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Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works

Nathan said:
I really do try to think logically through this, but I'm not sure why the thought of belief is only a one time thought or action someone makes.

What is the opposition to continual belief in Christ?
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Salvation is a one time event and is an action that the Lord Jesus Christ makes the MOMENT we believe(aorist tense)......Acts 16:31.

If this were not true, not a ONE of us could possibly do what God asks of us after salvation................because we need His Spirit to live the Christian way of life. If we didn't have the sealing of the Spirit and all His grace gifts......none of us could succeed in His plan.

There is no opposition to continual belief. There is opposition to ," I must continue to believe or my gift of eternal life will be revoked." Romans 11:29
 
gr8grace3 said:
Salvation is a one time event and is an action that the Lord Jesus Christ makes the MOMENT we believe(aorist tense)......Acts 16:31.

If this were not true, not a ONE of us could possibly do what God asks of us after salvation................because we need His Spirit to live the Christian way of life. If we didn't have the sealing of the Spirit and all His grace gifts......none of us could succeed in His plan.

There is no opposition to continual belief. There is opposition to ," I must continue to believe or my gift of eternal life will be revoked." Romans 11:29
Click to expand...

How could we not do what God asks us to do after believing?
 
gr8grace3 said:
Salvation is a one time event and is an action that the Lord Jesus Christ makes the MOMENT we believe(aorist tense)......Acts 16:31.

If this were not true, not a ONE of us could possibly do what God asks of us after salvation................because we need His Spirit to live the Christian way of life. If we didn't have the sealing of the Spirit and all His grace gifts......none of us could succeed in His plan.

There is no opposition to continual belief. There is opposition to ," I must continue to believe or my gift of eternal life will be revoked." Romans 11:29
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Do you think salvation is not ongoing?
 
FreeGrace said:
So? Does the gift of irrevocable eternal life belong only to Israel? Or the call of God belong only to Israel?
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At Ro 11, Paul is talking ONLY about Israel.
Rom 11:26-29 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

God's callings are truly irrevocable.
But no one is forced to respond.
“For many are called, but few are chosen.” (Mat 22:14)
and
"But to Israel he says: "All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.” (Rom 10:21)
 
dirtfarmer here

So, if it is possible for a "child of the devil" to die to self and be translated into the kingdom of God's son, is this what salvation is? What happened to "the old man"?
If we have the power to resurrect the "the old man", does that mean that we have within ourselves' a power that Christ doesn't have?
I will make this statement: We have a power that exceeds the power the omnipotent God? Would that not make us more powerful than God?
Is there another type of human being, other than "lost or saved"? an in-between, neither lost nor saved?

Here is an analogy: "I had a child that was once born to me, but when that child no longer believed that he was my child, he then became "unborn" and was not my child. He reverted back to what he was before he was born into my family." Did he return to a thought in my mind?
 
gr8grace3 said:
Salvation is a one time event and is an action that the Lord Jesus Christ makes the MOMENT we believe(aorist tense)......Acts 16:31.

If this were not true, not a ONE of us could possibly do what God asks of us after salvation................because we need His Spirit to live the Christian way of life. If we didn't have the sealing of the Spirit and all His grace gifts......none of us could succeed in His plan.

There is no opposition to continual belief. There is opposition to ," I must continue to believe or my gift of eternal life will be revoked." Romans 11:29
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Is there salvation in someone/something other than Christ?
 
gr8grace3 said:
No. The text doesn't say that. Paul told the jailer," Believe(aorist tense) on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.


Is wonderings list wrong?
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OH NO!!!

The dreaded aorist tense!
:eek2

Let's me see.
Did you study Koine Greek?
Do you have some initials after your name?

NO?
Then PLEASE don't speak about the aorist tense since you really DO NOT understand it.

Do you suppose the persons who translated the bible knew the aorist tense?
Do you suppose they knew English tenses?
Do you suppose they were TOO DUMB to translate PROPERLY???
 
gr8grace3 said:
Salvation is a one time event and is an action that the Lord Jesus Christ makes the MOMENT we believe(aorist tense)......Acts 16:31.

If this were not true, not a ONE of us could possibly do what God asks of us after salvation................because we need His Spirit to live the Christian way of life. If we didn't have the sealing of the Spirit and all His grace gifts......none of us could succeed in His plan.

There is no opposition to continual belief. There is opposition to ," I must continue to believe or my gift of eternal life will be revoked." Romans 11:29
Click to expand...
:confused

Salvation is a one time event.
The aorist tense.
You believe at some time in the past and it just goes on forever into the future.

What nonsense.

Please stop throwing out nonsense and explain
Galatians 5:13-21

Galatians is a book dedicated to the grace of God and how we are under grace and not under the Law of Moses.
And yet, once again, Mathew 5:17 is confirmed. Paul admonishes his readers, Christians, not to do deeds of the flesh because it is contrary to the spirit and IF we are in Christ we are in the spirit. Then he goes on to list works of the flesh.

So if one who is saved, goes back into the world, and does what is listed in Galatians 5:19-21, your contention is that he would STILL BE SAVED?

Then WHY does Paul (not to mention Jesus) make such a point to warn CHRISTIANS not to do works of the flesh??
 
dirtfarmer said:
dirtfarmer here

So, if it is possible for a "child of the devil" to die to self and be translated into the kingdom of God's son, is this what salvation is? What happened to "the old man"?
If we have the power to resurrect the "the old man", does that mean that we have within ourselves' a power that Christ doesn't have?
I will make this statement: We have a power that exceeds the power the omnipotent God? Would that not make us more powerful than God?
Is there another type of human being, other than "lost or saved"? an in-between, neither lost nor saved?

Here is an analogy: "I had a child that was once born to me, but when that child no longer believed that he was my child, he then became "unborn" and was not my child. He reverted back to what he was before he was born into my family." Did he return to a thought in my mind?
Click to expand...
Why is it hard to understand Gods sovereignty?

Does God want all people to be saved, yet gives them the choice to believe?

So why do we think that what we do locks us in?

Why wouldn't we just understand that if you are in Christ then you will be saved?

Why does it always revert back to something man has done in order to be saved?
 
dirtfarmer said:
Here is an analogy: "I had a child that was once born to me, but when that child no longer believed that he was my child, he then became "unborn" and was not my child. He reverted back to what he was before he was born into my family." Did he return to a thought in my mind?
Click to expand...
I've contemplated your analogy.

By what means was that child born to you?

If, by the same means, the child reverts back to what it was before being born, is it still your child?

Is not all humanity a result of Gods creation? So how is it that some are said to be children of God, and some not?

There must be a definitive way of knowing what makes the difference right?

So why would we say that the difference is anything other than faith in Christ?

So those with faith, are children. And those without it, are not.

Why then, do we say, that being a child of God is based on something we did, rather than something we are?

If a person has no faith, then how can we say that they are a child of God?
 
dirtfarmer said:
dirtfarmer here

So, if it is possible for a "child of the devil" to die to self and be translated into the kingdom of God's son, is this what salvation is? What happened to "the old man"?
If we have the power to resurrect the "the old man", does that mean that we have within ourselves' a power that Christ doesn't have?
I will make this statement: We have a power that exceeds the power the omnipotent God? Would that not make us more powerful than God?
Is there another type of human being, other than "lost or saved"? an in-between, neither lost nor saved?

Here is an analogy: "I had a child that was once born to me, but when that child no longer believed that he was my child, he then became "unborn" and was not my child. He reverted back to what he was before he was born into my family." Did he return to a thought in my mind?
Click to expand...
How about thinking about the Prodigal Son instead?

The Prodigal Son DEMANDED his inheritance. He was the son of the Father but he wanted to LEAVE the Father and go HIS OWN WAY, out into the world and do whatever he wanted to do.

The Father, as requested, gave his son his inheritance. The son got his inheritance UP UNTIL THAT MOMENT.

IF the father had died while the son was still out in the world, he would have received NO FURTHER INHERITANCE since he had already asked for and gotten his share to that moment.

Basically, you're saying that once one is saved he can never be lost again.

How do you explain verses that specifically speak against this?

John 15:1-6;
Romans 6:12-18; 8:12-17;
Galatians 6:7-9;
1 Corinthians 10:12;
1 Timothy 1:18-20; 5:8; 2 Timothy 2:11-12
Hebrews 3:6, 4:11; 6:4-6; 10:26-29;
2 Peter 1:8-11; 2:20-22

(the highlighted refer to sonship).
 
wondering said:
Are you tired of this verse?
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No.

2 Peter 2:20 For if, after they have escaped from the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and they are again entangled in these things and succumb to them, the last state has become worse for them than the first. ​

I asked about verses where Jesus describes "one who no longer believes"?

Last time I was in English class, having "knowledge" of the Lord Jesus is not "believing" in Him.

BTW, Peter is not Jesus

wondering said:
And please don't tell me he was talking about some teachers that had gone astray.
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Okay. I'll tell you about "false teachers".

2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, as there will be false teachers among you also, who will bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, thus bringing on themselves swift destruction.​

wondering said:
It doesn't MATTER WHO that verse is talking about...
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I does to me.
 
Nathan said:
Do you think salvation is not ongoing?
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It goes on for eternity. Thank God.
wondering said:
OH NO!!!

The dreaded aorist tense!
:eek2

Let's me see.
Did you study Koine Greek?
Do you have some initials after your name?

NO?
Then PLEASE don't speak about the aorist tense since you really DO NOT understand it.

Do you suppose the persons who translated the bible knew the aorist tense?
Do you suppose they knew English tenses?
Do you suppose they were TOO DUMB to translate PROPERLY???
Click to expand...
Your a hoot Fran.:biggrin2
 
wondering said:
So if one who is saved, goes back into the world, and does what is listed in Galatians 5:19-21, your contention is that he would STILL BE SAVED?
Click to expand...

If Paul said,"shall not ENTER the kingdom of God." I would say," No, they are not still saved."

But He didn't. He said they, "Shall not INHERIT the kingdom."

1 Cor 3:15~~New American Standard Bible
If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss(loss of inheritance); but he himself will be saved(enter the kingdom), yet so as through fire.
 
Nathan said:
If it goes on for eternity, wouldn't belief also?
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Not necessarily. If we were saved BY belief and not BY His Grace............we would have to continue to believe in order to be saved.

Acts 16:31~~~~Saved the MOMENT we believe. BY His grace. Eph 2:5.
 
wondering said:
What's the difference?
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Entering the kingdom~~Salvation.

Inheriting the kingdom~~whether we joyously polish shoes, or joyously have our shoes polished. Whether we are a private in his kingdom or a General in His kingdom.

He is King of kings and Lord of lords......denoting rank and reign in His kingdom.
 
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