Act_16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
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Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works
- Thread starter Jim Parker
- Start date
Act_16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
On Him, of course.
My view as well.
Well, your claim here is totally fallacious. That's not my view at all.
Please cite any verse that says this.
Nope. Eph 1:13,14, 4:30 and 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5 don't permit such a thing.
OK, what is here that makes clear anything about loss of salvation?
Yes, for 3 reasons.
1. The Bible promises that those who receive eternal life will never perish. John 10:28
2. The Bible teaches that one becomes a child of God through the spiritual new birth. And any birth, whether physical or spiritual, cannot be undone.
3. The Bible never teaches that a child of God can be changed back to a former condition.
It is for these rock solid reasons that I can answer Yes.
chessman
Member
What words did I add?
And to merely read the parable as "The seed on the rock believe-period" is exactly my point. It ignores the rest of Jesus' illustrations whereby He explicitly says;
Matthew 13:23 But what was sown on the good soil—this is the one who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces, this one a hundred times as much, and this one sixty, and this one thirty.”
Not to mention that you said; "The seed on the rock believe"???
It is important to understand that "the seed" is the word about the kingdom, not the rock (men). Your statement has the seed (the word) believing something, not the man. If you misunderstand this, you misunderstand the parable.
An additional distinction between the good soil and the other three 'soils' is that the good soil—this is the one who hears the word and understands it ...
Matthew 13:14-15, 19a and with reference to them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says, “You will listen carefully and will never understand, and you will look closely and will never perceive. For the heart of this people has become dull, and with their ears they hear with difficulty, and they have shut their eyes, so that they would not see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.”
...
When anyone hears the word about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart.
...
When anyone hears the word about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart.
If the rock would have understood it and had the Root in himself, God would have healed him.
You add soil depth and a root to Jesus' interpretation of this rock example when Jesus specifically says the rock where the seed sprang up (not down) had neither;
Matthew 13:5 And other seed fell on the rocky ground, where it did not have much soil, and it sprang up at once because it did not have any depth of soil.
Matthew 13:21 But he does not have a root in himself, but lasts only a little while, and when affliction or persecution happens because of the word, immediately he falls away.
Jesus says the rock "does not have a root in himself", yet you say "the depth of the root was not much at all". Only one of you is correct. And, like I said (without adding to the passage), there was one example who understood the word about the kingdom.Matthew 13:21 But he does not have a root in himself, but lasts only a little while, and when affliction or persecution happens because of the word, immediately he falls away.
Well, the joke's on anyone who believes this empty claim. I very much comprehend the argument. And there has been NO evidence for your point of view, and plenty for eternal security.
And this has been explained "so many times". But it's not a joke, because I don't think it's a joke to not believe the promise that Jesus made in John 10:28 about those who receive eternal life will never perish. How is that not eternal security? No one has explained that to me.
There are NO passages about losing eternal life. Where does the Bible say anything about losing eternal life?
I do understand your argument and I strongly disagree with it because it is devoid of any evidence for it.
Sure do. He said they will not be forgiven. But how is that "not saved"?? It would be just a huge assumption, that's all.
And 1 John 1:9 means the same thing. The only way to restore fellowship for the believer is to confess their sins. And if they don't confess, they remain unforgiven and out of fellowship, but John said NOTHING about losing salvation. His point was all about fellowship.
I just did. And nothing "goes away" except the false notion that salvation can be lost.
lol
I've come to the conclusion that the theology of non-eternal security is an emotional one. Those who accept that theology will use the worst case scenario that can be imagined, such as a believer rejecting Christ along the way, and being unable to accept that there is nothing that anyone can do to undo their salvation.
If any such scenario is unacceptable to them, it MUST BE just as unacceptable to God Himself. This is basically elevating one's personal dislikes to the level of God. We have no right to do that.
And such a thought demonstrates just how much God's grace is not understood. Or accepted by them.
So, basically, all their defense is based on emotions. No Scripture, no facts, no evidence. Just a lot of assumptions, presumptions.
As I have been following the discussions upon discussions upon discussion between OSAS and OSNAS there has been something that came to me. Those from the OSAS position have indicated that loss of salvation is not possible but the Scripture references brought up to counter that view are speaking about loss or walking away from fellowship and not salvation. As I was thinking about this a thought occurred to me. What would eternal life look like without fellowship with God? It sounds to me like a living hell.
I love your questions! Right to the point!!
I see His words far more plain that others seem to do.
For example, He promises that those He gives eternal life will never perish in John 10:28. How can that be anything other than eternal security. The ONLY BASIS for never perishing is to receive eternal life. Jesus made no comment "if they continue to believe", as your position loves to add.
Jesus always means what He says.
But, can you say this in light of His promise in John 10:28?
Please explain what He "really" means in John 10:28. Thanks.
And, the Bible does not teach that one who has been sealed in Him with the Spirit can be unsealed (or any other way to communicate the notion of loss of salvation) for any reason.
So yes, eternal security is REAL for everyone who has ever received the gift of eternal life. They will never perish, because Jesus promised that very thing. John 10:28
No one argues this. It would be silly to do that.
No, ma'am, it isn't always. The aorist tense is used often.
Why would anyone assume the English present tense is the same for the Greek? Acts 16:31 is in the aorist tense. Along with Rom 10:10.
We don't learn of the actual (real) tense that was used in the original language UNLESS we consult a Greek lexicon, not google.
I have concluded from all the posts of those who think that salvation can be lost that their view is based entirely on emotions.
And since they generally come up with the "worst case scenario" of a believer rejecting Christ, something that is totally unacceptable to them, it MUST BE just as unacceptable to God Himself.
I believe that is what drives their energy. Emotions.
wondering said: ↑
Did you ever notice that BELIEVE is always in the present tense?
Just google BELIEVE. There are many, many verses.
Here are a few:
The mistake is to assume the present tense in our English language is what was used by the original writers, which, of course, is totally false. And a number of citations noted used 'believe' in the aorist tense, which refutes her conclusions.
Did you ever notice that BELIEVE is always in the present tense?
Just google BELIEVE. There are many, many verses.
Here are a few:
But if the only "source" of information used is google, the truth will never come to light.
The mistake is to assume the present tense in our English language is what was used by the original writers, which, of course, is totally false. And a number of citations noted used 'believe' in the aorist tense, which refutes her conclusions.
There are no verses that SAY that one who no longer believes no longer has life.
In fact, we have a guarantee from Jesus. Those who receive eternal life will never perish. John 10:28. That means those who receive eternal life STILL HAVE LIFE. And Jesus added no other conditions than simply receiving the gift.
And I pointed out several that, in the original language, were in the aorist tense, which refutes your claim.
How about a very clear promise from Jesus Himself? Is that good enough?
John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Jesus based the promise of "never perishing" upon receiving the gift of eternal life. Nothing else.
If Jesus keeps His promises, then everyone who has ever believed will not perish, because that's exactly what Jesus promised.
It is in the aorist tense, not present tense, as being assumed wrongly.
No, it is only an assumption, and a false one at that, that your claim is true. Google doesn't examine the original language.
But, as I recall, you've shown a preference for the English translations, rather than what the original Greek says.
Another question:
How could any child ever be disobedient to his/her parent's requests or commands?
Aha!! Afraid of the truth. But, there is no reason to fear the truth. Jesus said the truth will set you free. John 8:32OH NO!!!
The dreaded aorist tense!
2
Those who dislike the aorist tense need to be set free from such negative emotions.
Yes, by means of faith. We believed in Him.
No, it's by grace THROUGH FAITH. Eph 2:8
Oh, and "not by works". v.9
This is correct as far as it goes. But, if salvation can be lost, salvation becomes dependent upon whom?
The Holy Spirit was guaranteed only to NT believers. By Jesus in John 14:16. But the answer to my question was no, the Holy Spirit was not guaranteed to every OT believer. Only a few. For special functions.
Yes, that's the promised indwelling Holy Spirit.
Only in the OT. Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would come and be with us forever. John 14:16
OT believer.
Paul didn't even address any "if" condition. The point remains, those sealed ARE sealed for the day of redemption. Do you know when that is? Did Paul add any conditions for the day of redemption.
Yes. Once saved means always saved.
Actually, I don't keep saying that. I prefer eternal security.
Why would one presume that I'm presuming anything? The Bible says that one is saved when one believes in Christ.
The Bible never speaks of losing one's salvation. That is just assumption or presumption.
Where does the Bible say one must believe "and grow in faith"??? Please provide Scripture.
No, the Bible teaches repeatedly that one HAS eternal life by believing in Jeus Christ.
John 3:15,16, 36, 5:24, 6:40, 47, 11:25-26.
From all the other verses that say one must believe in order to have eternal life, it is obvious that "know tee" in this verse refers to believing in Jesus Christ. This one verse cannot refute or disagree with any other verse.
Not if you also believe that one can lose salvation.