Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works

[Jim Parker]

We are saved BY grace(the merit) through the non-meritorious action of believing.

What merit???
How is grace equal to merit?

 

[reba]

Belief is NOT what counts. If it was, then salvation could be lost if one stopped believing.
Eph 2:8~~New American Standard Bible
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

The merit is not in faith. The merit is in the object/agent of faith................the Lord Jesus Christ.

according to what i read in your post believing on the Lord Jesus does not count.

If ya did not believe the plain would/could make the flight ya wouldn't get aboard

 

[chessman]

At Ro 11, Paul is talking ONLY about Israel

I have no idea how you could possibly have come to that conclusion.

 

[Jim Parker]

I have no idea how you could possibly have come to that conclusion.

I'm not at all surprised that you have no idea.
As I said, the chapter is TO Gentiles but ABOUT Israel.

Notice how it opens:
Rom 11:1-2 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.

And the conclusion of Paul's teaching is:
Rom 11:25-29
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved; as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
When I take away their sins.”
Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

So the gifts and callings Paul is talking about are ISRAEL'S gifts and callings.

 

[gr8grace3]

according to what i read in your post believing on the Lord Jesus does not count.

If ya did not believe the plain would/could make the flight ya wouldn't get aboard

Can you boast to me about your belief?

 

[gr8grace3]

What merit???
How is grace equal to merit?

His merit. I have no merit in my belief. Can you and I get together and boast about our belief? No.

But we can glorify The Lord Jesus Christ telling others about His merit.

 

[reba]

Lost me gr8grace3

 

[MarkT]

And, the Bible does not teach that one who has been sealed in Him with the Spirit can be unsealed (or any other way to communicate the notion of loss of salvation) for any reason.

So yes, eternal security is REAL for everyone who has ever received the gift of eternal life. They will never perish, because Jesus promised that very thing. John 10:28


No one argues this. It would be silly to do that.

Eph. 1:13 doesn't say anything about former believers being sealed or unsealed. That's your own invention to prove or disprove. What it does say is they heard the word of truth, and they believed in Christ Jesus, and they were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13

The word 'sealed' means 'stamped with a device and attached as a means of authentication; anything that pledges.' So the Holy Spirit is a pledge, which agrees with Paul's statement that it guarantees our inheritance.

But what does this have to do with former believers? Jesus said, "He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God." John 3:18

The former believer can not be sealed with or possess the Holy Spirit, otherwise Jesus would be condemning his own Spirit, the Spirit of God.

 

[gr8grace3]

If ya did not believe the plain would/could make the flight ya wouldn't get aboard

So how can you be on the fence about eternal security? Do you believe Christ will "make the flight" or not?

John 5:24

 

[gr8grace3]

Lost me gr8grace3

We live through breathing. The air has the merit. Not our breathing.

We live through eating and drinking. The food and water have the merit. Not our eating and drinking.

We are saved through believing. The lord Jesus Christ has the merit in saving. Not our believing.

 

[Jim Parker]

His merit. I have no merit in my belief. Can you and I get together and boast about our belief? No.

But we can glorify The Lord Jesus Christ telling others about His merit.

Are you a Roman Catholic?
I ask because that is RCC doctrine.

 

[reba]

gr8grace3
I think i am understanding what you are now saying ... although I do take exception to the statement "Belief is NOT what counts"
IF belief does not count then unbelief means what?

 

[gr8grace3]

Are you a Roman Catholic?
I ask because that is RCC doctrine.

No. And that should be GLARINGLY obvious to anyone that is paying even just a tiny,tid bit of attention.

 

[gr8grace3]

gr8grace3
I think i am understanding what you are now saying ... although I do take exception to the statement "Belief is NOT what counts"
IF belief does not count then unbelief means what?

Anyone who has never believed/trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation is not saved.

 

[reba]

Anyone who has never believed/trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation is not saved.

I agree with the above quote...

to my understanding it does not jive with "belief does not count.. "

 

[MarkT]

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Saved~~Passive voice, the Lord Jesus Christ does the saving. Salvation is based upon the merit of the Lord. Not believing.

We are saved BY grace(the merit) through the non-meritorious action of believing.

If we have faith to get on a plane and fly across the country. And we hit some turbulence, and lose our faith in the plane in mid flight and the plane makes it to our destination................what has the merit? The plane or our faith?

Not even a human pilot would come out of the cockpit and say." Who lost faith? He did? Open the door and kick him out!"

Faith in the word of God is what fuels the plane.

 

[gr8grace3]

I agree with the above quote...

to my understanding it does not jive with "belief does not count.. "

Go back to the context of the statement Reba. It was being assumed that belief was the saving object and not Christ.

That God's word could be read like this...." For by belief you have been saved through Grace."

 

[gr8grace3]

Faith in the word of God is what fuels the plane.

So Christ Goes down if we don't keep Him fueled?

But that's enough of that. If the analogy doesn't hit home, It won't.

 

[Jim Parker]

No. And that should be GLARINGLY obvious to anyone that is paying even just a tiny,tid bit of attention.

Then why are you touting the RCC "Merit" doctrine?

 

[Jim Parker]

Anyone who has never believed/trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation is not saved.

Saved from what?