Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works

[FreeGrace]

The day of rememption is when He will come back and find those in faith, and those not. Which camp will you be in?

Do you not understand that the indwelling Holy Spirit is a guarantee for our inheritance? What does that mean to you? That this guarantee can be revoked??????

1 John 5
6 This is he who came by water and blood-Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
7 For there are three that testify:
8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree.
9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son.
10 Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son.
11 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Please re-post and highlight or bold the actual words that speak of the possibility of one who has believed in the past going to hell for any reason.

 

[Nathan]

This is just another example of playing word games.


I have requested evidence for your claims and views, but they don't exist.


Then prove your claim that somehow, broken up statement can be viewed wrongly.

Without evidence, this charge is empty.

It is not empty. Just because you want to deny something does not make it right.

1 John 5
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-our faith.
5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Is someone who disobeys God commandments His Child?

John gives a clear answer. What is yours?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Because they don't say what is being claimed. That's why.

You are blind. You can't see the passages we post. We can.

I have requested evidence for your claims and views, but they don't exist.

Don't give in, Nathan.
He's provoking you.
That shows what spirit he is of.

This isn't about honest differences of opinion about scripture., This is about false teachers trying to lead believers in Christ astray.

 

[Nathan]

Do you not understand that the indwelling Holy Spirit is a guarantee for our inheritance? What does that mean to you? That this guarantee can be revoked??????


Please re-post and highlight or bold the actual words that speak of the possibility of one who has believed in the past going to hell for any reason.

1 John 5
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-our faith.
5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Is someone who disobeys Gods commandments His child?

 

[FreeGrace]

I do believe that the Spirit of God is His seal, not something we have done.

Is this a disagreement with what Paul wrote about the sealing with the Holy Spirit? He said that those having believed are sealed with the Spirit. Are you in disagreement with this????

Do you have the Spirit of God in you?

Yes. I have believed in Christ and am sealed for the day of redemption.

Romans 8:5 (ESV)
For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

Do you set your mind on the Spirit and not the flesh?

Maybe you're simply not aware of this, but EVERY believer, WHENever he/she sins, has set their mind on the flesh. That's what sin is all about.

Do you teach others to set their mind on things they have done, or the Spirit?

To set their minds on the Spirit. The ONLY WAY to live the Christian life.

 

[Nathan]

You are blind. You can't see the passages we post. We can.

Don't give in, Nathan.
He's provoking you.
That shows what spirit he is of.

This isn't about honest differences of opinion about scripture., This is about false teachers trying to lead believers in Christ astray.

It's my call Jethro, I have to respond.

 

[FreeGrace]

You are blind. That's why you can not see 1 John 5:11-13 NASB.

I see it just fine.

What I find amazing is why some people think that salvation can be lost when there are no verses that say this plainly.

Seems they are "seeing" things. That aren't there.

 

[Nathan]

Is this a disagreement with what Paul wrote about the sealing with the Holy Spirit? He said that those having believed are sealed with the Spirit. Are you in disagreement with this????


Yes. I have believed in Christ and am sealed for the day of redemption.


Maybe you're simply not aware of this, but EVERY believer, WHENever he/she sins, has set their mind on the flesh. That's what sin is all about.


To set their minds on the Spirit. The ONLY WAY to live the Christian life.

If you set your mind on the flesh will you die?

Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

Is there condemnation for those who are not in Christ?

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"This is just another example of playing word games.

I have requested evidence for your claims and views, but they don't exist.

Then prove your claim that somehow, broken up statement can be viewed wrongly.

Without evidence, this charge is empty."

It is not empty. Just because you want to deny something does not make it right.

Your charge is empty because you've provided NO EVIDENCE that supports your charge.

And I will always deny what doesn't line up with Scripture.

1 John 5
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-our faith.
5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Is someone who disobeys God commandments His Child?

Only someone who has believed, been given eternal life, is sealed IN HIM as a guarantee of their inheritance for the day of redemption.
John 3:16, Eph 1:13-14

John gives a clear answer. What is yours?

Where does John refute my answer, which I've already given umteen times.

 

[FreeGrace]

You are blind.

Nope.

You can't see the passages we post. We can.

Sure. You're just seeing things. That aren't there.

 

[FreeGrace]

1 John 5
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-our faith.
5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Is someone who disobeys Gods commandments His child?

Yes. Now, please do me the return favor by answering this question:
Does disobedience of any of God's commandments change the person from being a child of God to not His child?

And please provide Scripture to support your answer.

 

[FreeGrace]

If you set your mind on the flesh will you die?

Fellowship with God and His Son will cease, or die. Yes. That's called "grieving" (Eph 4:30) or "quenching" (1 Thess 5:190 the Spirit.

Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

How come there are no verses that say that "there IS condemnation for those who forsake Christ"?

Is there condemnation for those who are not in Christ?

Absolutely. Every one of them.

 

[Nathan]

Fellowship with God and His Son will cease, or die. Yes. That's called "grieving" (Eph 4:30) or "quenching" (1 Thess 5:190 the Spirit.


How come there are no verses that say that "there IS condemnation for those who forsake Christ"?


Absolutely. Every one of them.

Are there more than two conditions of people? Those in Christ, and those not? What's the third? Proof?

 

[Nathan]

Yes. Now, please do me the return favor by answering this question:
Does disobedience of any of God's commandments change the person from being a child of God to not His child?

And please provide Scripture to support your answer.

If you believe what the Bible explicitly denies, I cannot answer your questions because you will not understand.

 

[gr8grace3]

No, clearly not. But doctrine is understood from what has been plainly stated.

I believe one is on dangerous grounds doctrinally when they base doctrines without plainly stated verses.

As I just pointed out in another post, if the sealing in Him with the Holy Spirit could be unsealed, Eph 4:30 would have been the perfect place to make that point, where he mentions grieving the Holy Spirit. Yet, instead of that, Paul emphasizes eternal security by saying we were sealed for the day of redemption.

Grieving the Holy Spirit sure sounds grievous to me. So if salvation could be lost, or the seal unsealed, it would seem that grieving the Spirit would result in that. But Paul never even hints at that. In fact, he "seals" the deal in 4:30 by referencing our sealing with eternal security, which is the same point he makes in Eph 1:14.

If Eph 1:14 and 4:30 do not teach eternal security, I cannot imagine what they are teaching. And no one has offered any idea of what they are teaching, if other than eternal security.

Straight up truth. Hard to add anything.

 

[Nathan]

Straight up truth. Hard to add anything.

If you believe what he says is truth, do you believe someone who does not obey Gods commandments is His child?

1 John 5
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-our faith.
5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[MarkT]

Correct.


What's to assume. Everyone who DOES believe IS born again.
1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.

So we see that the Bible says so.


Again, let's see what the Bible says about such people:
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves." 2 Pet 2:1

I understand these people as having never believed in the Messiah.


If they ever believed, they are STILL SEALED IN HIM with the Holy Spirit. Eph 1:13

If this specific seal could be unsealed, the Bible would have said so plainly. And not in diffrerent contexts. Paul would have said so in Eph 1, to be clear.

Yet, what did he write about this sealing?
"And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." Eph 4:30

iow, in spite of grieving the Holy Spirit, one is STILL sealed, and it's FOR THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

How is that NOT eternal security? Please advise.

If this sealing could be unsealed, 4:30 would have been the perfect place to say so, yet Paul emphasizes eternal security even in the face of grieving the Spirit.

The Spirit is the seal. No one speaks of unsealing a seal. And no one speaks of unsealing the Spirit. The Spirit may be given or it may be taken away.
Psalm 51:11
Cast me not away from thy presence, and take not thy holy Spirit from me.

 

[gr8grace3]

If you believe what he says is truth, do you believe someone who does not obey Gods commandments is His child?

1 John 5
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-our faith.
5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

I thought you were pushing that only those who denied him, or forsook Him could lose salvation?

So now you are saying that believers HAVE to follow ALL of His commandments to be His child?

 

[Nathan]

I thought you were pushing that only those who denied him, or forsook Him could lose salvation?

So now you are saying that believers HAVE to follow ALL of His commandments to be His child?

Is that what I asked?

 

[Jim Parker]

Where IN THE WORLD did Paul say anything about "Israel ONLY"?

In that passage, Paul is talking about Israel.
In that passage, he is NOT talking about salvation of Gentiles.
It's in the Context.
If you need everything to be spelled out for you in so many words then you are going to have some difficulty understanding the Bible.