Saturday Or Sunday Church ?

[kwag_myers]

Obedience is the key word here.
Those who love Jesus Christ will 'do' what He says to do (7th day sabbath), not of out of obeying the Law, as though the law could possible save anyone ....but, out of love for Him.

But Jesus never "rested" on the sabbath. Again, I ask you to show me when and where He ever changed His conduct to physically observe the sabbath rest? You still live in the Old Testament. You haven't figured out what Hebrews 8:5 means to New Testament believers.

Do you accept that fact that Jesus died so that you could no longer be held accountable for sin? Do you accept the resurrection of Jesus so that we have victory over death? Do you accept the Holy Spirit, teacher of the truth that Jesus sent to us? How is it then, that keeping one day each week is more that what Jesus has done for you? Can you still not see that we now have rest from sin and death because of what He has done for us? Do you still not understand what it means to rest in Jesus? Or have you chosen your SDA religious doctrine of pharisees over the true Sabbath Rest?

Do you keep the feasts as Jesus did? Are you healing the sick, casting out demons? If you love Him, why do you not follow His example? Didn't He say that we would do even greater works that he?

 

[Jay T]

[quote="Jay T":0b110]Obedience is the key word here.
Those who love Jesus Christ will 'do' what He says to do (7th day sabbath), not of out of obeying the Law, as though the law could possible save anyone ....but, out of love for Him.

But Jesus never "rested" on the sabbath. Again, I ask you to show me when and where He ever changed His conduct to physically observe the sabbath rest? [/quote:0b110]

You still live in the Old Testament.

When Jesus said: Matthew 4:4 "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by [every word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of God".
Do you think He meant the Old Testament, also ?

You haven't figured out what Hebrews 8:5 means to New Testament believers.

8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern showed to thee in the mount. Do you understand that the earthly tabernacle was a copy, of what was in heaven ?

And, if the earthly tabernacle had the 10 commandments written on stone 'IN' the tabernacle.....and, the earthly tabernacle was a 'copy'...of what was in heaven.....then, the 10 commandments are in heaven !

Do you accept that fact that Jesus died so that you could no longer be held accountable for sin?

NO !
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries".

Do you accept the resurrection of Jesus so that we have victory over death?

Only on condition of Obedience....as Jesus said.

[pquote] Do you accept the Holy Spirit, teacher of the truth that Jesus sent to us?[/quote]The Holy Spirit is sent to those who obey.....
Acts 5:32 "And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him".

And one more.....
John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments".
14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive....." Condition ?
keep the commandments.
Then....the comforter can come.

How is it then, that keeping one day each week is more that what Jesus has done for you?

20:20 "And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God".

Can you still not see that we now have rest from sin and death because of what He has done for us?

Anyone who committs sin...knows not Jesus Christ....as scripture says.

Or have you chosen your SDA religious doctrine of pharisees over the true Sabbath Rest?

Then why does the Bible identify the SDA people, as well as the 7th day Baptists ?
Revelation 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus". Can any church, that holds Sunday worship services claim, to keep the commandments of God ?

 

[Jay T]

deleted

 

[Henry]

Here is the problem you guys talk about church as something we do, or some place we go. When all the while chuch is WHO we are not what do, and church was NEVER a place that we go.

If we all would REALLY come to understand the nature of church life we would know that it is an everyday thing and get off these minor matters of what day we meet together for even more unbiblical forms of "church"

While you gusy worry about what day to have church, which is biblical. I say meeting in a building PERIOD called a church is unbiblical

 

[SputnikBoy]

Here is the problem you guys talk about church as something we do, or some place we go. When all the while chuch is WHO we are not what do, and church was NEVER a place that we go.

If we all would REALLY come to understand the nature of church life we would know that it is an everyday thing and get off these minor matters of what day we meet together for even more unbiblical forms of "church"

While you gusy worry about what day to have church, which is biblical. I say meeting in a building PERIOD called a church is unbiblical

While the title of this thread is 'Saturday or Sunday Church' the issue isn't really 'Church' at all. We DO find that Sabbatarians customarily go to church on Saturday and mainstream Christians customarily go to church on Sunday. The bottom line, however, is do you keep the Sabbath Day (in whatever way you may feel led) on the 7th-day as was initiated by God at Creation? It really doesn't have a whole lot to do with actually going to church on whatever day per se.

By the way, this issue may not be as minor as you might think it to be.

 

[Jay T]

Here is the problem you guys talk about church as something we do, or some place we go. When all the while chuch is WHO we are not what do, and church was NEVER a place that we go.

If we all would REALLY come to understand the nature of church life we would know that it is an everyday thing and get off these minor matters of what day we meet together for even more unbiblical forms of "church"

While you gusy worry about what day to have church, which is biblical. I say meeting in a building PERIOD called a church is unbiblical

You're right !
The church is not a meeting place or building per se.
The church, is people.

The church is wherever people meet, wether it be in someones home, or a field, or on top of a mountain.

 

[Imagican]

Thanks kwag, for cleaning that up for me. Sorry I didn't get back sooner and do it myself.

Look guys, I don't know about you, but I am NOT a Jew. Those laws that were given to those people were for a purpose. At the time of that law being given, we don't even know if Gentiles could be saved PERIOD. We really don't know how their souls were judged. We certainly know that God destroyed many for their wicked ways, but we don't really know what happened to them as far as eternity is concerned.

Then comes Jesus. The Salvation of the WORLD. Both Jew and Gentile. What does Paul tell us about circumcision? About food laws? He even states himself that he is unable to do ALL that he knows that he should but the law no longer condemns him to death.

THE PUNISHMENT FOR SIN WAS DEATH. Christ fulfilled this law. He suffered for ALL sin so that we would not have to suffer everlasting death.

NO, we are certainly NOT to go out and commit sin for the sake of our desires simply because we are no longer bound to death by the law. But we are certainly to be thankful for being freed from the burden that He and the leaders of His people had placed upon the masses. Freedom is a good thing. For now you know that you are not condemned to death for your actions. For now we will be judged by our hearts. What do you believe? What you believe you BETTER follow for THAT IS NOW THE LAW.

 

[SputnikBoy]

I appreciate and respect your common sense posts, Imagican. You're no slouch, that's for sure. However (no, this is NOT about to be a put-down ), we really do need to question WHY God blessed and sanctified the seventh-day at Creation. This was WAY before the first Jew and possibly way before the fall of man.

So, at about the same time humans were formed out of the dust, God set aside a 'special' day. Why? For what special purpose would God have done this? As mentioned, there was no need for a Savior at this point in time since man had not yet fallen from God's grace. God's grace ...hmmm. Does that have a familiar ring today as being only applicable to Christians?

Also, even HAD the Sabbath been designed with the Jews in mind (hundreds of years before the first Jew, mind you), what specific significance would the Sabbath Day hold for the Jew that it wouldn't for us anyway? Contrary to popular (and recently invented) opinion, the Sabbath command did NOT point to the Messiah as has already been clearly pointed out.

Ask yourselves this question too (anyone) - why is it that the Sabbath issue is a thorn in the side of so many Christians ...to the point where they feel the need to abolish ALL of the commandments in order to get rid of that one? Do you (anyone) not even wonder about this ...I mean, not even a smidgin'? The truth of the matter is, if not for the Sabbath command, NO ONE would be arguing against ANY of the other commandments ...true?

 

[Julian Pyke]

Does it really matter? I mean, in Mexico, Monday is considered the first day of the week and Sunday the last. making it the seventh day of the week. Here Saturday is the 7th. I believe its taking on day to rest.

 

[Jay T]

Does it really matter? I mean, in Mexico, Monday is considered the first day of the week and Sunday the last. making it the seventh day of the week. Here Saturday is the 7th. I believe its taking on day to rest.

Christians need only to rely upon what the Bible says. and not...what others think.
It is always wise to remember, that the majority are always wrong....in religious matters.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Does it really matter? I mean, in Mexico, Monday is considered the first day of the week and Sunday the last. making it the seventh day of the week. Here Saturday is the 7th. I believe its taking on day to rest.

Hi Julian

Does it really matter what day? Well, not to me it doesn't but it might matter to God ...what do you think? God was the one who numbered the days to begin with. He was also the one who singled out the seventh day from the rest and blessed and hallowed it. As a matter of fact, did you know that the seven-day weekly cycle comes from nowhere else but God?

 

[Solo]

Does it really matter? I mean, in Mexico, Monday is considered the first day of the week and Sunday the last. making it the seventh day of the week. Here Saturday is the 7th. I believe its taking on day to rest.

Hi Julian

Does it really matter what day? Well, not to me it doesn't but it might matter to God ...what do you think? God was the one who numbered the days to begin with. He was also the one who singled out the seventh day from the rest and blessed and hallowed it. As a matter of fact, did you know that the seven-day weekly cycle comes from nowhere else but God?

If I may, It doesn't matter to God what day you want to live as holy if you only can live one day to him, but he has not designated to me that I am to keep the Sabbath day as Saturday nor has he designated that only one day a week should be kept to his works.

In fact, he has made it definitely clear to me that all days should be kept holy unto him, and that we should have every day of the week lined up to be about the business of God as God brings our way.

He has yet to designate the scriptures that he has shown me in the Word of God as being a lie. He has said over and again through his son Jesus, that the Sabbath was made for man, and man was not made for the Sabbath.

Perhaps when the Word of God is made as important as the doctrine of the Sabbath Keepers, the truth will melt into the understanding of those that seek the truth.

My prayer is that all false doctrines being taught will be manifested to those who are born again, and those that have the Holy Spirit will not quench the Spirit, but listen to him speak to their hearts and minds.

Thanks for letting me post what was on my heart after reading your post.

 

[Jay T]

He has said over and again through his son Jesus, that the Sabbath was made for man, and man was not made for the Sabbath.

It is amazing that God made the sabbath for man.....yet man, rejects the sabbath.

 

[Solo]

What is amazing is that God gave his Son Jesus Christ to be the rest unto which man shall abide to be saved, and some still want to be under the Law which cannot save.

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:1-23

 

[Solo]

Should Christians Keep the Sabbath?
by Wayne Jackson
Christian Courier: Archives
Wednesday, January 17, 2001

Does the fourth commandment apply today? Should Christians keep the Sabbath?
In these times when so many are concerned about the moral deterioration of our nation, this recommendation is occasionally made: “We need to get back to the ten commandments as our code of conduct.†Although the motive for such an admonition is doubtless honorable, it suggests a common, though erroneous, concept about the nature of the ten commandments.

In the first place, most of us (all who are non-Jews) have never been under the decalogue. The ten commandments were a part of the Mosaic law, and that system was given to the Hebrews alone (Dt. 5:1-5). That does not suggest that the ancient Gentiles were exempt from religious and moral responsibility; it does mean that non-Israelites were never amenable to the Mosaic code per se.

That aside, it is a logical fact that if one argues for the re-institution of the ten commandments, he must, if consistent, contend that the sabbath requirements are binding as well. This view, of course, is promoted by the Seventh-day Adventists and other sabbatarians, but it does not reflect the biblical perspective. In this article we wish to show three things. First, the church of the first century, as directed by inspired leaders, did not observe the sabbath. Second, the unique features of the Old Testament sabbath demonstrate that it was never designed to be an international requirement. Third, the Scriptures explicitly teach that the sabbath has been abolished. Let us pursue each of these lines of thought.


First Century Christian Practice
Try as one might, he will search in vain for New Testament evidence that the primitive church observed the sabbath with apostolic approval. Yes, it certainly was the case that the apostles frequented the synagogues on the sabbath for the purpose of proclaiming the gospel. That is where the greatest concentration of Jews would have been (cf. Acts 13:14; 17:1-2, etc.), and the message regarding Jesus was to be spoken first to them (Rom. 1:16).

But where is the evidence that the early church, under divine guidance, came together to worship God on the sabbath day?


The kingdom of Christ was established on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1), which always fell on “the morrow after the sabbath†(Lev. 23:15-16), hence, on Sunday. So the church started out meeting for worship on the first day of the week (cf. Acts 2:42).

The disciples at Troas “were gathered together†[passive voice] upon “the first day of the week†to break bread, i.e., to worship, (Acts 20:7). The specific day of meeting was no accident. Though Paul was anxious to get to Jerusalem (20:16), he waited seven days for the opportunity to assemble with the church.
Moreover, the passive voice (see above) indicates that the assemblage was orchestrated by someone other than the disciples; it was of divine initiative.


The saints in Corinth were assembling, and contributing into the church treasury, “every first day of the week†(1 Cor. 16:2 – Greek text; cf. NASB).

On the isle of Patmos, John was “in the spirit†on “the Lord’s day†(Rev. 1:10). The term for “Lord’s†is kupiakos, which is defined here as “relating to the Lord.†Thayer comments: “. . . the day devoted to the Lord, sacred to the memory of Christ’s resurrection†(365).
The Gospel narratives, of course, make it clear that the resurrection occurred on Sunday. While Revelation 1:10 would not be conclusive by itself, the very fact that the day is specifically mentioned is significant.

We must also add this note. While it was true that some weak or uninformed Christians had a problem making a clean break with the Mosaic economy (Rom. 14:1ff; Gal. 4:10-11), it is important to recognize that inspired apostolic teaching sought to correct this error.

Also, there is the record of the post-apostolic patristic writers. For the first three centuries of Christian history, the testimony is uniform that the original disciples of Jesus Christ worshipped on Sunday – not on the sabbath. Here is a sampling of that testimony.


The Didache (c. A.D. 120) declares that “every Lord’s day†the Christians gather themselves together and “break bread†(ANF.VII.381).

The Epistle of Barnabas (c. A.D. 120), in discussing such things as incense, new moons, and sabbaths, says that the Lord “abolished these things†in deference to “the new law of our Lord Jesus Christ†(ANF.I.138). Later, it is affirmed: “Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead†(I.147).

Justin Martyr (A.D. 140) declared that “on the day called Sunday†the primitive Christians met for worship. He further stated that this was the day on which Christ was raised from the dead (I.186).

Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 194) spoke of the one who “keeps the Lord’s day†as “glorifying the Lord’s resurrection in himself†(ANF.II.545).

Tertullian (A.D. 200) argued that the “old law†had been consummated; thus the “observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary†(ANF.III.155). Elsewhere he says that “Sabbaths are strange†to Christians, and that they share together “the Lord’s day†(70).

Eusebius (A.D. 324), known as the “father of church history,†stated that sabbath-observance does not “belong to Christians.†On the other hand, he asserted that Christians “celebrate the Lord’s days . . . in commemoration of his resurrection†(26,113).

Noted historian Philip Schaff concludes: “The universal and uncontradicted Sunday observance in the second century can only be explained by the fact that it had its roots in the apostolic practice†(478-479).

Finally, we must make this comment. It is incorrect to refer to Sunday as “the Christian sabbath.â€Â


Old Testament Sabbath Considerations
First, in considering the sabbath requirements of the Old Testament era, perhaps it would be helpful to point out that there were many other “sabbaths,†in addition to the seventh-day sabbath, which the Hebrews were required to keep (cf. Lev. 19:3; 26:2).

For example, there were extra sabbath days in connection with the five sacred festivals (e.g., the Passover, First-Fruits, etc. - cf. Lev. 23:7-8; 21; 24-25; 32; 39). The Hebrews actually observed fifty-nine sabbaths each year. In addition, every seventh year was a sabbatical year (Lev. 25:1-4), and each fiftieth year was sabbatical as well (Lev. 25:8-13). The land was to lie uncultivated during these times, and debts were to be cancelled (Dt. 15:2).

In a fifty-year span, the faithful Hebrew, to one degree or another – depending upon the specific requirement of the law, would observe 5,830 sabbaths. Contrast that with the fact that the average sabbatarian today, in the same time-frame – keeping Saturday alone – would honor only 2,600 sabbaths, thus, fall 3,230 sabbaths short of the divine standard.

Second, as noted earlier, the sabbath, as a religious requirement, was restricted to the Israelites. It was not a part of any patriarchal covenant (cf. Dt. 5:2-3); rather, it was an ordinance made known at Sinai (Neh. 9:13-14), which served as a “sign†between Jehovah and his special people (Ezk. 20:12). Thus, Gentiles have never been obligated to observe the sabbath day.

Third, consider this regulation: “You shall not light a fire in any of your homes on the sabbath day†(Ex. 35:3). This is clear evidence of the fact that the sabbath was not intended to be a universal requirement. Prof. Rawlinson observes that “in the warm climate of Arabia and Palestine artificial warmth was not needed†(378).

For example, Jerusalem is in the same latitude as New Orleans and Houston. The average annual temperature is sixty-five degrees, and it seldom falls below forty (see Jackson, 11). One can only imagine what it would be like attempting to keep this ordinance in Alaska or Siberia.


The Sabbath Terminated
The Scriptures are emphatic that the requirement to keep the sabbath has been terminated. New Testament data lead to the conclusion that the law of Moses (with all of its components – including the sabbath) has been abrogated. Paul affirmed that the “law of commandments†was abolished “through the cross†(Eph. 2:14ff). Similarly, the “bond written in ordinances†(which contained such things as feast days, sabbaths, etc.) was taken out of the way, having been nailed to the cross (Col. 2:14-16).

Sabbatarians allege, however, that only the ceremonial features (e.g., animal sacrifices) of the Mosaic covenant were abolished at the cross. The moral elements of the law (e.g., the ten commandments), it is argued, continue to this very day.

This position is arbitrary, artificial, and will not stand the test of scripture. Observe the following:


God promised to make a “new covenant,†which would not be like the one given to Israel when the nation left Egypt (Jer. 31:31ff). When that “new covenant†was given, a “change†in laws was made (Heb. 7:12). But the old law, bestowed when Israel came out of Egyptian bondage, contained the ten commandments (1 Kgs. 8:9,21). Thus, the decalogue passed away when the Old Testament was replaced by the New.

In Romans 7, the apostle argued that the Christian is “dead to the law through the body of Christ†(4). He further contended that the child of God is “discharged from the law†(6).
Well, exactly what “law†was in view? Merely a “ceremonial†law? No, that is not the case, for subsequently Paul says: “[F]or I had not known coveting, except the law had said, ‘You shall not covet’†(vs. 7; cf. Ex. 20:17).

Clearly, the law to which the Christian is “dead,†i.e., separated from, and from which he is “discharge€ included the ten commandments. The Christian is not under obligation to keep the sabbath.

The fact is, just after he affirmed that the law was “nailed to the cross,†Paul declared that no one could “judge,†i.e., condemn (cf. Thayer, 361) a Christian for not keeping feast days, sabbaths, etc. (Col. 2:16). That statement could not have been made had the sabbath-law still been operative.

We do not doubt that many sabbatarians are genuinely sincere in their profession of keeping the seventh day. But sincerity alone does not justify. The modern practice of “sabbath-keeping†is erroneous.

Retrieved from http://www.christiancourier.com/archives/sabbath.htm

 

[Jay T]

What is amazing is that God gave his Son Jesus Christ to be the rest unto which man shall abide to be saved, and some still want to be under the Law which cannot save.

And you still fail to understand what Romans 10:4 is saying..... Romans 10:4 "For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth".

 

[kwag_myers]

What is amazing is that God gave his Son Jesus Christ to be the rest unto which man shall abide to be saved, and some still want to be under the Law which cannot save.

And you still fail to understand what Romans 10:4 is saying..... Romans 10:4 "For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth".

Doesn't Romans 10:4 support Solo's position? I think it does. And the question still remains, HOW do you keep the Sabbath?

You "Saturday vs. Sunday" guys can't answer that, can you?

 

[SputnikBoy]

Should Christians Keep the Sabbath?
by Wayne Jackson
Christian Courier: Archives
Wednesday, January 17, 2001

Does the fourth commandment apply today? Should Christians keep the Sabbath?
In these times when so many are concerned about the moral deterioration of our nation, this recommendation is occasionally made: “We need to get back to the ten commandments as our code of conduct.†Although the motive for such an admonition is doubtless honorable, it suggests a common, though erroneous, concept about the nature of the ten commandments.

In the first place, most of us (all who are non-Jews) have never been under the decalogue. The ten commandments were a part of the Mosaic law, and that system was given to the Hebrews alone (Dt. 5:1-5). That does not suggest that the ancient Gentiles were exempt from religious and moral responsibility; it does mean that non-Israelites were never amenable to the Mosaic code per se.

So, what ARE the religious and moral responsibilities of today's Christians? Or are there none? Seriously ...what ARE they? I'd like to know what, other than not murdering, stealing, committing adultery, etc., is left to be morally responsible to?

That aside, it is a logical fact that if one argues for the re-institution of the ten commandments, he must, if consistent, contend that the sabbath requirements are binding as well.

Ohhh, and THAT's the problem, isn't it? It always has been and always will be problematic to every Sunday-keeping Christian.

This view, of course, is promoted by the Seventh-day Adventists and other sabbatarians, but it does not reflect the biblical perspective.

Absolutely incorrect. Mainstream Christians rebel against the 'biblical perspective'. It's a thorn in their side.

In this article we wish to show three things. First, the church of the first century, as directed by inspired leaders, did not observe the sabbath.

Why the need to emphasize 'inspired'? Who says that they were inspired? Inspired by whom? Some people say that Ellen White was inspired and this meets with objections from some people on this forum. So, why are we to assume that these leaders were any more 'inspired' than Ellen White? Anyway, the fact that they chose not to observe God's Sabbath speaks volumes about their 'inspiration'.

Second, the unique features of the Old Testament sabbath demonstrate that it was never designed to be an international requirement.

But Sunday was? Scriptures please.

Third, the Scriptures explicitly teach that the sabbath has been abolished. Let us pursue each of these lines of thought.

The scriptures explicitly teach that the Sabbath has been abolished? Evidently my version of the Bible is not the EVB ('Explicit Version Bible') because the abolition of the Sabbath just ain't there!

First Century Christian Practice
Try as one might, he will search in vain for New Testament evidence that the primitive church observed the sabbath with apostolic approval. Yes, it certainly was the case that the apostles frequented the synagogues on the sabbath for the purpose of proclaiming the gospel.

But, for some totally inexplicable reason, they would much sooner have been proclaiming the gospel on Sunday? Is that what is supposed to be implied here?

That is where the greatest concentration of Jews would have been

What were the apostles ...Martians?

(cf. Acts 13:14; 17:1-2, etc.), and the message regarding Jesus was to be spoken first to them (Rom. 1:16).

So, if the Jews HAD converted to Christianity, then we're to assume that they TOO would have received some divine revelation that, from then on, they were to keep Sunday instead of the Sabbath?

But where is the evidence that the early church, under divine guidance, came together to worship God on the sabbath day?

Well, Jesus knew that the apostles would be keeping the Sabbath some 40 years after His resurrection. Where is the research behind your source, Solo? The fall of Jerusalem occurred in A.D.70. We all know that. The followers of Jesus were still obedient to the Sabbath when that upheaval occurred. Read Matthew 24:20 then tell us that Jesus' disciples were not keeping the Sabbath!

And, coincidentally, didn't the fall of Jerusalem occur AFTER Paul's writings were completed? Hmmm ...that DOES create a dilemma. By the way, what a perfect opportunity Jesus would have had when telling the disciples about all of the trials and tribulations that would occur (Matthew 24) to also drop the hint that the Sabbath would also disappear. But did He tell them that? On the contrary!!

The kingdom of Christ was established on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1), which always fell on “the morrow after the sabbath†(Lev. 23:15-16), hence, on Sunday. So the church started out meeting for worship on the first day of the week (cf. Acts 2:42).

Baloney!

The disciples at Troas “were gathered together†[passive voice] upon “the first day of the week†to break bread, i.e., to worship, (Acts 20:7). The specific day of meeting was no accident. Though Paul was anxious to get to Jerusalem (20:16), he waited seven days for the opportunity to assemble with the church.
Moreover, the passive voice (see above) indicates that the assemblage was orchestrated by someone other than the disciples; it was of divine initiative.

Double baloney!!

The saints in Corinth were assembling, and contributing into the church treasury, “every first day of the week†(1 Cor. 16:2 – Greek text; cf. NASB).

So? It simply means what it says.

On the isle of Patmos, John was “in the spirit†on “the Lord’s day†(Rev. 1:10). The term for “Lord’s†is kupiakos, which is defined here as “relating to the Lord.†Thayer comments: “. . . the day devoted to the Lord, sacred to the memory of Christ’s resurrection†(365).
The Gospel narratives, of course, make it clear that the resurrection occurred on Sunday. While Revelation 1:10 would not be conclusive by itself, the very fact that the day is specifically mentioned is significant.

That 'the Lord's Day' is Sunday has been refuted with scripture so many times that this is getting monotonous.

We must also add this note. While it was true that some weak or uninformed Christians had a problem making a clean break with the Mosaic economy (Rom. 14:1ff; Gal. 4:10-11), it is important to recognize that inspired apostolic teaching sought to correct this error.

The height of arrogance. Am I the only one here who can see this?

Also, there is the record of the post-apostolic patristic writers. For the first three centuries of Christian history, the testimony is uniform that the original disciples of Jesus Christ worshipped on Sunday – not on the sabbath. Here is a sampling of that testimony.

Again, read Matthew 24:20. The original disciples of Jesus remained obedient to the Sabbath command. They did not worship on Sunday and to say they did is telling fibs!. NO ONE CAN REFUTE THIS!

Um ...does the Word of God (remember Him?) figure in this dialog somewhere?

The Didache (c. A.D. 120) declares that “every Lord’s day†the Christians gather themselves together and “break bread†(ANF.VII.381).

That then must have been the Lord's Holy Day (the 7th-day Sabbath) spoken of in Isaiah 58:13-14 ...? I don't know of any other 'Lord's Day' in the Bible. Could you point it out to me?

The Epistle of Barnabas (c. A.D. 120), in discussing such things as incense, new moons, and sabbaths, says that the Lord “abolished these things†in deference to “the new law of our Lord Jesus Christ†(ANF.I.138). Later, it is affirmed: “Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead†(I.147).

Is that supposed to make a case for the abolition of the Sabbath?

Justin Martyr (A.D. 140) declared that “on the day called Sunday†the primitive Christians met for worship. He further stated that this was the day on which Christ was raised from the dead (I.186).

Wonderful.

Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 194) spoke of the one who “keeps the Lord’s day†as “glorifying the Lord’s resurrection in himself†(ANF.II.545).

Again, wonderful. Are we to assume that it was THESE guys who abolished the Sabbath? It sure was no one from the scriptures.

Tertullian (A.D. 200) argued that the “old law†had been consummated; thus the “observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary†(ANF.III.155). Elsewhere he says that “Sabbaths are strange†to Christians, and that they share together “the Lord’s day†(70).

Saturday is 'strange' but Sunday isn't? If that is not illogical then I'm Mr Spock.

Eusebius (A.D. 324), known as the “father of church history,†stated that sabbath-observance does not “belong to Christians.†On the other hand, he asserted that Christians “celebrate the Lord’s days . . . in commemoration of his resurrection†(26,113).

Apparantly the tag 'father of church history' is supposed to add some credibility here. Again we see illogical reasoning of these people. And yet we're supposed to go along with them. The Sabbath doesn't belong to Christians but Sunday does. The mind boggles.

Noted historian Philip Schaff concludes: “The universal and uncontradicted Sunday observance in the second century can only be explained by the fact that it had its roots in the apostolic practice†(478-479).

And this guy isn't simply a historian but a NOTED historian no less! We've already seen that Sunday didn't even figure with the apostles so what is this guy talking about? They were still obedient to the Sabbath command in A.D.70 and there's no reason to believe that they didn't continue this practice until they died. That INCLUDES Paul!

Finally, we must make this comment. It is incorrect to refer to Sunday as “the Christian sabbath.â€Â

Why not? Every English Dictionary in the world defines it as such. And, while a dictionary is not inspired, the definition does reflect the belief of most Christians.

Old Testament Sabbath Considerations
First, in considering the sabbath requirements of the Old Testament era, perhaps it would be helpful to point out that there were many other “sabbaths,†in addition to the seventh-day sabbath, which the Hebrews were required to keep (cf. Lev. 19:3; 26:2).

For example, there were extra sabbath days in connection with the five sacred festivals (e.g., the Passover, First-Fruits, etc. - cf. Lev. 23:7-8; 21; 24-25; 32; 39). The Hebrews actually observed fifty-nine sabbaths each year. In addition, every seventh year was a sabbatical year (Lev. 25:1-4), and each fiftieth year was sabbatical as well (Lev. 25:8-13). The land was to lie uncultivated during these times, and debts were to be cancelled (Dt. 15:2).

In a fifty-year span, the faithful Hebrew, to one degree or another – depending upon the specific requirement of the law, would observe 5,830 sabbaths. Contrast that with the fact that the average sabbatarian today, in the same time-frame – keeping Saturday alone – would honor only 2,600 sabbaths, thus, fall 3,230 sabbaths short of the divine standard.

Second, as noted earlier, the sabbath, as a religious requirement, was restricted to the Israelites. It was not a part of any patriarchal covenant (cf. Dt. 5:2-3); rather, it was an ordinance made known at Sinai (Neh. 9:13-14), which served as a “sign†between Jehovah and his special people (Ezk. 20:12). Thus, Gentiles have never been obligated to observe the sabbath day.

Third, consider this regulation: “You shall not light a fire in any of your homes on the sabbath day†(Ex. 35:3). This is clear evidence of the fact that the sabbath was not intended to be a universal requirement. Prof. Rawlinson observes that “in the warm climate of Arabia and Palestine artificial warmth was not needed†(378).

For example, Jerusalem is in the same latitude as New Orleans and Houston. The average annual temperature is sixty-five degrees, and it seldom falls below forty (see Jackson, 11). One can only imagine what it would be like attempting to keep this ordinance in Alaska or Siberia.

The Sabbath Terminated
The Scriptures are emphatic that the requirement to keep the sabbath has been terminated. New Testament data lead to the conclusion that the law of Moses (with all of its components – including the sabbath) has been abrogated. Paul affirmed that the “law of commandments†was abolished “through the cross†(Eph. 2:14ff). Similarly, the “bond written in ordinances†(which contained such things as feast days, sabbaths, etc.) was taken out of the way, having been nailed to the cross (Col. 2:14-16).

Sabbatarians allege, however, that only the ceremonial features (e.g., animal sacrifices) of the Mosaic covenant were abolished at the cross. The moral elements of the law (e.g., the ten commandments), it is argued, continue to this very day.

This position is arbitrary, artificial, and will not stand the test of scripture. Observe the following:

So, mainstream Christians hate the commandments. I feel sure, however, that the majority of you guys would be kinda 'tee'd off' if someone broke into your home and broke certain commandments (I don't need to list them) with members of your family - shudder at the thought. That anyone would even WANT to get rid of the commandments is foolhardy at best.

God promised to make a “new covenant,†which would not be like the one given to Israel when the nation left Egypt (Jer. 31:31ff). When that “new covenant†was given, a “change†in laws was made (Heb. 7:12). But the old law, bestowed when Israel came out of Egyptian bondage, contained the ten commandments (1 Kgs. 8:9,21). Thus, the decalogue passed away when the Old Testament was replaced by the New.

Absolute baloney. This is a total misunderstanding of the scriptures and absolute ignorance as to what the New Covenant is.

In Romans 7, the apostle argued that the Christian is “dead to the law through the body of Christ†(4). He further contended that the child of God is “discharged from the law†(6).
Well, exactly what “law†was in view? Merely a “ceremonial†law? No, that is not the case, for subsequently Paul says: “[F]or I had not known coveting, except the law had said, ‘You shall not covet’†(vs. 7; cf. Ex. 20:17).

These scriptures have been discussed many times previously. Do we really need to keep covering the same ground endlessly?

Clearly, the law to which the Christian is “dead,†i.e., separated from, and from which he is “discharged,†included the ten commandments. The Christian is not under obligation to keep the sabbath.

Why wouldn't they want to keep the Sabbath even if not obligated? They don't seem to have a problem with Sunday. It just doesn't make any sense.

The fact is, just after he affirmed that the law was “nailed to the cross,†Paul declared that no one could “judge,†i.e., condemn (cf. Thayer, 361) a Christian for not keeping feast days, sabbaths, etc. (Col. 2:16). That statement could not have been made had the sabbath-law still been operative.

Again, these are scriptures that have been adequately addressed previously. Sorry to sound like a broken record but check out Matthew 24:20 again and again to see whether or not the Sabbath-law was still operative. That particular scripture refutes everything else that has been presented here to the contrary.

We do not doubt that many sabbatarians are genuinely sincere in their profession of keeping the seventh day.

Patronizing.

But sincerity alone does not justify. The modern practice of “sabbath-keeping†is erroneous.

But 'Sunday-keeping' isn't? I'll opt for God's day WAY BEFORE I'll submit to a day that was given officialdom by the RCC! How many people on this thread are actually thinking?

 

[Lewis]

Roman Catholic and Protestant Confessions about Sunday

The vast majority of Christian churches today teach the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, as a time for rest and worship. Yet it is generally known and freely admitted that the early Christians observed the seventh day as the Sabbath. How did this change come about?

History reveals that it was decades after the death of the apostles that a politico-religious system repudiated the Sabbath of Scripture and substituted the observance of the first day of the week. The following quotations, all from Roman Catholic sources, freely acknowledge that there is no Biblical authority for the observance of Sunday, that it was the Roman Church that changed the Sabbath to the first day of the week.

In the second portion of this booklet are quotations from Protestants. Undoubtedly all of these noted clergymen, scholars, and writers kept Sunday, but they all frankly admit that there is no Biblical authority for a first-day sabbath.
Roman Catholic Confessions

James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.

"But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify."

Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism 3rd ed., p. 174.

"Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?

"Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."

John Laux, A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies (1 936), vol. 1, P. 51.

"Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted the Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days."

Daniel Ferres, ed., Manual of Christian Doctrine (1916), p.67.

"Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?

"Answer. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of, and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.'

James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter.

"Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day -Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes . Did Christ change the day'? I answer no!

"Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons"

The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893.

"The Catholic Church, . . . by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."

Catholic Virginian Oct. 3, 1947, p. 9, art. "To Tell You the Truth."

"For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the[Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible."

Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957), p. 50.

"Question: Which is the Sabbath day?

"Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

"Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

"Answer. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."

Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About (1927),p. 136.

"Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday .... Now the Church ... instituted, by God's authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday."

Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Society (1975),Chicago, Illinois.

"Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:

"1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.

"2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws.

"It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible."

T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18,1884.

"I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church."

Protestant Confessions

Protestant theologians and preachers from a wide spectrum of denominations have been quite candid in admitting that there is no Biblical authority for observing Sunday as a sabbath.

Anglican/Episcopal

Isaac Williams, Plain Sermons on the Catechism , vol. 1, pp.334, 336.

"And where are we told in the Scriptures that we are to keep the first day at all? We are commanded to keep the seventh; but we are nowhere commanded to keep the first day .... The reason why we keep the first day of the week holy instead of the seventh is for the same reason that we observe many other things, not because the Bible, but because the church has enjoined it."

Canon Eyton, The Ten Commandments , pp. 52, 63, 65.

"There is no word, no hint, in the New Testament about abstaining from work on Sunday .... into the rest of Sunday no divine law enters.... The observance of Ash Wednesday or Lent stands exactly on the same footing as the observance of Sunday."

Bishop Seymour, Why We Keep Sunday .

We have made the change from the seventh day to the first day, from Saturday to Sunday, on the authority of the one holy Catholic Church."

Baptist

Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, a paper read before a New York ministers' conference, Nov. 13, 1893, reported in New York Examiner , Nov.16, 1893.

"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week .... Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament absolutely not.

"To me it seems unaccountable that Jesus, during three years' intercourse with His disciples, often conversing with them upon the Sabbath question . . . never alluded to any transference of the day; also, that during forty days of His resurrection life, no such thing was intimated.

"Of course, I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history . . . . But what a pity it comes branded with the mark of paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!"

William Owen Carver, The Lord's Day in Our Day , p. 49.

"There was never any formal or authoritative change from the Jewish seventh-day Sabbath to the Christian first-day observance."

Congregationalist

Dr. R. W. Dale, The Ten Commandments (New York: Eaton &Mains), p. 127-129.

" . . . it is quite clear that however rigidly or devotedly we may spend Sunday, we are not keeping the Sabbath - . . 'Me Sabbath was founded on a specific Divine command. We can plead no such command for the obligation to observe Sunday .... There is not a single sentence in the New Testament to suggest that we incur any penalty by violating the supposed sanctity of Sunday."

Timothy Dwight, Theology: Explained and Defended (1823), Ser. 107, vol. 3, p. 258.

" . . . the Christian Sabbath [Sunday] is not in the Scriptures, and was not by the primitive Church called the Sabbath."

Disciples of Christ

Alexander Campbell, The Christian Baptist, Feb. 2, 1824,vol. 1. no. 7, p. 164.

"'But,' say some, 'it was changed from the seventh to the first day.' Where? when? and by whom? No man can tell. No; it never was changed, nor could it be, unless creation was to be gone through again: for the reason assigned must be changed before the observance, or respect to the reason, can be changed! It is all old wives' fables to talk of the change of the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day. If it be changed, it was that august personage changed it who changes times and laws ex officio - I think his name is Doctor Antichrist.'

First Day Observance , pp. 17, 19.

"The first day of the week is commonly called the Sabbath. This is a mistake. The Sabbath of the Bible was the day just preceding the first day of the week. The first day of the week is never called the Sabbath anywhere in the entire Scriptures. It is also an error to talk about the change of the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. There is not in any place in the Bible any intimation of such a change."

Lutheran

The Sunday Problem , a study book of the United Lutheran Church (1923), p. 36.

"We have seen how gradually the impression of the Jewish sabbath faded from the mind of the Christian Church, and how completely the newer thought underlying the observance of the first day took possession of the church. We have seen that the Christians of the first three centuries never confused one with the other, but for a time celebrated both."

Augsburg Confession of Faith art. 28; written by Melanchthon, approved by Martin Luther, 1530; as published in The Book of Concord of the Evangelical Lutheran Church Henry Jacobs, ed. (1 91 1), p. 63.

"They [Roman Catholics] refer to the Sabbath Day, a shaving been changed into the Lord's Day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it seems. Neither is there any example whereof they make more than concerning the changing of the Sabbath Day. Great, say they, is the power of the Church, since it has dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments!"

Dr. Augustus Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church Henry John Rose, tr. (1843), p. 186.

"The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a Divine command in this respect, far from them, and from the early apostolic Church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday."

John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday , pp. 15, 16.

"But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel .... These churches err in their teaching, for Scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect."

Methodist

Harris Franklin Rall, Christian Advocate, July 2, 1942, p.26.

"Take the matter of Sunday. There are indications in the New Testament as to how the church came to keep the first day of the week as its day of worship, but there is no passage telling Christians to keep that day, or to transfer the Jewish Sabbath to that day."

John Wesley, The Works of the Rev. John Wesley, A.M., John Emory, ed. (New York: Eaton & Mains), Sermon 25,vol. 1, p. 221.

"But, the moral law contained in the ten commandments, and enforced by the prophets, he [Christ] did not take away. It was not the design of his coming to revoke any part of this. This is a law which never can be broken .... Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other."

Dwight L. Moody

D. L. Moody, Weighed and Wanting (Fleming H. Revell Co.: New York), pp. 47, 48.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God Wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?"

Presbyterian

T. C. Blake, D.D., Theology Condensed, pp.474, 475.

"The Sabbath is a part of the decalogue - the Ten Commandments. This alone forever settles the question as to the perpetuity of the institution . . . . Until, therefore, it can be shown that the whole moral law has been repealed, the Sabbath will stand . . . . The teaching of Christ confirms the perpetuity of the Sabbath."

http://www.biblesabbath.org/confessions.html

 

[SputnikBoy]

You've done your homework, Lewis. Good post ...thanks!