SALVATION

[glorydaz]

Re: Pleasing the Lord ....

Shad -- I agree with you wholeheartedly ... that we should keep His commandments. But not for our salvation. True Christians will WANT to do good works because they WANT to please the Lord, and be obedient, but NOT to gain merit or acceptance from God, in order to bank on heaven.

So Jesus' commandments aren't to be followed unless we WANT to follow them?

You guys are making excuses one after another by saying you dont need works for salvation. If you WANT to do them, why do you keep giving reasons why we DON'T need to do them??

You're twisting what He said.
He said because we want to please God...not want to follow His commandments.
If you think you need to work for your salvation, then you'll fail.
You can not save yourself no matter how hard you work.

It's not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saves us.
Those born of God take on the mind of Christ. We know our Father's voice and we obey.
It isn't what we have done, but what Christ did for us. That's why it's called a gift. God doesn't give us a gift with strings attached...which is what you claim.

 

[vja4Him]

There is both His faith and our faith in Him.
Two different purposes...two different faiths.
The faith of Christ is more appropriately called the faithfulness of Christ.
His faith is imputed to us like His righteousness is.

The faith of Christ is the faithfulness of Christ whereupon we believe or don't believe...as the case may be. His faith is implanted in us as we hear the Gospel. Faith cometh by hearing. Then we can increase our faith as we walk in the Word and subject ourselves to His will.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

[quote="Galatians 2:16":326e5x0d] - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

[/quote:326e5x0d]

Thanks for clarifying the issue of faith.

 

[vja4Him]

Re: The Cross of Jesus ...

We can start this walk in Christ, but then find that the price is too high to pay and then we stop following Jesus to the cross.

Something isn't right here .... I don't need to keep following Jesus to the cross. I come to the cross of Jesus for salvation one time. Jesus was crucified one time. We don't need to crucify Jesus over and over ....

Romans 10:9-10, “9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.â€

You're correct...What isn't right is to continue following Jesus to the cross.
We're crucified with Christ once...just as He was.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Likewise, we are raised with Him into newness of life...born again. You can't be truly saved until you're born again...raised from the dead.
[quote="Romans 6:5-11":19v0azir]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[/quote:19v0azir]

That is where one of the serious flaws is with the belief that one can lose their salvation.

 

[vja4Him]

Re: Justified In Man's Eyes ....

We are only justified by our works in the eyes of man, not God. God looks at the blood of Jesus Christ covering our sins. We are saved by the work that Jesus Christ has already finished.

Otherwise, the Bible would tell us plainly to confess that Jesus is Lord and add some good works to that, then you will be saved. BUT ... That is NOT what the Bible says or teaches.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Our salvation is NOT by works. However, in man's eyes, we are justified by our works. There is a huge difference ....

Amen. Paul spoke of justification before God, and James speaks of justification before men.
You nailed it, and all of scripture backs you up.

This is another one of the stumbling blocks for those adhering to the belief that one can lose their salvation. True Christians will have works (although we may not see them, or not very many), but their works are not saving them.

 

[glorydaz]

Thanks for clarifying the issue of faith.

My pleasure. The Lord has led me down that path already.
Our faith can never get stale, can it? The fountains just never stop flowing.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: Justified In Man's Eyes ....

This is another one of the stumbling blocks for those adhering to the belief that one can lose their salvation. True Christians will have works (although we may not see them, or not very many), but their works are not saving them.

And you know what, brother? We shouldn't see them.

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

One of the biggest dangers with thinking we have to show our faith by our works is that pride can creep in unawares ....whether we want it to or not.

 

[vja4Him]

Thanks for clarifying the issue of faith.

My pleasure. The Lord has led me down that path already.
Our faith can never get stale, can it? The fountains just never stop flowing.

Amen!

 

[vja4Him]

Re: Justified In Man's Eyes ....

This is another one of the stumbling blocks for those adhering to the belief that one can lose their salvation. True Christians will have works (although we may not see them, or not very many), but their works are not saving them.

And you know what, brother? We shouldn't see them.

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

One of the biggest dangers with thinking we have to show our faith by our works is that pride can creep in unawares ....whether we want it to or not.

Exactly, and that is one thing that really irks me ... I've been to so many churches that want to always SEE your good works. But when I read the Bible, the Holy Spirit convicts me that I should NOT be showing off my good works. Sure, some people will know some things I do, but I don't have to prove anything to anyone, not men or God.

God already knows everything, but people who are always trying to prove themself, by showing off their good works are not walking humbly before the Lord. They are like the Pharisees, who must stand up, and proclaim to everyone to notice their good works. They will have their reward from men.

The Bible tells us to be humble, and not to show off. We will have our reward in heaven, that is for certain.

 

[shad]

Re: Falsely Accusing People ....

I never said that, and I haven't seen anyone else saying that here .....

You guys have been repeating that " works does not save you". Why do you have to say it over and over?

.

 

[glorydaz]

Re: Falsely Accusing People ....

I never said that, and I haven't seen anyone else saying that here .....

You guys have been repeating that " works does not save you". Why do you have to say it over and over?

.

Because works do not save you. If we thought you were listening, we might stop.

 

[shad]

Re: Falsely Accusing People ....

I never said that, and I haven't seen anyone else saying that here .....

You guys have been repeating that " works does not save you". Why do you have to say it over and over?

.

Because works do not save you. If we thought you were listening, we might stop.

You dont seem to appreciate and honor what Jesus commands. Why would you think Jesus gives us so many commandments if we dont have to be obedient to Him?

You haven't answered this question.

Do you think you are saved without being obedient to Jesus' commandments?

 

[glorydaz]

Re: Falsely Accusing People ....

You dont seem to appreciate and honor what Jesus commands. Why would you think Jesus gives us so many commandments if we dont have to be obedient to Him?

You haven't answered this question.

Do you think you are saved without being obedient to Jesus' commandments?

I will say ...once again....no one has ever said we aren't to be obedient.
Being obedient is not works. Being obedient is allowing Christ to use us as He will.

Now, you tell me, do you need works in order to be saved? Or to stay saved?
Do you understand the difference between works and fruit?
Do you even listen to what's been said?
We've had pages and pages and you still ask the same....how should I say this.. ..simplistic questions, and you still make the same ludicrous charges. We're talking salvation here. Do you think you have to work to earn your salvation or to stay saved? See, two can play that game. ;)

 

[Cornelius]

Re: The Cross of Jesus ...

We can start this walk in Christ, but then find that the price is too high to pay and then we stop following Jesus to the cross.

Something isn't right here .... I don't need to keep following Jesus to the cross.

Luk 9:23 And he said to [them] all, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Can you see that you are wrong ?

 

[Cornelius]

Re: Falsely Accusing People ....

I will say ...once again....no one has ever said we aren't to be obedient.

What will happen if you are not obedient but willfully go against God ?

 

[Cornelius]

Re: Falsely Accusing People ....

Now, you tell me, do you need works in order to be saved? Or to stay saved?

Which works are you talking about: Romans or James?

 

[Cornelius]

Abraham was justified by his faith because He believed God....
He was reckoned righteous long before he lifted the knife.
Because he believed God and was already justified by his faith, he obeyed God, just as we all do who truly believe.

No that is not what the Bible tells us about it. I have already proven through Scripture that Abraham was told after he lifted the knife: ....for NOW I know..........(After Abraham lifted the knife)


Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.

 

[francisdesales]

Even our good works are not ours .... For we can do nothing without Christ.

It doesn't follow... When I am in Christ, I am doing good deeds, they are indeed my deeds - but I cannot do them without Christ, I cannot brag. Just the same, WE are credited with righteousness because of Christ's actions. We are a new creation in Christ, so they ARE our good works.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

No clue what you are talking about... Some vague statement about a false prophecy is just a childish tactic to try to gain some perceived moral high ground, because you, of course, are not "falling for the false prophecy", while keeping it hidden and unknown gives it a more sinister note to the whole statement...

You conveniently left out 2012 ... Hmmm ... wonder what that might be ... ???

2012 was just a randomly chosen date. I could care less that the Mayans chose not to make a calendar beyond that year...

Regards

 

[shad]

Re: Falsely Accusing People ....

I will say ...once again....no one has ever said we aren't to be obedient.

Let me ask you this, do you think churchgoers who say Jesus is Lord yet not showing any evidence of being His servants are still saved?

.

 

[vja4Him]

Re: Falsely Accusing People ....

I never said that, and I haven't seen anyone else saying that here .....

You guys have been repeating that " works does not save you". Why do you have to say it over and over?

.

Because you guys are continually proclaiming unbiblical teachings that are leading many people astray, away from the truth of the Bible, and into confusion, doubting their own salvation, even doubting the Bible and God ... !!!