Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works

[MarkT]

So Christ Goes down if we don't keep Him fueled?

But that's enough of that. If the analogy doesn't hit home, It won't.

Sorry. It's your analogy, isn't it.

It just occurred to me that if a man has faith ...
Matthew 17:20
He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.”

 

[gr8grace3]

Then why are you touting the RCC "Merit" doctrine?

The RCC pushes eternal security and Faith alone In Christ alone for salvation? And puts all the merit in Christ ALONE for salvation? Never heard of that before..........I would be catholik if this were true.

Why do you tout some, no, many RCC doctrines?

 

[Jim Parker]

The RCC pushes eternal security and Faith alone In Christ alone for salvation? And puts all the merit in Christ ALONE for salvation? Never heard of that before..........I would be catholik if this were true.

Why do you tout some, no, many RCC doctrines?

I'll bet there's a whole lot you have never heard before.
I'm talking about your reference to salvation based on Christ's merit.
Please answer the question and don't change the subject.

 

[gr8grace3]

Saved from what?

You seriously don't know what salvation is?

 

[gr8grace3]

I'll bet there's a whole lot you have never heard before.
I'm talking about your reference to salvation based on Christ's merit.
Please answer the question and don't change the subject.

Jim, you know as well as I know.................I have absolutely no idea what the RCC "merit" doctrine is. It is just an attempt to slander the messenger so the message is stopped.

 

[Jim Parker]

You seriously don't know what salvation is?

Can you or can you not answer the question?
IF you can answer then do so.
If you cannot answer then admit it.

 

[Jim Parker]

Jim, you know as well as I know.................I have absolutely no idea what the RCC "merit" doctrine is. It is just an attempt to slander the messenger so the message is stopped.

I asked what you meant by Christ's merit.
It sounded like RCC teaching.

 

[gr8grace3]

Can you or can you not answer the question?
IF you can answer then do so.
If you cannot answer then admit it.

Nah, Lets stick to one at a time. What is the RCC "merit" doctrine? The Roman Catholic church pushes eternal security, faith alone in Christ Alone and puts all the merit in The Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation? That it their "merit" doctrine?

 

[gr8grace3]

I asked what you meant by Christ's merit.
It sounded like RCC teaching.

No you did not Jim. You told me I was touting RCC "merit" doctrine.

What is RCC "Merit" doctrine?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Belief is NOT what counts. If it was, then salvation could be lost if one stopped believing.

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." (Galatians 5:6 NIV)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Checkmate.

 

[Jim Parker]

Nah, Lets stick to one at a time. What is the RCC "merit" doctrine?

Their merit doctrine is not the question I asked.
What do YOU mean by Christ's merit?
Please quit dodging the question.
Please state what YOU mean when you referred to Christ's merit.

 

[MarkT]

Yes. Once saved means always saved.


Actually, I don't keep saying that. I prefer eternal security.


Why would one presume that I'm presuming anything? The Bible says that one is saved when one believes in Christ.

The Bible never speaks of losing one's salvation. That is just assumption or presumption.


Where does the Bible say one must believe "and grow in faith"??? Please provide Scripture.


No, the Bible teaches repeatedly that one HAS eternal life by believing in Jeus Christ.
John 3:15,16, 36, 5:24, 6:40, 47, 11:25-26.


From all the other verses that say one must believe in order to have eternal life, it is obvious that "know tee" in this verse refers to believing in Jesus Christ. This one verse cannot refute or disagree with any other verse.


Not if you also believe that one can lose salvation.

You have to keep your beliefs. I notice you do.

So the disciples said, Increase our faith. Luke 17:5 Paul wrote, "your faith is growing abundantly" 2 Thess. 1:3 and 'God gives growth' 1 Cor. 3:6-7 and, 'as your faith increases' 2 Cor. 10:15

It's not that we must grow, it's that we do grow. So in this way we know we have life, because we grow.

 

[GodsGrace]

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." (Galatians 5:6 NIV)

Interesting post Jethro.

You know, I have a born again brother who tells me I'm probably sinning by arguing with my brethren.
He thinks we're supposed to be sharing God's love and not arguing about what he calls "petty" things.

I happen to think that the eternal salvation concept is very damaging because it doesn't allow Christianity to fully express itself.

It leaves out all the things WE are do to for GOD. They make it seem like there aren't any, when in fact that's mainly what Jesus spoke about.

If one just read the bible on his own with no preconceived notions, it would be obvious that God expects certain things from us. Behavior, works. To come up with eternal security, one has to read it with the idea already in their head and look for the verses that would "support" the idea.

This undoubtedly is what Calvin did. Luther agreed also. or V V.

Anyway, I sometimes wonder if it's worth all our trouble to argue about this??

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You know, I have a born again brother who tells me I'm probably sinning by arguing with my brethren.
He thinks we're supposed to be sharing God's love and not arguing about what he calls "petty" things.

I would call traditional Calvinist OSAS petty. But not Hyper-grace OSAS. Leading believers in Jesus to hell through the stumbling block of Hyper-grace doctrine is a very serious matter. I'm going to speak the truth about it, hopefully in love. I've always wanted to serve in the kingdom and this is how I personally can do that. The people who see the truth and, as a result, stand firm to the end will be jewels in my crown of achievement. That's not a selfish thing. They themselves will be my reward for my labor in the building and field of God. Even though we Christians are for the most part crazy I'm zealous for the church anyway. I love the truth, I love the church. That's why I contend for the faith.

Anyway, I sometimes wonder if it's worth all our trouble to argue about this??

You won't wonder at the resurrection when you see the people you helped enter into the kingdom. On that Day it will all be worth it.

 

[gr8grace3]

Their merit doctrine is not the question I asked.
What do YOU mean by Christ's merit?
Please quit dodging the question.
Please state what YOU mean when you referred to Christ's merit.

You never asked me.If you don't really know what I meant by saying "Christ is the merit",how can you possibly say this .........

Jim Parker said: ↑
Then why are you touting the RCC "Merit" doctrine?

 

[GodsGrace]

You never asked me.If you don't really know what I meant by saying "Christ is the merit",how can you possibly say this .........

Jim Parker said: ↑
Then why are you touting the RCC "Merit" doctrine?

Actually, gr8grace3, I'm also waiting for your reply.

But you keep talking about THE QUESTION,
instead of answering it.

It's getting booooorrrriiiiiing...

What do you mean by Christ is the Merit?
Do you mean that He deserves the credit??

 

[gr8grace3]

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." (Galatians 5:6 NIV)

That isn't salvation Jethro. That is a fruit of the Spirit for believers only. Unbelievers can't muster up this type of love........they need the Holy Spirit first. Who seals us forever the moment we believe.
New American Standard Bible
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Gal 5:6 is not saying, "have faith expressing itself through love and you shall be saved."

Yahtzee!

 

[Nathan]

Saved~~Passive voice, the Lord Jesus Christ does the saving. Salvation is based upon the merit of the Lord. Not believing.

We are saved BY grace(the merit) through the non-meritorious action of believing.

If we have faith to get on a plane and fly across the country. And we hit some turbulence, and lose our faith in the plane in mid flight and the plane makes it to our destination................what has the merit? The plane or our faith?

Not even a human pilot would come out of the cockpit and say." Who lost faith? He did? Open the door and kick him out!"

Actually, we are saved *through faith - not through the "non-meritorious action of believing".

Eph 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

The ridiculous notion that some come up with is that their 'act' of belief is what got them on the plane. As if a dead man can choose to do something. Whats even more ridiculous is the notion that someone can say, "I believed that I have a ticket for that plane ride, but I don't have to be on it right now - I have the ticket".

The person on the plane ride got on because they were put on by God. If that person jumps out of the plane, because they chose to trust in their own parachute, then its their choice.

 

[Nathan]

Interesting post Jethro.

You know, I have a born again brother who tells me I'm probably sinning by arguing with my brethren.
He thinks we're supposed to be sharing God's love and not arguing about what he calls "petty" things.

I happen to think that the eternal salvation concept is very damaging because it doesn't allow Christianity to fully express itself.

It leaves out all the things WE are do to for GOD. They make it seem like there aren't any, when in fact that's mainly what Jesus spoke about.

If one just read the bible on his own with no preconceived notions, it would be obvious that God expects certain things from us. Behavior, works. To come up with eternal security, one has to read it with the idea already in their head and look for the verses that would "support" the idea.

This undoubtedly is what Calvin did. Luther agreed also. or V V.

Anyway, I sometimes wonder if it's worth all our trouble to argue about this??

Jde 1:3-4
Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Here was a man who started writing a letter to talk about the common(shared things) of salvation. I am sure it would have been a beautiful letter, full of wonderful things.

Then, he see's the issue at hand, and switches thoughts. He writes to tell others to contend for the faith. That is a very strong action word, that pulls a person from 'defense' mode into 'offense' mode.

We have to go into offense mode because just defending the faith has allowed 'certain people' to creep in. What I find amazing is his description of them. What I find interesting is the placement of this letter.