So where is the contention? I trusted in His finished work for eternal life. You believed in his finished work for eternal life.
Why is my belief "working" for salvation, but your's isn't?
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Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works
- Thread starter Jim Parker
- Start date
Why is my belief "working" for salvation, but your's isn't?
Nathan
Member
Do you believe if you leave Him you still have salvation?
That will answer your question.
If you believe you can leave Him, yet still have salvation, then you believe you did something for it - and not that He is it.
If you leave Christ you leave salvation. He is salvation.
Ok. One more time. You believe the Lord Jesus Christ is salvation, your salvation. The demons even believe that The Lord Jesus Christ is salvation for mankind.
Do YOU believe/trust in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ for YOUR salvation. Any believer can answer straight up...........yes.
Yes.
Nathan
Member
Demons do not believe He is their salvation. Satan lied to Adam and Eve telling them they could not die based on something they did.
I have been quite clear. He is salvation. Anyone in Him will confess this.
Acts 4:12 (ESV)
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
Nathan
Member
Do you believe you have salvation apart from Him?
Nathan
Member
Right, we 'do' because He 'did'. It is Him in us working. We do not earn, or work for, His salvation.
We cannot do anything to possess God.
The demons will confess that he is salvation for mankind. I could proclaim from the rooftops that He is salvation...........But I will not be saved until I trust/believe in His personal work on the Cross for me.
Do you believe and trust in His work that He did on the Cross For You?
I believed. Acts 16:31.
The seal He put on me cannot be removed. I was sealed for MY day of redemption. Eph 4:30
I cannot be apart from Him. I am His body. Eph 5:30.
Why work so hard to unsave His Children?
Jim Parker
Member
Can't argue with that.
But we do have the choice of what we do.
That's why the NT puts so much emphasis of doing good works.
That's what a disciple does; the works that his master (in this case, the Lord of Lords and King of Kings) gives him to obey.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer put it rather succinctly in The Cost of Discipleship; "Only he who believes is obedient, and only he who is obedient believes." and"...we must never loose sight of their essential unity. For faith is only real when there3 is obedience, never without it, and faith only becomes faith in the act of obedience."
iakov the fool
At the moment, I believe those verses to mean how I explained them to you. Many of us "come out" of the bad choices we make, but never go to God and name and site them. We just go to another "solution" that looks easier. But it doesn't restore us to fellowship with the Father. The prodigal could have said," this sucks, I quit, I am going to my brother, he has some money and food." He repented of the situation, but he didn't name it and site it to the Father 1 John 1:9.
If I am wrong.......It is a picture of the sin unto death for believers. If we go so far in reversionism........It is impossible to regain fellowship. So God hands us over to satan for the destruction of our flesh, so our spirit may be saved. 1 Cor 5:5.
I know all about the sealing in Him with the Spirit. Which is a guarantee for the day of redemption, which is eternal security.Every born again believer has a birthrightThe Spirit is the guarantee of receiving it on that day of redemption.
But where is this referred to as a birthright?
Again, where is there any mention of a birthright in these verses? Or in any other verses?
No one receives eternal life apart from believing in Jesus Christ. The Bible says so.
John 3:15-16
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:36 - "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
John 5:24 - "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 6:40 - "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord
1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.
Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
1 John 5:13 - These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
So, how can one say that eternal life is received apart from believing in Christ?
FreeGrace said: ↑
Are there more than one way to salvation??? Really? Is that your view??
I think this is confusing specific words with the singular message of the gospel. The gospel can be communicated in many ways, but the message must be exactly the same.
Are there more than one way to salvation??? Really? Is that your view??
I would expect that they believed in the Messiah for eternal life.
I think this is confusing specific words with the singular message of the gospel. The gospel can be communicated in many ways, but the message must be exactly the same.
OK, let's go with that. So, how does the Spirit come to be "in me"?
Eph 1:13 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit
And that's how you received eternal lfie. You believed in Him for salvation. Thanks for making my point.
OK, I see the problem. One doesn't "believe in SOMETHING" for salvation. They have to believe IN CHRIST for salvation, just as you have said.
We are NOT believing in our action of believing, if that's your view.
The point, which you have agreed with, is that we have to believe in Him.
I said this:
"It's both. Paul said so in plain language.
"for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable." Rom 11:29"
Gifts and His call. That is two things. Not one thing. I think just moving on at this point would be helpful. The plain language is there that tells us there are 2 things noted that are irrevocable.
Yes, they (plural) are. Now, let's just move on.
This is immaterial to the fact that BOTH are irrevocable. And BOTH are available to BOTH Jew and Gentile.
What does this have to do with the fact that BOTH God's call and God's gifts are irrevocable.
And Paul specifically described 3 of God's gifts before he got around to penning 11:29, and he did nothing to exclude any of them from 11:29. That means he INTENDED to include them in 11:29.
Now, let's just move on.
btw, please cite the verses that speak of gifts mentioned in the covenant to Israel. Thanks.
"It's both. Paul said so in plain language.
"for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable." Rom 11:29"
Gifts and His call. That is two things. Not one thing. I think just moving on at this point would be helpful. The plain language is there that tells us there are 2 things noted that are irrevocable.
Yes, they (plural) are. Now, let's just move on.
This is immaterial to the fact that BOTH are irrevocable. And BOTH are available to BOTH Jew and Gentile.
What does this have to do with the fact that BOTH God's call and God's gifts are irrevocable.
And Paul specifically described 3 of God's gifts before he got around to penning 11:29, and he did nothing to exclude any of them from 11:29. That means he INTENDED to include them in 11:29.
Now, let's just move on.
The covenant to Israel is one thing. God's call and God's gifts are two things.
btw, please cite the verses that speak of gifts mentioned in the covenant to Israel. Thanks.
I'm speaking of what is DIRECTLY mentioned by Paul. He described 3 specific gifts before he said that God's gifts are irrevocable. And he made no attempt to dissociate any of them from 11:29.
This does not relate to the discussion of God's irrevocable gifts, which include the 3 previously described gifts in Romans.
Well, then, you actually did "conjur up the ability to believe" by your confession: "I simply believed that He is my salvation".
How did you "simply believed" if not "conjuring up" (whatever that means)?
It seems this is just another word game.
You've admitted that you believe that He is your salvation. And you've admitted that you "simply believed". Which is what everyone does who is saved. No exceptions.
Just one question: when you listen to a politician on TV and believe what he says, did you have to "conjure up" that ability to believe, or did you just "simply believe" what he said?