SALVATION

[Cornelius]

1Cr 15:1 Now I make known unto you brethren, the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye received, wherein also ye stand,


1Cr 15:2 by which also ye are saved,............ if........... ye hold fast the word which I preached unto you,................. except ye believed in vain.

 

[RichardBurger]

If you do not believe in eternal security then you must believe in works. It is that simple. If you believe in works then you are not saved by God's grace but by your works.

 

[shad]

If you do not believe in eternal security then you must believe in works. It is that simple. If you believe in works then you are not saved by God's grace but by your works.

You seem to be one of pick and choosing christians. Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandment". Keeping His commandments is all work, friend.

.

 

[Cornelius]

If you do not believe in eternal security then you must believe in works. It is that simple. If you believe in works then you are not saved by God's grace but by your works.

Jam 2:24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.

 

[glorydaz]

1Cr 15:1 Now I make known unto you brethren, the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye received, wherein also ye stand,


1Cr 15:2 by which also ye are saved,............ if........... ye hold fast the word which I preached unto you,................. except ye believed in vain.

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Yes, people can hear the gospel and believe what it's saying, but if they don't go on and get saved they'll have believed in vain. Accepting the gospel message is not salvation...it's the means to salvation. The work "also" speaks of the adding on to the hearing by getting saved.

 

[glorydaz]

If you do not believe in eternal security then you must believe in works. It is that simple. If you believe in works then you are not saved by God's grace but by your works.

You seem to be one of pick and choosing christians. Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandment". Keeping His commandments is all work, friend.

.

The work is the fruit of the Spirit...God's work through us...not ours.
We can work all we want...it won't get us saved.
We're saved by the grace of God, and then He can work through us.
Keeping His commandments is showing forth the love of Christ in our daily walk with Him.

 

[Cornelius]

If you do not believe in eternal security then you must believe in works. It is that simple. If you believe in works then you are not saved by God's grace but by your works.

You seem to be one of pick and choosing christians. Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandment". Keeping His commandments is all work, friend.

.

The work is the fruit of the Spirit...God's work through us...not ours.
We can work all we want...it won't get us saved.
We're saved by the grace of God, and then He can work through us.
Keeping His commandments is showing forth the love of Christ in our daily walk with Him.

That is right. And if we stop bearing the fruit of salvation..........


1Cr 15:2 ........... if........... ye hold fast the word which I preached unto you,................. except ye believed in vain.

 

[glorydaz]

If you do not believe in eternal security then you must believe in works. It is that simple. If you believe in works then you are not saved by God's grace but by your works.

Jam 2:24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.

James is saying works are the evidence of true faith. Even the devils believe.
Those with true faith will have the fruit of the Spirit...the works that are evidenced are His works, through us, as we walk in obedience. By their fruits you will know them.
If we don't show forth any evidence of Christ in us, we don't have true faith.

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

 

[glorydaz]

The work is the fruit of the Spirit...God's work through us...not ours.
We can work all we want...it won't get us saved.
We're saved by the grace of God, and then He can work through us.
Keeping His commandments is showing forth the love of Christ in our daily walk with Him.

That is right. And if we stop bearing the fruit of salvation..........


1Cr 15:2 ........... if........... ye hold fast the word which I preached unto you,................. except ye believed in vain.

Those who believed the Gospel message, but did not go on to salvation, are those who believed in vain...just as the devils believe in vain.

What of those abiding in Christ who are not bearing fruit?
What does the husbandman do with a grape vine that has fallen down?
He lifts it up and ties it in place.

The Greek word used here for "taken away" is airo.

to raise up, elevate, lift up
to raise from the ground, take up: stones
to raise upwards, elevate, lift up: the hand
to draw up: a fish

1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

 

[Cornelius]

The word used here is "works" not fruit of the Spirit. James is saying that if we have faith, what we DO will point to the fact. Without these works, our faith is in fact dead. He is saying that a person who believes something, will act like a person that believes something.

That "act" is the works of faith. It is logical, because if you tell me you believe that the fire will not hurt you, then show me by walking through it. (That is the work of faith! ) Faith without that , is dead faith (only words) James is saying, if you say you have faith.......show it by HOW you act. IN other words, if you say the fire will not hurt you and you do not want to actually walk through it, then you only have words and no faith. The person who says something is so......must walk it. If not: That faith is dead.
am 2:17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.

So James want us to SHOW our faith , through our actions Jam 2:18 Yea, a man will say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith apart from [thy] works, and I by my works will show thee [my] faith. (meaning: I will walk through the fire (works) and then you try to convince me about your faith, if you do not want to walk through it )

 

[Cornelius]

Another example:

I phone you and tell you I just deposited $1000 into your account. You tell a friend: "I believe Cornelius has just deposited $1000 into my account !"

Friend: Lets buy something , do you have your checkbook with you?

You: Yes I do, but yesterday I did not have any money in my account
Friend: But Cornelius just deposited $1000 into your account, don't you believe him?
You: Of course I believe him.
Friend: Then act on your faith and write a check for a $1000 .
You: I believe him, but yesterday I did not have any money.
Friend: AHHH you do NOT believe he actually deposited the money ! Your actions tells me that you do not have faith in the fact that Cornelius actually deposited that money !
You: No, I really believe he did, I have faith in the fact!
Friend : Then SHOW ME and write the check !

Faith without works is dead !

 

[glorydaz]

The word used here is "works" not fruit of the Spirit. James is saying that if we have faith, what we DO will point to the fact. Without these works, our faith is in fact dead. He is saying that a person who believes something, will act like a person that believes something.

That "act" is the works of faith. It is logical, because if you tell me you believe that the fire will not hurt you, then show me by walking through it. (That is the work of faith! ) Faith without that , is dead faith (only words) James is saying, if you say you have faith.......show it by HOW you act. IN other words, if you say the fire will not hurt you and you do not want to actually walk through it, then you only have words and no faith. The person who says something is so......must walk it. If not: That faith is dead.
am 2:17 Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.

So James want us to SHOW our faith , through our actions Jam 2:18 Yea, a man will say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith apart from [thy] works, and I by my works will show thee [my] faith. (meaning: I will walk through the fire (works) and then you try to convince me about your faith, if you do not want to walk through it )

Then you're giving yourself credit for the work, when it isn't yours.
If you abide in Christ, you allow Him to work through you.
We don't "show our faith" through our actions, we allow Christ to "show forth" His work through us.

Christ is the treasure of our heart..we bring forth good, not by our efforts, but because of Christ in us. The work is His...we do nothing good of ourselves.

am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

We can't put the cart before the horse. We follow after, and allow Him to do the work.

 

[glorydaz]

Another example:

I phone you and tell you I just deposited $1000 into your account. You tell a friend: "I believe Cornelius has just deposited $1000 into my account !"

Friend: Lets buy something , do you have your checkbook with you?

You: Yes I do, but yesterday I did not have any money in my account
Friend: But Cornelius just deposited $1000 into your account, don't you believe him?
You: Of course I believe him.
Friend: Then act on your faith and write a check for a $1000 .
You: I believe him, but yesterday I did not have any money.
Friend: AHHH you do NOT believe he actually deposited the money ! Your actions tells me that you do not have faith in the fact that Cornelius actually deposited that money !
You: No, I really believe he did, I have faith in the fact!
Friend : Then SHOW ME and write the check !

Faith without works is dead !

The wise course would be to wait on the Lord until He told you how to use that money. :biglaugh

The works James is speaking of the are the evidences of Christ in us...the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
We can claim anything we like, and we can give and do great things in our own strength seeking to please the Lord...or...we can rest in Him and allow Him to work through us. The first involves the will of man, the second involves man surrendering His will to God and then walking in obedience to His will.
When you look at a man who does all kinds of good for his fellow man, and then you look at a man who shows forth the love of God towards his fellow man, you'll see the difference between the two. One strives, the other rests.

 

[Cornelius]

Then you're giving yourself credit for the work, when it isn't yours.
If you abide in Christ, you allow Him to work through you.
We don't "show our faith" through our actions, we allow Christ to "show forth" His work through us.

.

I cannot get the credit, because I have been crucified with Christ and no longer live. Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that [life] which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, [the faith] which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.

A dead person cannot take credit for anything. Christ, Who lives in me, is doing the works of faith through me, that I was pointing out to you.

 

[glorydaz]

Then you're giving yourself credit for the work, when it isn't yours.
If you abide in Christ, you allow Him to work through you.
We don't "show our faith" through our actions, we allow Christ to "show forth" His work through us.

.

I cannot get the credit, because I have been crucified with Christ and no longer live. Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that [life] which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, [the faith] which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.

A dead person cannot take credit for anything. Christ, Who lives in me, is doing the works of faith through me, that I was pointing out to you.

Then it sounds like we're saying the same thing.

 

[Cornelius]

Our bodies are only the vehicle that carries Christ. He is the One that heals people, when we lay our hands on them. He is the One that drives the demons out, when we confront them in His Name. We have His mind, the mind of Christ. The faith in us, is His faith. He is our strength and through Him we can do all things, because with God nothing is impossible.

If we indeed believe that Christ is in us, we will walk as He walked.(works 1Jo 2:6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked. Mar 16:18 they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Luk 4:40 And when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.

 

[vja4Him]

If you do not believe in eternal security then you must believe in works. It is that simple. If you believe in works then you are not saved by God's grace but by your works.

Amen! And those who are counting on their works to save them are still under the Law. They have not yet been set free from the Law of sin and grace ....

 

[Cornelius]

Then it sounds like we're saying the same thing.

We agree on many points, but not on OSAS If we turn around from this, we then will walk in the opposite direction. We will then follow the flesh, which will take us out of Christ, out of the mind of Christ, out of the Word. The promises are only YES ...........IN Christ. We can start this walk in Christ, but then find that the price is too high to pay and then we stop following Jesus to the cross. That stops us from being a disciple. Obedience to the Word leads to salvation.

Jhn 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life. Mat 7:24 Every one therefore that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them,.........Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned..........Jhn 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent meJhn 17:8 for the words which thou gavest me I have given unto them;

 

[vja4Him]

Pleasing the Lord ....

If you do not believe in eternal security then you must believe in works. It is that simple. If you believe in works then you are not saved by God's grace but by your works.

You seem to be one of pick and choosing christians. Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandment". Keeping His commandments is all work, friend.

.

Shad -- I agree with you wholeheartedly ... that we should keep His commandments. But not for our salvation. True Christians will WANT to do good works because they WANT to please the Lord, and be obedient, but NOT to gain merit or acceptance from God, in order to bank on heaven.

 

[Cornelius]

If you do not believe in eternal security then you must believe in works. It is that simple. If you believe in works then you are not saved by God's grace but by your works.

Amen! And those who are counting on their works to save them are still under the Law. They have not yet been set free from the Law of sin and grace ....

You are misunderstanding what we are talking about. We are not talking about pre-salvation and somebody that wants to "work" for salvation. We are talking when somebody has started the walk, that came through grace (not works) .Now some will say that after we start to be born from above, that we need not "work" with God , and that indeed we need NO works after we have started this walk. Well, those who say that , must still learn what this means: Jam 2:24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Please take note that these works mentioned here are the works that proves to God that indeed you have faith (or not) You are not just called upon to say you believe one of the promises, you have to also ACT on that faith and WALK your belief. If not........your faith is dead.