Saturday Or Sunday Church ?

[SputnikBoy]

Just don't put this Saturday/Sunday thing on me, because the Holy Spirit has shown me that the New Covenant is to rest in Jesus. He has done it all and I only need to walk in the belief that He has made me righteous.

And, righteous would mean that your motives and actions are morally justifiable. No offense to the Holy Spirit that you say you have residing within you but he TOO seems to have misinterpreted Hebrews 4:1-9. As long as you rest in Jesus, commands 1-4 will be a matter of course. Even nonChristians don't murder, steal, etc. so commands 5-10 would be first motivated by the love of God commands. In other words 1-4 + 5-10 = complete application of the love commands involving God and neighbor.

The New Covenant, eh? Today's mainstream Christian seems to have made a religion out of that. The New Covenant devoid of the Law and The Prophets is NO COVENANT AT ALL! Just what IS a covenant? Well, in this case it's an agreement between you and God. You require something of God (Salvation) - He requires something of you. Obedience! If you want to call that 'work' ...well, that's up to you. To some it's called 'honoring' that agreement and being faithful. Obedience is the result of 'resting in Jesus' as you put it.

Finally, the continued implication from you and others, Kwag, that as long as one promotes obedience to God's commands they are unChristian, is downright offensive as well as being completely untrue. Does this kind of offensive behavior come from the Holy Spirit too?

 

[kwag_myers]

You both have my position all wrong. I'm going to say it one more time and then I'm done with this thread. Obviously, you'd rather argue that listen to what is on my heart. Then attempt to lecture me on love.

You choose to rest on a specific day, I choose to rest in Jesus. Jesus is my Sabbath Rest. All scripture points to Jesus. He is, after all, the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. Keeping a specific day is an act of religion, not love. Love is keeping His commandments (John 14:15).

"As a fourth point we must therefore recognize that the weekly sabbath, i.e., Saturday, is not the real sabbath. It never was, and it is not now. It is a picture or a reminder of the real sabbath. The true sabbath is a rest; the Jewish sabbath is a shadow, a picture of that rest. All the Old Testament shadows pointed to Christ. They were predictions, foreviews, of the coming of the One who would fulfill all these remarkable things. Every lamb that was brought as an offering was a shadow of the work of Christ. Every burnt offering, every bit of incense that was offered, was a picture of the fragrance of Jesus Christ. The tabernacle was a shadow of him. The high priest, in his garments and his office, was a shadow of Christ as our High Priest. Read the book of Hebrews and you will see how beautifully all this is brought out. These Old Testament shadows were looking forward to the coming of the One who would fulfill these and thus end them. When the work of Jesus Christ was finished the shadows were no longer needed." - Ray C. Stedman, Jesus is our Sabbath Rest

Jesus is my Sabbath rest and I show Him my love for Him by resting in the work that He has completed. Taking a nap in my recliner on a Sunday afternoon is not showing Him love.

 

[guibox]

"As a fourth point we must therefore recognize that the weekly sabbath, i.e., Saturday, is not the real sabbath. It never was, and it is not now. It is a picture or a reminder of the real sabbath. The true sabbath is a rest; the Jewish sabbath is a shadow, a picture of that rest. All the Old Testament shadows pointed to Christ. They were predictions, foreviews, of the coming of the One who would fulfill all these remarkable things. Every lamb that was brought as an offering was a shadow of the work of Christ. Every burnt offering, every bit of incense that was offered, was a picture of the fragrance of Jesus Christ. The tabernacle was a shadow of him. The high priest, in his garments and his office, was a shadow of Christ as our High Priest. Read the book of Hebrews and you will see how beautifully all this is brought out. These Old Testament shadows were looking forward to the coming of the One who would fulfill these and thus end them. When the work of Jesus Christ was finished the shadows were no longer needed." - Ray C. Stedman, Jesus is our Sabbath Rest

This assumption is based on three things:

1) The Sabbath was a Jewish Institution given to the Jews to symbolize the Christ

2) The Sabbath served no pragmatic function or any other purpose except to be a shadow

3) The Sabbath serves no pragmatic function for the future.

The Sabbath was introduced by God from the beginning of creation before sin even entered in the world. It wasn't given to the Jews with all their other laws to take care of the sin problem. The Sabbath is called 'the sabbath of 'The Lord thy God' and 'My holy day'. It was set apart, blessed and made holy outside man's experience.

By it's very nature, the Sabbath stands alone and is claimed and owned by God Himself.

The Sabbath was given because God knew man would need a time to take a break. This is enrforced by the very wording of the commandment. 'Six days thou shalt labor'. Do you not think in our hectic world, we don't need a day of rest? Even more so now then before!

The Sabbath was also a time and a command where His people could recognize who God is (Creator), what He has done for them (Redeemer and Savior) and a sign between the Maker and His creation.

The Sabbath was at the beginning, throughout history and fully expected to be in the New World. Far from a temporary Mosaic institution, even by the OT people expecting God to fulfill His promises of establishing a new covenant with them where He would 'put His law into their hearts'

No, my friend. To say that the Sabbath was classified in nature, purpose and function as the sacrificial laws is to ignore the ecclesiastical, soteriological and eschaetological function of the Sabbath.

 

[SputnikBoy]

You both have my position all wrong. I'm going to say it one more time and then I'm done with this thread. Obviously, you'd rather argue that listen to what is on my heart. Then attempt to lecture me on love.

I have no intention of lecturing you or anyone else on love. I don't exalt myself above anyone, in fact there are probably any number of people who are a better Christian than I am.

You choose to rest on a specific day, I choose to rest in Jesus. Jesus is my Sabbath Rest.

But this amounts to mere words ...and cryptic ones at that. It sounds almost surrealistic ...are their any actual deeds that go along with it?

All scripture points to Jesus. He is, after all, the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. Keeping a specific day is an act of religion, not love. Love is keeping His commandments (John 14:15).

Okay, kwag, let me pin you down here. What, exactly, ARE those commandments that you're keeping? You see, unless you can articulate the meaning behind that statement, these are just words without any substance. What ARE those commandments of love that you're keeping ...? Please, don't leave the thread until you've answered this question at least. I genuinely want to know what the commandments are that YOU see as a requirement for the professed Christian. And please don't respond with 'loving God and loving neighbor' as that vague response will again prompt me to ask the very same question. And that will only irritate you further.

Please state your position once and for all on this issue in a manner that we can all understand. Is this too much to ask?

 

[SputnikBoy]

Taking a nap in my recliner on a Sunday afternoon is not showing Him love.

That very statement shows the absurdity in your reasoning on this issue, kwag. For starters, there is a typically mainstream Christian 'Sunday Sabbath' stance underlying your remark and, second, you're also assuming that Sabbatarians sit around doing nothing on the Sabbath. No wonder you appear to hate the Sabbath so ...you don't understand it! The Sabbath IS a day of the week, whether you like it or not. Check your calendar. Saturday is the closing day of the seven-day weekly cycle. And, do you know where a 7-day week came from in the beginning? God, that's who!

While the individual can choose to do whatever they want on the Sabbath (there is no list of rules) there are any number of people that I know of who do nothing of the kind ...sit around doing nothing, that is. The Sabbath is a day for many on which to put the words of Isaiah 58:13-14 into practice. 'Deeds' is NOT a dirty word, even though to some of you it appears to be. While there is no list of rules, sitting around doing zilch is NOT the recommended way to honor the Sabbath Day! The Sabbath is to be a delight!

 

[Jay T]

You choose to rest on a specific day, I choose to rest in Jesus. Jesus is my Sabbath Rest. All scripture points to Jesus. He is, after all, the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us. Keeping a specific day is an act of religion, not love. Love is keeping His commandments (John 14:15).

And if..Jesus were here on earth today...HE would attend a church on Saturday...as He did centuries ago.

 

[Jay T]

All scripture points to Jesus. He is, after all, the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us.

YES !
All scripture does ..point to Jesus Christ.
And in that light...we have but to look at what Jesus said and did.
#1.) Jesus kept the 7th day sabbath, all thru his life as a man, giving us an example to follow.
Not to mention that Christ told people, all thru the Old Testament, to keep the 7th day Sabbath.

#2.) Jesus is said in the Bible to be the same....yesterday, today, and forever.
"I am the Lord, I change not"

#3.) In the Great Gospel commission:
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you...
Where did He ever mention anything, about keeping Sunday, in honor of His resurrection ?

Keeping a specific day is an act of religion, not love.

WRONG !
Read what Jesus Himself said.....
John 15:10 "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love".
NEVER make the mistake, that keeping the commandments, and love of God can be separated !!!
1 John 5:2 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous".

 

[SputnikBoy]

You choose to rest on a specific day,

. . .that 'specific day' being the one God asked of us as opposed to the counterfeit day as imposed on Christiandom by the RCC.

I choose to rest in Jesus. Jesus is my Sabbath Rest.

Just words without substance. You guys are simply regurgitating the rhetoric of others on this forum. I would suggest that none of you REALLY has a clue what 'Jesus is my Sabbath Rest' means anyway, even though you use it incessantly to imply that it means 'something deep and meaningful' to you personally.

All scripture points to Jesus. He is, after all, the Word who became flesh and dwelt among us.

Agreed.

Keeping a specific day is an act of religion, not love.

So, for that reason I take it that you don't 'keep' Sunday either? Come on now ...be honest ... :smt018

Love is keeping His commandments (John 14:15).

Except for the 4th, eh? But didn't you just tell us that keeping His commandments is an act of religion, not love? I'm confused.

 

[kwag_myers]

Show me where Jesus' conduct was different on the Jewish Sabbath than on any other day of the week. I'll save you some time, you can't. Did He only heal on the Sabbath, no. Did He only teach on the Sabbath, no.

You both keep talking about keep His commandments. On this we agree, yet you argue with me on that point alone. You fail to see that it is

HOW

we keep the Sabbath that we differ. And if you do not understand what it means to rest in Jesus, you really are naive. The whole point of the Sabbath is to rest. Do we rest from doing the Father's work, no. Jesus didn't and neither should we. If someone comes to us for healing or deliverance, to we send them away until the Sabbath? That's just plain stupid.

Faith without works is dead (James 2:17). We continue, through the power of the Holy Spirit, to do the work that the Father has called us to. This is how we rest in Jesus. He sent us the Holy Spirit (John 15:26) to give us the strength to do the work. He gave us salvation so that we are free from sin. He made us righteous so that we didn't have to work at being righteous. Jesus did all this so that we can go forth in might and take the Kingdom to the utter most parts of the world. How far do you advance the Kingdom while you're sitting on your butt one day each week?

 

[SputnikBoy]

Okay, okay, settle down ...regain your composure. :smt056

 

[kwag_myers]

Okay, okay, settle down ...regain your composure. :smt056

Keeping a specific day is an act of religion, not love.

Except for the 4th, eh? But didn't you just tell us that keeping His commandments is an act of religion, not love? I'm confused.

Maybe if you would stop twisting my words you wouldn't have to worry about my composure. Just as Satan twisted scripture in his temptation of Jesus. So I wonder, who's purpose is it that you seek to serve?

After all, the evidence points toward Satan's tactics. My point about the Sabbath brings us closer to Jesus. Your keeping of a specific day does not. It is simply legalism. There is nothing in Jesus's ministry that indicates that He stopped working in observance of the Jewish Sabbath.

 

[joyinhim]

Hi every one, I am not a SDA member, but I have been looking into their practices and listening to their sermons. I haven't found anything unbiblical about them. On the contrary, they are the best denomination imho. We see so many bad report about churches and christians. I feel blessed to see such fruitful organization as a whole.

God is sure working mightily in their organization.

Instead of nitpicking them we should learn from them.

BTW, my family and I started have Sabbath day on Saturday.

Praise the Lord for SDA's faithfulness!

 

[thessalonian]

I would like some clarification from those who say the law is no longer for us.

Could you kindly explain these verses to me:

Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.â€Â

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments."

John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.â€Â

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

Romans 3
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.


I certainly believe it is only by the grace of God that we are saved. I also believe we should endeavor to follow the law because we love him and he loves us. Not in order to be saved but because we are saved. It is the law that convicts us when we have gone against the will of God and lead us to repentance.

If my understanding is incomplete or incorrect I would like a reasonable discussion as to where my error may be.

I may have missed it but I didn't see an answer to Nroof's post so I am bringing it down. Jesus said above "if you love me, keep my commandments". So if we do not have to be obedient, i.e. keep his commandments, then is loving him unneccessary? Do we not have to keep the commandments to attain eternal life even though the verse in John above states that if you want eternal life you must. I do know the obvuscation on this one but I will let you post it.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Hi every one, I am not a SDA member, but I have been looking into their practices and listening to their sermons. I haven't found anything unbiblical about them. On the contrary, they are the best denomination imho. We see so many bad report about churches and christians. I feel blessed to see such fruitful organization as a whole.

God is sure working mightily in their organization.

Instead of nitpicking them we should learn from them.

BTW, my family and I started have Sabbath day on Saturday.

Praise the Lord for SDA's faithfulness!

That's great, joyinhim. Thanks for the warm post.

 

[joyinhim]

Hi every one, I am not a SDA member, but I have been looking into their practices and listening to their sermons. I haven't found anything unbiblical about them. On the contrary, they are the best denomination imho. We see so many bad report about churches and christians. I feel blessed to see such fruitful organization as a whole.

God is sure working mightily in their organization.

Instead of nitpicking them we should learn from them.

BTW, my family and I started have Sabbath day on Saturday.

Praise the Lord for SDA's faithfulness!

That's great, joyinhim. Thanks for the warm post.

You are very welcome :D

 

[SputnikBoy]

And, joyinhim, please excuse some of my posts that may appear to be a little 'over the top'. While I'm really serious about my faith, I often find it best (for me anyway) to 'play around' with some of the more 'testy' forum members to ease the tension. I don't dislike any of them really (um, well ...) and I also rarely intend to discredit their Christian sincerity. If the truth be known, some of them may be 'better' Christians than I am.

 

[joyinhim]

And, joyinhim, please excuse some of my posts that may appear to be a little 'over the top'. While I'm really serious about my faith, I often find it best (for me anyway) to 'play around' with some of the more 'testy' forum members to ease the tension. I don't dislike any of them really (um, well ...) and I also rarely intend to discredit their Christian sincerity. If the truth be known, some of them may be 'better' Christians than I am.

Hi sput, I really don't get what you mean. Would you explain simply? what does "over the top" mean and the rest?

 

[Jay T]

Hi every one, I am not a SDA member, but I have been looking into their practices and listening to their sermons. I haven't found anything unbiblical about them. On the contrary, they are the best denomination imho. We see so many bad report about churches and christians. I feel blessed to see such fruitful organization as a whole.

God is sure working mightily in their organization.

Instead of nitpicking them we should learn from them.

BTW, my family and I started have Sabbath day on Saturday.

Praise the Lord for SDA's faithfulness!

Just remember....satan hates SDA's, as scripture says in Revelation 12:17.

This is not said to discourage you, but to try to prepare you for what is to come.
"Those who shall live godly shall suffer presecution"

The 7th day Sabbath stands, as the [sign] of the love relationship between God and man, (Ezekiel 20:20).

 

[joyinhim]

Hi every one, I am not a SDA member, but I have been looking into their practices and listening to their sermons. I haven't found anything unbiblical about them. On the contrary, they are the best denomination imho. We see so many bad report about churches and christians. I feel blessed to see such fruitful organization as a whole.

God is sure working mightily in their organization.

Instead of nitpicking them we should learn from them.

BTW, my family and I started have Sabbath day on Saturday.

Praise the Lord for SDA's faithfulness!

Just remember....satan hates SDA's, as scripture says in Revelation 12:17.

This is not said to discourage you, but to try to prepare you for what is to come.
"Those who shall live godly shall suffer presecution"

The 7th day Sabbath stands, as the [sign] of the love relationship between God and man, (Ezekiel 20:20).

Thank you Jay for warning me but I have experienced plenty of it. Satan hates obedient followers.

In free countries persecution comes from fellow believers. It comes in many shapes and forms.

The only way to protect ourselves from Satan is total commitment to Him.

 

[Jay T]

Hi every one, I am not a SDA member, but I have been looking into their practices and listening to their sermons. I haven't found anything unbiblical about them. On the contrary, they are the best denomination imho. We see so many bad report about churches and christians. I feel blessed to see such fruitful organization as a whole.

God is sure working mightily in their organization.

Instead of nitpicking them we should learn from them.

BTW, my family and I started have Sabbath day on Saturday.

Praise the Lord for SDA's faithfulness!

Just remember....satan hates SDA's, as scripture says in Revelation 12:17.

This is not said to discourage you, but to try to prepare you for what is to come.
"Those who shall live godly shall suffer presecution"

The 7th day Sabbath stands, as the [sign] of the love relationship between God and man, (Ezekiel 20:20).

Thank you Jay for warning me but I have experienced plenty of it. Satan hates obedient followers.

In free countries persecution comes from fellow believers. It comes in many shapes and forms.

The only way to protect ourselves from Satan is total commitment to Him.

Obedience is the key word here.
Those who love Jesus Christ will 'do' what He says to do (7th day sabbath), not of out of obeying the Law, as though the law could possible save anyone ....but, out of love for Him.