Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works

[Rollo Tamasi]

Let's check how well Hyper-grace/ Free grace doctrine can see:

"23“For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves. 24“When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25“But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.26“So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.’ 27“And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt. 28“But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe.’ 29“So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, ‘Have patience with me and I will repay you.’ 30“But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed. 31“So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened. 32“Then summoning him, his lord said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33‘Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34“And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35“My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”" (Matthew 18:23-35 NASB italics in original, bold mine)

Jesus said the man had his forgiveness revoked and his debt reinstated. Now, FreeGrace, make it so this plainly stated fact in scripture about a gift of God being revoked in the kingdom of God will go away. Explain to us how Hyper-grace/Free grace doctrine makes it so Jesus 'didn't really' mean what he said.

Instead of listening and reasoning what he is saying, you instead choose to put labels on everything and therefore whatever he says falls
falls under the heading of your labels.
Well the labels are all man made.
Listen to the Word of God he is saying without the labels.
You just might understand and agree.

 

[Nathan]

Yep.


Yep. And It's as alive as Christ is.

Thus, Peter (and Paul) can rightly claim that our inheritance (which is protected by God through it, Faith from God) is imperishable (can not perish) and is unfading (does not fade).


No. Nor do they have a newbirth or the birth rights that go with it (an inheritance reserved in Heaven). 'They' never had God given faith.


No. That's as ridiculous as someone's reserved God protected inheritance fading.

So you believe that someone can turn away from something they never had?

Could I divorce my wife if I was never married?

Could I quit a job that I was never hired to do?

Could I stop believing in something I never started believing in?

Faith is the avenue that Gods power comes to us and flows through us. It is through that which we will enter into His Kingdom and inherit His promises.

Faith is not a singular action, it is a life. There is either faith that is alive, or faith that is dead.

Gods inheritance is most definitely kept in heaven for us because if we had it now we would squander it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Instead of listening and reasoning what he is saying, you instead choose to put labels on everything and therefore whatever he says falls
falls under the heading of your labels.
Well the labels are all man made.
Listen to the Word of God he is saying without the labels.
You just might understand and agree.

Just so there is no misunderstanding, are you addressing me or FreeGrace?

 

[gr8grace3]

There are actually only two commandments that are proof of being a child of God. Love for God, and love for the brothers.

Biblical love is synonymous with being filled with the Spirit. If we are grieving or quenching the Spirit.........we cannot love God or our brothers and sisters the way the bible describes love. We may have an emotional "love" but we will not have biblical love.

So do you believe John was lying? Because I was pretty sure that he said the evidence of a child of God is obedience. Not a one time work done by us.

Yeah, I am convinced John was lying. Come on, we can do without jabs like that. I am convinced that you are interpreting John incorrectly.

Paul never said," Show evidence and you shall be saved." John never said," Show evidence and you shall be saved."

Acts 16:31~~believe on the Lord Jesus Christ(His person and work) and you shall be saved.

And 1 John 5 shows this.......1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

"has been begotten" ~~Perfect/passive/indicative.

Perfect~~the action(being begotten of God) will continue to exist FOREVER.

Passive~~He (the Lord Jesus Christ)did the work.

Indicative mood~~This is a dogmatic statement of fact. There is no way around it.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Just so there is no misunderstanding, are you addressing me or FreeGrace?

I was writing to you.
I want to see you in heaven too.

 

[Nathan]

Biblical love is synonymous with being filled with the Spirit. If we are grieving or quenching the Spirit.........we cannot love God or our brothers and sisters the way the bible describes love. We may have an emotional "love" but we will not have biblical love.


Yeah, I am convinced John was lying. Come on, we can do without jabs like that. I am convinced that you are interpreting John incorrectly.

Paul never said," Show evidence and you shall be saved." John never said," Show evidence and you shall be saved."

Acts 16:31~~believe on the Lord Jesus Christ(His person and work) and you shall be saved.

And 1 John 5 shows this.......1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.

"has been begotten" ~~Perfect/passive/indicative.

Perfect~~the action(being begotten of God) will continue to exist FOREVER.

Passive~~He (the Lord Jesus Christ)did the work.

Indicative mood~~This is a dogmatic statement of fact. There is no way around it.

But we can't just build a doctrine on one verse can we?

1 John 5
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-our faith.
5 Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

So John says that Gods Children love His other children. Right?

John also says that the love of God is we keep His commandments and they are not burdensome. Right?

He also says that His children overcome the world. Right?

So how is it that those who turn from this, who do not keep His commandments, who are overcome by the world - they are still considered children because of something they did?

1 John 5
10 Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son.
11 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
14 And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us.
15 And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him.
16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life-to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.
18 We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.
19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols.

Do you believe the person who has believed in Christ, who then turns back to the world and continues in sin, is still in Christ?

Did John write these things to those who had believed at one time, or those who believe presently? Hint-verse 13 is pretty clear.

 

[chessman]

So you believe that someone can turn away from something they never had?

Of course. Just the other day, I came upon one of those vendors giving away samples of food in a grocery store (blue cheese something). He offered me a sample. I turned away for his offer. Some people turn away from God's offer too.

Could I quit a job that I was never hired to do?

No. What Scripture are you comparing this to?

Could I stop believing in something I never started believing in?

No. What Scripture are you comparing this to?

Could I divorce my wife if I was never married?

No.

Now, back to the 1 Peter passage:

If you have a marriage and your marriage fades/perishes, would that marriage be unfading and imperishable?

If you have an inheritance and your inheritance fades/perishes, would that inheritance be unfading and imperishable?

 

[gr8grace3]

In that passage you quote one verse of, in John 10, Jesus prefaced His statement of eternal life with the fact that His sheep follow Him.

Do you believe His sheep follow Him, or do you believe they don't?

His sheep(His mature ones) follow Him. But the Lord has lambs, and "sophomore" sheep in His fold also. And if they are not properly equipped these lambs and "sophomore" sheep may go astray. But not from eternal life.

John 21~~ 15So when they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Tend My lambs.”16He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Shepherd My sheep.” 17He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus said to him, “Tend My sheep.

tend my lambs~~gently and patiently teach the word to the lambs.

Shepard my sheep~~Rule over my sheep, some of us will need beatings"sophomore" stage.

Tend my sheep~~continue to teach(meat of the word) for the maturing of my sheep

Many of us will remain lambs because we choose not to advance in His word.

 

[Nathan]

Of course. Just the other day, I came upon one of those vendors giving away samples of food in a grocery store (blue cheese something). He offered me a sample. I turned away for his offer. Some people turn away from God's offer too.


No. What Scripture are you comparing this to?


No. What Scripture are you comparing this to?


No.

Now, back to the 1 Peter passage:

If you have a marriage and your marriage fades/perishes, would that marriage be unfading and imperishable?

If you have an inheritance and your inheritance fades/perishes, would that inheritance be unfading and imperishable?

Those are analogies. . They help us understand truth when it seems difficult to grasp.

A marriage that fades is definitely not unfading. But a marriage that fades does not guarantee the outcome of the marriage.

I do not think that our inheritance is fading or perishable. I'm not sure why you might think I do?

If we abandon the relationship that leads to that inheritance, then how do we acquire possestion of it?

If I left my wife, divorced her, before we acquired the inheritance that her father was leaving us, then is he still obligated to give me a portion of it?

 

[Nathan]

His sheep(His mature ones) follow Him. But the Lord has lambs, and "sophomore" sheep in His fold also. And if they are not properly equipped these lambs and "sophomore" sheep may go astray. But not from eternal life.

John 21~~ 15So when they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Tend My lambs.”16He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Shepherd My sheep.” 17He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus said to him, “Tend My sheep.

tend my lambs~~gently and patiently teach the word to the lambs.

Shepard my sheep~~Rule over my sheep, some of us will need beatings"sophomore" stage.

Tend my sheep~~continue to teach(meat of the word) for the maturing of my sheep

Many of us will remain lambs because we choose not to advance in His word.

I agree. Many do stay as little lambs.

If those lambs, through choice of their own, leave the fold - rejecting the voice of the shepherd - and then are devoured by the wolves waiting - are they still alive?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Instead of listening and reasoning what he is saying, you instead choose to put labels on everything and therefore whatever he says falls
falls under the heading of your labels.

Okay, let's bring you up to speed to where all this debate is at.

This isn't just a OSAS debate. This is a particular brand of OSAS that is in debate. Which, by the way, I find interesting that Calvinist OSASer's can't distinguish from their own, but which is clearly different and opposed to their own traditional OSAS doctrine. But that goes back to the 'crept in unawares' nature of this resurgence of this dangerous version of OSAS being debated that turns the grace of God into a license to sin (Jude 1:4 NASB).

So it's extremely important that I distinguish what FreeGrace is pushing in this forum from what traditional Calvinist OSASer's believe. That's why I'm careful to note that I'm addressing Hyper-grace/ Free Grace OSAS doctrine. Especially since it seems few Calvinist OSASer's seem to be able to see any difference between what they believe and the absolute heresy Hyper-grace OSAS is.

Now, with that being said, Hyper-grace OSAS differs from your version of OSAS in that it does not have the necessity for a continued faith in order to be saved. Calvinists assert that it is the true believer that endures to the end and is saved as a result. They say the person who falls away from their faith in Christ never really believed to begin with. I'm confident you are aware of that teaching.

Hyper-grace/ Free Grace doctrine is different in that it asserts that the person who believed but who then falls away in an open denial of Christ is still saved and continues to possess eternal life. I know, that's so incredibly absurd that we have to wonder why we even have to debate such a thing, but nonetheless, this doctrine is tickling the ears of these new generations of believers who are being brought into the church without regard to the issue of sin.

So now you can see why I have to be careful to show that I'm addressing Hyper-grace OSAS, and not traditional Calvanistic OSAS.

Listen to the Word of God he is saying without the labels.
You just might understand and agree.

I know very well the word of God that Free-grace doctrine (mis)uses to defend their doctrine. That's not the issue. The problem with Hyper-grace doctrine is it nullifies so many other plainly stated scriptures. As I'm showing, it is based on the need to make so many plain passages of scripture 'not really' mean what they say. I started out with Matthew 18:23-35 NASB to show how true this is. We will examine all the other non-OSAS passages of scripture, too, and we will note how Hyper-grace doctrine must first make them mean something else than what they so plainly say in order for Hyper-grace to be true. We'll keep count.

 

[gr8grace3]

But we can't just build a doctrine on one verse can we?

No. That is why we have posted many. BUT, there is one that begins the doctrine of eternal security.

John 5:24~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

"Truly,truly" ~~A point of doctrine. Listen very close, because this is a point of doctrine that is going to be attacked by the kingdom of darkness. If we don't believe what the Father is telling us, we may be led astray and think that we might not have eternal life. That we might come into judgement. That we may not have passed out of death into life..

Do you believe the person who has believed in Christ, who then turns back to the world and continues in sin, is still in Christ?

Yes. John 5:24.
And your scenario would put the MAJORITY of believers in the LoF. Because going back to the world and to continue in sin(the flesh), also means.........living by my own righteousness and maintaining or gaining my salvation from all the "evidence" I am showing. Or the majority return to religion[the world and sin(flesh).]

 

[Jethro Bodine]

John 5:24~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Yes, it is the one who believes that has eternal life. Not the person who doesn't believe. It's right there in the passage. It's amazing that Hyper-grace doctrine can't see Jesus' plain words.

This is where Hyper-grace doctrine has to come in and explain for us that Jesus 'didn't really' mean what he said. What he 'really' means is you do NOT have to believe Him who sent Him to have eternal life. Watch.

 

[Nathan]

No. That is why we have posted many. BUT, there is one that begins the doctrine of eternal security.

John 5:24~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

"Truly,truly" ~~A point of doctrine. Listen very close, because this is a point of doctrine that is going to be attacked by the kingdom of darkness. If we don't believe what the Father is telling us, we may be led astray and think that we might not have eternal life. That we might come into judgement. That we may not have passed out of death into life..




Yes. John 5:24.
And your scenario would put the MAJORITY of believers in the LoF. Because going back to the world and to continue in sin(the flesh), also means.........living by my own righteousness and maintaining or gaining my salvation from all the "evidence" I am showing. Or the majority return to religion[the world and sin(flesh).]

Eternal security is real, but only in Christ. There can be no security for those outside of Him. He said that to have those listening understand it is in Him there is life - not in something they have done.

John 5
22 The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,
23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

Jesus is not speaking of a one time 'honor'. He is speaking about the same honor that He honors the Father with.

What honor of Christ is there if we believe in something we did, instead of believing in who He is?

John 5
25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Is there life outside of Christ? Is life based on something we did, or us being in Him?

Religion is based on something we do, not based on who we are in Him.

 

[chessman]

Those are analogies. . They help us understand truth when it seems difficult to grasp.

Bad analogies do not help us grasp truth. They muddy it up. Which is why I asked you what passages you were comparing your analogies to. And why you didn't answer my question.

a marriage that fades does not guarantee the outcome of the marriage.

What outcome? But again, you didn't answer my question about your analogy.

I do not think that our inheritance is fading or perishable. I'm not sure why you might think I do?

Because you compared our newbirth right to it, to a worldy divorce and quitting a worldly job.

If we abandon the relationship that leads to that inheritance, then how do we acquire possestion of it?

Again, what Scripture are you referring to, this one?

2 Corinthians 2:14 But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ, and who reveals the fragrance of the knowledge of him through us in every place. ​

If I left my wife, divorced her, before we acquired the inheritance that her father was leaving us, then is he still obligated to give me a portion of it?

Your wife's wordly father who has a worldly inheritance for her (that's still her's if you fade/perish) or your wife's Heavenly Father who protects your inheritance by the power of God? There's a difference. One's perishable, fading away as we speak and reserved only in her wordly father's mind for whomever her father wishes to give it to (assuming he doesn't let it perish first). The other is reserved specifically for you by the power of God and it's imperishable and unfading (unlike the other).

 

[GodsGrace]

No. That is why we have posted many. BUT, there is one that begins the doctrine of eternal security.

John 5:24~~New American Standard Bible
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

"Truly,truly" ~~A point of doctrine. Listen very close, because this is a point of doctrine that is going to be attacked by the kingdom of darkness. If we don't believe what the Father is telling us, we may be led astray and think that we might not have eternal life. That we might come into judgement. That we may not have passed out of death into life..




Yes. John 5:24.
And your scenario would put the MAJORITY of believers in the LoF. Because going back to the world and to continue in sin(the flesh), also means.........living by my own righteousness and maintaining or gaining my salvation from all the "evidence" I am showing. Or the majority return to religion[the world and sin(flesh).]

Did you ever notice that BELIEVE is always in the present tense?
Just google BELIEVE. There are many, many verses.
Here are a few:

John 3:16
John 6:35
Mark 5:36
Hebrews 11:6
Psalm 23:4-6
Romans 10:10
Romans 15:13
Mark 9:24
Psalm 78:32-33
Genesis 15:5-6
John 14:1
Acts 16:31
Luke 8:50

Oh. BTW. BELIEVE means something very important.
Do you know what it is?
I doubt it. Or you wouldn't hold the position you do.

 

[GodsGrace]

Bad analogies do not help us grasp truth. They muddy it up. Which is why I asked you what passages you were comparing your analogies to. And why you didn't answer my question.


What outcome? But again, you didn't answer my question about your analogy.


Because you compared our newbirth right to it, to a worldy divorce and quitting a worldly job.


Again, what Scripture are you referring to, this one?

2 Corinthians 2:14 But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ, and who reveals the fragrance of the knowledge of him through us in every place. ​

Your wife's wordly father who has a worldly inheritance for her (that's still her's if you fade/perish) or your wife's Heavenly Father who protects your inheritance by the power of God? There's a difference. One's perishable, fading away as we speak and reserved only in her wordly father's mind for whomever her father wishes to give it to (assuming he doesn't let it perish first). The other is reserved specifically for you by the power of God and it's imperishable and unfading (unlike the other).

Chessman,
Just a thought...

An inheritance that is awaiting us upon someone's death COULD have a condition to it.
I could say that I'll leave someone some sum of money, IF they take care of me in my old age.

Did Jesus have any conditions for our being His so that we may acquire our inheritance?

John quotes Jesus as saying: IF you ABIDE in my word, THEN you are truly disciples of mine.
John 8:31

John also tells us that he who BELIEVES in the Son HAS (now) eternal life, but he who DOES NOT OBEY the Son,
shall not (in the future) see life but the wrath of God abides on him.
John 3:36

And Jesus also tells us that IF we ARE his friends, we WILL DO what He COMMANDS US.
John 15:14

BELIEVE, IF, ABIDE

You have an explanation for this?

 

[Nathan]

Bad analogies do not help us grasp truth. They muddy it up. Which is why I asked you what passages you were comparing your analogies to. And why you didn't answer my question.


What outcome? But again, you didn't answer my question about your analogy.


Because you compared our newbirth right it, to a worldy divorce and quitting a worldly job.


Again, what Scripture are you referring to, this one?

2 Corinthians 2:14 But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ, and who reveals the fragrance of the knowledge of him through us in every place. ​

Your wife's wordly father who has a worldly inheritance for her (that's still her's if you fade/perish) or your wife's Heavenly Father who protects your inheritance by the power of God? There's a difference. One's perishable, fading away as we speak and reserved only in her wordly father's mind for whomever her father wishes to give it to (assuming he doesn't let it perish first). The other is reserved specifically for you by the power of God and it's imperishable and unfading (unlike the other).

There is only mud when a person stirs the pot.

I answered your question. If you don't like it that's fine.

Our inheritance is kept in heaven. Right?

So, we will receive it when we get there. Right?

Ephesians 5
1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.
2 And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints.
4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.
5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
7 Therefore do not become partners with them;
8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light

Paul warns us not to become partakers with the people who will not receive the inheritance, but will receive Gods wrath.

The analogies I made were to show you that our inheritance is not based on something we did - it's based on being in Christ.

If you are not found in Him, when the end of the age comes, you will not receive the inheritance - regardless of what you once did.

Philippians 3
8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith-
10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.
16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.
17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us.
18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ.
19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.
20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Did Paul say he had already acquired possesion of the inheritance? Did he base his inheritance on something he did, or on being found in Christ when He comes again?

 

[GodsGrace]

There is only mud when a person stirs the pot.

I answered your question. If you don't like it that's fine.

Our inheritance is kept in heaven. Right?

So, we will receive it when we get there. Right?

Ephesians 5
1 Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children.
2 And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints.
4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.
5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
7 Therefore do not become partners with them;
8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light

Paul warns us not to become partakers with the people who will not receive the inheritance, but will receive Gods wrath.

The analogies I made were to show you that our inheritance is not based on something we did - it's based on being in Christ.

If you are not found in Him, when the end of the age comes, you will not receive the inheritance - regardless of what you once did.

Philippians 3
8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith-
10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.
16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.
17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us.
18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ.
19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.
20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Did Paul say he had already acquired possesion of the inheritance? Did he base his inheritance on something he did, or on being found in Christ when He comes again?

 

[gr8grace3]

I agree. Many do stay as little lambs.

If those lambs, through choice of their own, leave the fold - rejecting the voice of the shepherd - and then are devoured by the wolves waiting - are they still alive?

Why do you keep asking me this? I don't believe it is possible to lose salvation..............in any scenario that you come up with.

Your scenario above~~the sin unto physical death. Entering the kingdom, but not inheriting the kingdom.

If we choose not to glorify Christ after He saves us........we will be called least in His Kingdom. But we will enter His kingdom.

New American Standard Bible
"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.