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Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works

gr8grace3 said:
FreeGrace said: ↑
Yep. But I didn't work for it. I believed. That's not nothing. It is accepting the promise of God as truth. And it isn't meritorious.



So you don't believe?
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No, I don't believe eternal life is based on something we did.

Eternal life is in me because the Spirit of God is in me.
 
FreeGrace said:
I said this:
"Not quite right. We do believe, but believing is not meritorious. It does not earn us salvation in any sense.

Consider this: if they DO that (believe in Christ), they WILL BE SAVED."

My 2 statements seem quite straightforward. What needs to be explained? Believing is not meritorious. iow, it does not earn us salvation.

My next sentence is that believing is doing. But not earning. By believing, one will be saved. But the action (doing) of believing is not the agent of our salvation. God is the agent.

iow, He saves those who DO believe. The Bible says so:
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 1 Cor 1:21
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Good post. :thumbsup
 
gr8grace3 said:
What? You don't believe?
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No, I don't believe eternal life is based on something we do or did.

Ephesians 2
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-
3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-
6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

We were dead, God made us alive. We did nothing to make ourselves live.

I believe this. I know this.
 
Nathan said:
I believe the Lord Jesus, who is the Christ, is my salvation.
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So you don't believe/trust IN the work and the person of the Lord Jesus Christ? Why is this so difficult to get an answer?

This sounds like you are saying you just woke up one day and you were mystically saved.

AND why is your belief not a work, but everybody elses belief is a work?

John 6:29~~New American Standard Bible
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
 
Nathan said:
What do you believe?

Do you believe in something you did - or - do you believe in Him in you?
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I believe in what He did for me. Died for my sins and was raised from the dead so that I could have LIFE. Acts 16:31

And anyone who has ever lived has been saved the same way..............Hence there is no merit in belief. He does the saving the moment we believe. Bragging or boasting about belief would be akin to bragging about how I breathed or ate today to stay alive. Everybody breathes and eats to stay alive. Everybody that is saved gets saved the moment they believe.....Acts 16:31. There is no merit in our belief.

Which brings me to another point. If you believe that we can leave His salvation, YOU are putting merit on your belief. Heb 6:4-6. Crucifying Christ again.
 
FreeGrace said:
I said this:
"It's both. Paul said so in plain language.
"for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable." Rom 11:29"

Gifts and His call. That is two things. Not one thing. I think just moving on at this point would be helpful. The plain language is there that tells us there are 2 things noted that are irrevocable.


Yes, they (plural) are. Now, let's just move on.


This is immaterial to the fact that BOTH are irrevocable. And BOTH are available to BOTH Jew and Gentile.


What does this have to do with the fact that BOTH God's call and God's gifts are irrevocable.

And Paul specifically described 3 of God's gifts before he got around to penning 11:29, and he did nothing to exclude any of them from 11:29. That means he INTENDED to include them in 11:29.

Now, let's just move on.
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Those two things just happen to belong to the covenant, which is one thing.

Paul's statement, taken in context, indirectly calls our attention to the covenant God made with Abraham, so as to say, the word of God is 'irrevocable' meaning not able to be changed, reversed, or recovered; final.

Paul even quotes the word of God to call our attention to the covenant. "As it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27 “and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.” Romans 11:26-27
 
gr8grace3 said:
So you don't believe/trust IN the work and the person of the Lord Jesus Christ? Why is this so difficult to get an answer?

This sounds like you are saying you just woke up one day and you were mystically saved.

AND why is your belief not a work, but everybody elses belief is a work?

John 6:29~~New American Standard Bible
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."
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It is the work of God. I did not conjur up the ability to believe in Jesus as my salvation. I simply believed that He is my salvation.

Did you conjur up the ability to believe in Him? Is it you work in believing in Him that earns you salvation?
 
gr8grace3 said:
Which brings me to another point. If you believe that we can leave His salvation, YOU are putting merit on your belief. Heb 6:4-6. Crucifying Christ again.
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It's actually the opposite.

Since I believe He is salvation, not something I did, then I know if I leave Him, I leave salvation.

Others, think it's something they did to have salvation, so even if they leave Him, they still have salvation.

I simply believe He is salvation, not something I did.

Do you believe if you leave Him you still have salvation?
 
Nathan said:
It's actually the opposite.

Since I believe He is salvation, not something I did, then I know if I leave Him, I leave salvation.

Others, think it's something they did to have salvation, so even if they leave Him, they still have salvation.

I simply believe He is salvation, not something I did.

Do you believe if you leave Him you still have salvation?
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So He saved you, you had not a clue. And if you leave Him, you did it. Which leaves your salvation up to you.........your merit.
 
gr8grace3 said:
Nathan. That is not how we are saved. We need to trust in His work and Person for our salvation.
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Oh, I can tell you with all authority, there is nothing you can do to have salvation. He will not share His glory with us in this fashion.

I do trust His work simply because I do not trust in mine. I know there is nothing I did, that brought me to His grace. He called to me, He lifted me, He raised me from the dead state I was in - and simply told me to believe.

I believe. I believe He saved me. I believe it was not something I did, praise God, but something He is doing in me.

My belief would not change what He did on that cross. 2000 years ago. I simply believe. If we believe that it is because of something we do, in order to 'possess' His life, then we have missed the point.

John 20:31 (ESV) 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

1 John 5:12 (ESV)
Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Do you have the Son? Right now?
 
gr8grace3 said:
So He saved you, you had not a clue. And if you leave Him, you did it. Which leaves your salvation up to you.........your merit.
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No sir. I had not a clue how to have eternal life. He reached down and gave me the ability to believe. I believe, and still do, that it is Him who gives me life - not something I did to earn it.

I know, that because it is Him who gives me life, that if I were to leave Him - I leave life.

If I believed that it was something I did to receive life, then I could believe that if I left Him I would still have life - That is a lie. You cannot leave Him, and still have life.
 
Nathan said:
No sir. I had not a clue how to have eternal life.
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John 16~~8“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;9concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

John 6:40~~New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

You didn't have a clue how to have eternal life? The Holy Spirit "skips" over a few?

The Gospel message is eternal life. You don't believe the gospel message and had never heard the gospel message?
 
Nathan said:
I believe. I believe He saved me.
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So why is there no merit in your belief, but somehow there is merit in mine or FreeGrace's?

And this is why we will not get a straight answer to this question........Do you believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ for your salvation? Yes or no?
 
gr8grace3 said:
John 16~~8“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;9concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

John 6:40~~New American Standard Bible
"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

You didn't have a clue how to have eternal life? The Holy Spirit "skips" over a few?

The Gospel message is eternal life. You don't believe the gospel message and had never heard the gospel message?
Click to expand...
Actually, I only believed because He convicted me of my sin. I had made a "prossesion" of faith a few months before. I believed that if I "did" something(like say a prayer down front) then He would give me eternal life.

A few months passed and I realized there was still sin in my life. I tried to console myself that I had "done" what was required to possess eternal life. But He would not let me go.

He showed me just how detestable my sin is. And how I needed Him in my life to be accepted by the Father. He showed me that I could not do something to possess what He is, but if I believe in Him then He will abide in me - and I in Him.

I believed that night. And I have never believed anything else since then. I didn't have a clue before then, but I do now. I have definitely done some things since then that most people would think is beyond a believers capability - but through all of that, He brought me to His side - and I know He is salvation, not something that is apart from Him.

No one can earn Him. He died for us. He did not die to give us a way of earning Him. He died because we could never have earned Him.

Zechariah 4
1 And the angel who talked with me came again and woke me, like a man who is awakened out of his sleep.
2 And he said to me, "What do you see?" I said, "I see, and behold, a lampstand all of gold, with a bowl on the top of it, and seven lamps on it, with seven lips on each of the lamps that are on the top of it.
3 And there are two olive trees by it, one on the right of the bowl and the other on its left."
4 And I said to the angel who talked with me, "What are these, my lord?"
5 Then the angel who talked with me answered and said to me, "Do you not know what these are?" I said, "No, my lord."
6 Then he said to me, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, says the LORD of hosts.
7 Who are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain. And he shall bring forward the top stone amid shouts of 'Grace, grace to it!'"
 
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gr8grace3 said:
So why is there no merit in your belief, but somehow there is merit in mine or FreeGrace's?

And this is why we will not get a straight answer to this question........Do you believe in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ for your salvation? Yes or no?
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NO! I believe in the Lord Jesus, the Christ, as my salvation!

He is my salvation, and He is everyone's salvation, who believes in Him - not on what they have done.

Titus 3
4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
 
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