

We continue to have the free will to do evil, even those who are saved. However, we have been given the means to reject temptation.

hn 10

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Various commentators have stated that this can refer to those Jesus PERSONALLY chose on while He walked the earth, apostles and disciples. In addition, even if this refers to today, this refers to SOMEONE ELSE snatching someone out of Jesus' hand, NOT YOU LEAVING. Same with the end of Romans 8. NOTHING can remove us from the love of God - but WE can remove ourselves from that love...

THUS, you forget about free will. God has not taken it away from us. The One who loves desires that we love Him back. Again, OSAS fails, since there is no Scriptures that really back it up. Scriptures abound that speak of falling (because of ourselves, not because of God).

Regards

 

[vja4Him]

Confess his name before My Father and before His angels: The text does not state that any believer will have his name blotted out of the Book of Life (see Luke 10:20). Rather, the faithful believer will be resoundingly confessed before the saints, the angels, and the Father by the Son (see Matt. 10:32, 33; 2 Tim. 2:12). To have the Lord publicly cofess one's name is to have the Lord's approval of one's character and service (see Matt. 10:32, 33; 1 Tim. 2:12, 13).

(Nelson Study Bible Commentary)

You continually seeking the lope holes. There is no loop holes in Jesus' Salvation. If He is your Lord, you will respect and honor every thing that He says and commands.

.

I have the utmost respect for my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Are you implying otherwise ... ???

 

[vja4Him]

Francisdesales -- If you really believe that your salvation is not secure, then you are no better off than anyone in the cults. And I pitty you, and pray that you will come to know that you are truely saved by the grace of God.

I appreciate your prayers, but I don't need your false pity, thank you...

My salvation is "secure" today, but it is not guaranteed into the distant future.

Then your salvation in Christ is really not secure (at least from your perspective). If you are truely saved, then whether you believe (understand) it or not, your salvation IS secure and guaranteed in Jesus Christ.

face reality, not a cozy little world of imagination where I am perfect and cannot fail or turn away from God. I realize that I have free will and I CAN turn away from God in the future, just as those men mentioned in 2 Peter 2 who RETURNED to a life of perdition. I, TOO, can return to such a sitution, worse off than before, if I am overconfident, as you are.

And this is where Jesus comes in, to help us along our pathway in this life ... We all will face trials, temptations, troubles, tribulations, problems, sickness, challenges, etc.

And when we stumble and fall, Jesus is there to pick us up. He (Jesus) is our Mediator, and He will forgive us our tresspasses. You don't have to go through your life, wondering if you might lose your salvation tomorrow, or whenever.

If you are one of His, then you will always be one of His .... You can rest assured in His promises. God is not a liar. the devil is a liar, and the father of lies, and he wants you to doubt your salvation, and always feel like you just aren't going to make it into heaven ...

 

[francisdesales]

Oh yes, I believe! Those who believe that if they don't walk a perfect walk, blameless, holy, do lots of good works, they will lose their salvation, then repent, and get their salvation back, they are saying that Christ's atonement on the cross was not sufficient!

So, they have to crucify Jesus again and again and again .... over and over and over ... crucify Jesus over and over .... Add some more works, as if the work of Christ's atonement was not good enough ....

That looks like blasphemy to me ... !!! Yes, it is blasphemy ... !!!

Your theology is incomplete and unscriptural... As much as you THINK this supports Jesus Christ's work on the cross, the FACT of the matter is that it leads to the idea of universal salvation and destroys Christianity as a means of coming to Christ.

"Jesus did it all for me" - which is found nowhere in the bible...

Let's look at this "theology", which sounds very respectful of Christ, but destroys what He established and commanded the apostles to do - continue HIS ministry in the world...

WHY would Jesus send the Apostles out to preach the Gospel?
WHY would Jesus give the power to forgive sins to the apostles AFTER the death and resurrection?
WHY send the Holy Spirit?
WHY be exhorted to have faith, hope, or love?

WHY does it matter if we believe or do ANYTHING, since "Christ's atonement was good enough".... This crazy notion logically leads to the destruction of Christianity - since if we take this to its logical conclusion, there is NO NEED to obey God, live in Christ, have faith working in love, and all of that. Reading the Bible and following its dictates are pointless...

THIS is what the notion that "Christ's atonement was good enough" leads to. Christ's death is "good enough" - AND SO, man doesn't have to do anything! NOT EVEN HAVE FAITH...

THUS, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and any other mass murderer are in heaven, since "Christ's death was good enough".

You totally misunderstand the Gospel, my friend...

 

[vja4Him]

Sorry to burst your over-confident bubble, but it is better to live in truth, than a lie and pretend you cannot fall. Thus, you will maintain a more watchful attitude, knowing you COULD fail, as Paul states in 1 Cor 10:12...

BEWARE is not said because we CANNOT fall, my brother...

Regards

You haven't burst my bubble ... !!! Don't worry about me. I KNOW that my salvation is secure in Christ, today, tomorrow, and for all eternity.

John 10

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

And, yes, we will fall, everyone ... But we have a promise:

Psalm 37

23The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

24Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.

 

[vja4Him]

Just focus on what this poster is doing here right in front of your eyes. Just like a magician, with slight of hand , he is trying to make the Word say the OPPOSITE of what it says. Look carefully, because this is a wonderful example of exactly how deception has come into the church throughout all times. JUST LIKE THIS.

Now, all he is waiting for is for somebody , who's knowledge is little, to believe him and ..........he's got you! He is actually saying : You are stupid, I can make you believe that "not blot out" means"I will include their names" . (Like God has some difficulty with language and always needs a man to explain what He REALLY meant.) NO: God meant just what He said! Read it for yourselves.

blessings
Cornelius

Thank you Cornelius, for slandering me, right here, in front of everyone! You need to repent, and apologize to me, here publicly ....

I have not called anyone stupid, and you know that. You see, this is what happens, everytime, when someone who espouses false teaching, they get backed into a corner, and like a wild animal, they lash out, calling names, accusing, blaming, slandering ....

I will not play your game.

If you have really studied the Bible (and I'm assuming you have, at least some), then you knwo very well there are many metaphors and allegories in the Bible.

Nice try, but you don't get any brownie points this time!

 

[francisdesales]

Then your salvation in Christ is really not secure (at least from your perspective). If you are truely saved, then whether you believe (understand) it or not, your salvation IS secure and guaranteed in Jesus Christ.

The Bible doesn't make that promise, you do with "OSAS"... Then, you TAKE IT AWAY when "you" babble about "you never were saved to begin with".

YOU CALL THAT SECURITY??? At least I know I am saved today. You cannot know that, since in the future, it may be judged that you "never were saved". Thus, your ranting about "being saved" is and was false. YOU WERE DUPED into thinking you were saved today, when in 2012, an evil action will show that you were "never saved"...

:crazy

AS LONG as I remain in Christ, my salvation is secure and guaranteed. What part of that don't you understand???

And this is where Jesus comes in, to help us along our pathway in this life ... We all will face trials, temptations, troubles, tribulations, problems, sickness, challenges, etc.

OF course Jesus comes in to help us. But we have the ability to fall away and LEAVE Christ. I never said that Christ would not aid me in times of need. He respects my free will and doesn't force me to love Him.

And when we stumble and fall, Jesus is there to pick us up. He (Jesus) is our Mediator, and He will forgive us our tresspasses. You don't have to go through your life, wondering if you might lose your salvation tomorrow, or whenever.

Yes, IF we ask for forgiveness, IF we ask for Him to pick us up, IF we pray to Him and so forth... God forgives those who ask for forgiveness.

If you are one of His, then you will always be one of His .... You can rest assured in His promises. God is not a liar. the devil is a liar, and the father of lies, and he wants you to doubt your salvation, and always feel like you just aren't going to make it into heaven ...

WELL, the interesting thing is that OSAS "gives" and OSAS "takes away" one's salvation.

Who knows, maybe your salvation will be taken away - oh, excuse me - you will have never had had it...

Some security... :biglaugh

Regards

 

[vja4Him]

Revelation 3:5-6

5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

The white garments probably symbolize the Lord's recognition of godly character and faithful service in this life (v. 4; 6:11; 19:7, 8). White is the color of the garments the redeemed will wear in the Lord's presence (7:13, 14).

The Book of Life is the list of the eternally redeemed (20:12, 15).

To not blot out is a figure of speech, affirming a positive by negating its opposite. Thus it means, "I will include their names." Blot out likely alludes to Ex. 32:32, 33, where God says He will blot out sinners, but not faithful ones like Moses, from His Book. Christ will make sure the faithful believer's name and works are not erased, but remembered and honored.

Confess his name before My Father and before His angels: The text does not state that any believer will have his name blotted out of the Book of Life (see Luke 10:20). Rather, the faithful believer will be resoundingly confessed before the saints, the angels, and the Father by the Son (see Matt. 10:32, 33; 2 Tim. 2:12). To have the Lord publicly cofess one's name is to have the Lord's approval of one's character and service (see Matt. 10:32, 33; 1 Tim. 2:12, 13).

(Nelson Study Bible Commentary)

What Cornelius failed to show, is where the commentary came from. Not me folks. I posted the reference clearly. Perhaps Cornelius conveniently left that out, to try and make me look bad, as if I am the person making this all up .... Hmm ...

 

[francisdesales]

You haven't burst my bubble ... !!! Don't worry about me. I KNOW that my salvation is secure in Christ, today, tomorrow, and for all eternity.

UNTIL you are declared "never was saved to begin with" by the OSAS police...

Isn't this sinking in, how you actually have NO security, not even today, because no matter HOW MUCH you THINK you are in Christ, two years from now may prove that all to have been a delusion. Thus, your proclamations will later to be determined to be false...

It is a ridiculous thought.

EVEN IF I were to fall away in ten years, I KNOW I am saved now. YOU, on the other hand, don't even have that...

John 10

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

NO one with the exception of yourself. WE can "snatch ourselves" out of God's Hand... Already discussed this...

And, yes, we will fall, everyone ... But we have a promise:

Psalm 37

23The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.

24Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.

[/quote]

I have already quoted Ezekiel 18, which destroys your INTERPRETATION of Psalm 37.

HERE is the correct interpretation...

AS LONG as a man remains "good", "righteous", etc, even if her were to be cast down (materially cast down by one's opponents and enemies), God would still uphold him. There is no problem here. This verse, as many others in the Psalms, speaks of trusting that God would uphold them in TEMPORAL situations. The good man is not cast down spiritually, that is a contradiction... When a good man is cast down spiritually, he is NOT a good man!!!

Regards

 

[Cornelius]

I really do not care where the commentary comes from. You are responsible for what you post , because that is what you are saying.

Whoever wrote this untruth is also responsible for deceiving you. But you are repeating it here for all to see. You are by way of your actions, telling me that my intelligence is definitely lacking, if you can believe that I will fall for such an obvious twisting of God's Word.

Any person who can read WITH comprehension can tell you that , that verse is saying, that God will not blot out the overcomer from His Book of Life. Now I know it does not fit your doctrine, and I know through experience that people will spend a lot of energy twisting and twisting scripture to try and make it say what they want.

You really, really want it to say: God will not blot out the name of those who do not overcome. but it does not say it. Plus you would love it , if the word "blot out" was rather not there, because that is an action that your religion denies and tell others "Its not possible to blot out "

Well brother, its possible ! God says it. I believe it.

 

[vja4Him]

Satan's Deception ....

Today, it appears that satan's best attack is to get us into a false sense of security, to remove the idea that sin is a grevious offense, to remove the idea that he even exists - or has any power.

Actually, an even bigger deception ... We can clearly see the many cults around the world, which far outnumber Christianity, have the majority of people deceived into thinking that they can somehow work their way into heaven, but chanting, meditating, doing good works, giving money, offering sacrifices ....

And many people are very aware of the evil forces .... which is why so many people offer sacrifices, to appease the evil spirits.

I would agree with you though, that there are those who do have a false sense of security. They think that by going to church, giving tithes, offerings, serving in the church, reading their Bible, even praying, and some even working miracles, that they have a place reserved for them in heaven ....

Another deception from Satan is to blind people to the pure love and forgiveness of God. Islam has deceived many people into beleiving that God is not a personal and loving God, but rather you must appease their god by doing works, and still you cannot be certain that you will enter paradise.

 

[Cornelius]

Restaurant invitation and rules:

Everybody is invited to come to the Little Inn tonight. You , who have been invited, must know that you do not have to book, because your names have already been written into the guest book for tonight. But you have to know that the dress code for tonight is WHITE ONLY. All those who come here tonight, who is not dressed in white, their names will be blotted out of our guest book and you will not be allowed to enter.

by authority of Management

So you want to tell me, that you will dress in black and then tell them: You really meant I can also enter even though I am breaking the rules.

 

[vja4Him]

so clearly, you are attacking something you know little about.

You are only assuming that I know little of what I am speaking .... You are mistaken.

I know what I am talking about. I have endured much in life of 52 (almost 53) years here on this Earth .... Drug addiction, alcohol addiction, addiction to cigarettes, pipes, cigars, chewing tobacco, and much more .....

The Lord has been faithful, even when I was not faithful .... He is a loving Father, who forgives, and does not condemn us, when Jesus is our Savior. We don't have to do the works of sacrifice, because Jesus paid the ultimate sacrifice, once for all, for our sins, past, present, and future.

 

[vja4Him]

Very convenient twisting, indeed. You are ignoring Jesus' direct commandments and you say Jesus is your Lord. Jesus hates lip servers.

Shad -- Are you implying that I am only a lip server ... ???

 

[vja4Him]

Rewards for Serving the Lord ...

Paul didn't seem to be afraid, but he did realize that the possibility existed that he could be disqualified, as in 1 Cor 9.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27

24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

This passage is not talking about losing one's salvation. The prize, the crown, is not salvation, but rewards for serving the Lord. You know the Bible does speak of rewards for the believer ... ???

 

[Cornelius]

Cornelius said:

Who are you to judge ? They were saved. They served the Lord and then fell away. The same thing can happen to you and I. Its only God's grace that keep us standing

You do realise youve dropped yourself right in it with statement bruv. :rolling

What a contradiction

There is no contradiction here. God's grace are for the obedient. If I were to rebel against God and start walking after the flesh, He can and will remove His grace from me and allow me to go the way I want. But when He allows me to follow Him, and I obey, His grace will keep me standing.

A Christian is secure in their salvation, when they are found IN CHRIST. But nobody can claim salvation outside of Christ, no matter where you started............if we stay the course until the end, we will be saved.

 

[Cornelius]

Re: Rewards for Serving the Lord ...

Paul didn't seem to be afraid, but he did realize that the possibility existed that he could be disqualified, as in 1 Cor 9.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27

24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

This passage is not talking about losing one's salvation. The prize, the crown, is not salvation, but rewards for serving the Lord. You know the Bible does speak of rewards for the believer ... ???

Jam 1:12 Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

 

[Cornelius]

1Cr 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Castaway :adokimos
1) not standing the test, not approved
a) properly used of metals and coins
2) that which does not prove itself such as it ought
a) unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate

Reprobate:
n.
1. A morally unprincipled person.
2. One who is predestined to damnation.
adj.
1. Morally unprincipled; shameless.
2. Rejected by God and without hope of salvation.
tr.v. rep·ro·bat·ed, rep·ro·bat·ing, rep·ro·bates
1. To disapprove of; condemn.
2. To abandon to eternal damnation. Used of God.

You guys have a LOT of scriptures that are against you. But I know you will work all day and work all night to prove that dear Paul could not possibly have meant what he said. Oh the horror to even think that Paul could have been reprobated ! :o IMPOSSIBLE........Google, Google, Google....

 

[vja4Him]

hn 10

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Various commentators have stated that this can refer to those Jesus PERSONALLY chose on while He walked the earth, apostles and disciples.

John 10:27-29

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

I believe the scriptures do apply to us, today, right now. Jesus said that His sheep hear His voice, and He knows them, and they follow Him. That certainly does apply to me. I am one of His sheep, and I hope and pray that you are too!

If verse 27 pertains to us today, then verse 28 certainly does also pertain to us today, and verse 29. You can't just throw those verses out, and say they don't apply to us today.