Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works

[Nathan]

Right.


Not quite right. We do believe, but believing is not meritorious. It does not earn us salvation in any sense.


Consider this: if they DO that (believe in Christ), they WILL BE SAVED.

Actually, God saves you before you know it. You either believe it or reject it.

Satan really pulled the wool over Adam and Eve's eyes when he said they could actually know what good and evil was.

Man is 'dead' and cannot make a choice. Man can't 'do' anything. We believe, but belief is not something you 'do' its something that 'is' - it is what defines who you are, not what you've done. Jesus is the Christ - not 'was'.

Faith is something that is constant, not a momentary 'action' that someone performs. Otherwise it would be considered a "work" and is equivalent to trying to earn your salvation.

Romans 4:16-25 is a good example of this, using Abraham.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Absolutely agreed!!


Please clarify what this means. "bring about the words"???


Where does faith fit into your box?


How does one think, reason, and decide? By thinking thoughts. And thoughts are words, whether one acknowledges it or not.


I never base theology on one's experience. I base my theology on what I read in the Bible. No offense.


Not trying to.


Again, not trying to.


What, exactly, was your "heartfelt experience without knowing the words" that led to your being saved?

I went to a Maunday Thursday service on Easter week.
I don't remember a word that was preached.
But at the end of the service, after battling whether or not I believed that Jesus was God, I decided in prayer he was God.
And I started saying 'Jesus, I believe you are God".
The more I said it, the more it came to life. until I was floating on air, filled with the Holy Spirit.
The message given that night was for me, whatever was said.

 

[FreeGrace]

Your 2nd two statements don't really explain themselves.
Can you do better?

I said this:
"Not quite right. We do believe, but believing is not meritorious. It does not earn us salvation in any sense.

Consider this: if they DO that (believe in Christ), they WILL BE SAVED."

My 2 statements seem quite straightforward. What needs to be explained? Believing is not meritorious. iow, it does not earn us salvation.

My next sentence is that believing is doing. But not earning. By believing, one will be saved. But the action (doing) of believing is not the agent of our salvation. God is the agent.

iow, He saves those who DO believe. The Bible says so:
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21

 

[FreeGrace]

That's a good point.

:yes

 

[Nathan]

Why would anyone equate a birthright with eternal life? Where does the Bible do that?

What do you reckon our birthright is of our new birth?

Heb 12:14-17
Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Absolutely agreed!!


Please clarify what this means. "bring about the words"???


Where does faith fit into your box?


How does one think, reason, and decide? By thinking thoughts. And thoughts are words, whether one acknowledges it or not.


I never base theology on one's experience. I base my theology on what I read in the Bible. No offense.


Not trying to.


Again, not trying to.


What, exactly, was your "heartfelt experience without knowing the words" that led to your being saved?

I think some of your questions here are rigid, trying to fit everything nice and neatly into a box.
I can answer them but why, what will it prove?

 

[FreeGrace]

Actually, God saves you before you know it. You either believe it or reject it.

I will reject your claim until I find actual support for this in Scripture.

Man is 'dead' and cannot make a choice.

The Bible uses the word 'dead' ina variety of ways. But spiritual death does NOT preclude making the choice to believe what God promises.

Man can't 'do' anything. We believe, but belief is not something you 'do' its something that 'is' - it is what defines who you are, not what you've done. Jesus is the Christ - not 'was'.

Either you're confused, or you're playing word games. Thinking is doing. Period.

Faith is something that is constant, not a momentary 'action' that someone performs.

Well, the use of the aorist tense for 'believe' throughout the NT refutes that.

Otherwise it would be considered a "work" and is equivalent to trying to earn your salvation.

No it isn't and no it doesn't. Paul made that quite clear in Eph 2:8,9 and Rom 4:4,5.

 

[Nathan]

Pay notice to the last part of the verse........SINCE they are crucifying(The original language tells us over and over again) once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding Him in contempt. While they are in this state, it is impossible to restore them to repentance( 1 John 1:9.)

As long as we stay independent from the father and are in a state of sin or evil it is impossible to restore us to repentance(1 John 1:9.)

Stop acting independent from God, come to our senses, and name and site our sin to God........we will be restored to the Father.

The Prodigal son is a perfect picture of this.

Right, if they are in that state - then they will never come to repentance - yet to come out of that state, means they have to repent.......yea, I think the writer of Hebrews knew what he was talking about. You don't play around with God. You don't treat His grace as something common.

When you trample God's grace underfoot, you know what your doing. When you leave it, you know what your doing.

This is not the same thing as the Prodigal son.

 

[FreeGrace]

I went to a Maunday Thursday service on Easter week.
I don't remember a word that was preached.
But at the end of the service, after battling whether or not I believed that Jesus was God, I decided in prayer he was God.
And I started saying 'Jesus, I believe you are God".
The more I said it, the more it came to life. until I was floating on air, filled with the Holy Spirit.
The message given that night was for me, whatever was said.

Interesting. But in the end, what you really did was believe the words that "He was God". Simple as that. And by your own admission, you began to say "Jesus, I believe you are God". Those are words that you were saying.

It doesn't matter what "words" you remembered in that service. You did remember the message, which was made up of words.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I said this:
"Not quite right. We do believe, but believing is not meritorious. It does not earn us salvation in any sense.

Consider this: if they DO that (believe in Christ), they WILL BE SAVED."

My 2 statements seem quite straightforward. What needs to be explained? Believing is not meritorious. iow, it does not earn us salvation.

My next sentence is that believing is doing. But not earning. By believing, one will be saved. But the action (doing) of believing is not the agent of our salvation. God is the agent.

iow, He saves those who DO believe. The Bible says so:
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21

Yes you are quite correct.
But I had to go look up meritorious to see how you were using it.

 

[FreeGrace]

What do you reckon our birthright is of our new birth?

I don't reckon that we have a birthright. Where does that come from? If Esau is your answer, just remember that he lived as a Jew in OT times. I'm Gentile and have no birthright. Certainly nothing like the Israelites had. So, no relevance.

 

[Nathan]

I will reject your claim until I find actual support for this in Scripture.


The Bible uses the word 'dead' ina variety of ways. But spiritual death does NOT preclude making the choice to believe what God promises.


Either you're confused, or you're playing word games. Thinking is doing. Period.


Well, the use of the aorist tense for 'believe' throughout the NT refutes that.


No it isn't and no it doesn't. Paul made that quite clear in Eph 2:8,9 and Rom 4:4,5.

So do you believe you did something to have eternal life?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Interesting. But in the end, what you really did was believe the words that "He was God". Simple as that. And by your own admission, you began to say "Jesus, I believe you are God". Those are words that you were saying.

It doesn't matter what "words" you remembered in that service. You did remember the message, which was made up of words.

Yes, but maybe not the words that you specify are the only way to salvation.

 

[FreeGrace]

I think some of your questions here are rigid, trying to fit everything nice and neatly into a box.

I search for meaning and Clarity. I get nothing out of vagueness and uncertainty.

I can answer them but why, what will it prove?

Answers clarify questions.

This is my view on questions and answers. The Truth always has an answer for any question. When a "truth claim" does not, or cannot answer a question, I believe it is not the truth after all.

Truth cannot be stumped. Lies can be. Falsehoods can be.

 

[FreeGrace]

So do you believe you did something to have eternal life?

Yep. But I didn't work for it. I believed. That's not nothing. It is accepting the promise of God as truth. And it isn't meritorious.

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes, but maybe not the words that you specify are the only way to salvation.

Are there more than one way to salvation??? Really? Is that your view??

 

[Nathan]

I don't reckon that we have a birthright. Where does that come from? If Esau is your answer, just remember that he lived as a Jew in OT times. I'm Gentile and have no birthright. Certainly nothing like the Israelites had. So, no relevance.

Every born again believer has a birthright The Spirit is the guarantee of receiving it on that day of redemption.

Eph 1:13-14
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

1Pe 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[Nathan]

Yep. But I didn't work for it. I believed. That's not nothing. It is accepting the promise of God as truth. And it isn't meritorious.

So do you really believe that eternal life is based on something you did?

 

[gr8grace3]

FreeGrace said: ↑
Yep. But I didn't work for it. I believed. That's not nothing. It is accepting the promise of God as truth. And it isn't meritorious.

So do you really believe that eternal life is based on something you did?

So you don't believe?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Are there more than one way to salvation??? Really? Is that your view??

Old Testament saints were saved because they were looking towards the coming of the Messiah.
What words did they use?