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Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works

And, FreeGrace, just to save time, here's my response to the Hyper-grace argument that you are going to post again and which will not include an explanation of John 5:24...

So, your argument is that we just ignore what Jesus said in John 5:24 NASB and that Jesus didn't really mean what he said there that it is the person who believes that has eternal life, right?
 
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Was Jesus serious when He promised those He gives eternal life will never perish in John 10:28?
Of course he was.
Are you serious in asking that question?
It reminds me of the "surveys" I get from time to time. All the questions are rigged to steer the person taking the survey toward the results the surveyors want to see.
Are you willing to take ALL of scripture into account and not just the cherry-picked out of context bits that support OASA?

Jesus also said, "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6)
The fact that Jesus stated the consequences of not remaining in Him requires the collateral fact that it is possible not to remain in Him.
Those who do not remain in Him end up in the fire. (Hell)

Jesus also said at John 6:53-58
Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.

Was Jesus serious when He said that?
Of course He was.
 
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I Where as, in Christ its a life, and that of continual ongoing 'saving'. He saves me each and every day.
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Yes, you are saved, and continue to be saved because you ARE saved:)
Its a finished ATONEMENT.
Where many miss it,... is that they dont understand why they are saved, and have concluded that they are to do it for themselves, with a little help from Jesus on the Cross.
We call these types.."self righteous", as they are trying to make themselves RIGHT with God, or maintain this, by deeds, works, effort, enduring to the end, holding onto faith,... etc.
And Of course this is impossible....
You can no more keep yourself saved, then you could die for your own sins and be accepted by God without the Blood of Jesus being applied to you.
The "revelation" is, that God saved you, and you are not a part of that process, you are only the recipient of the "gift of Righteousness".
See...The person who truly and deeply understands GRACE, = understands that Grace IS God,..its His LOVE....and that is WHY He saves you, and Jesus is the means, and our Faith is what He accepted to do it, FOR US.
An analogy, would be, that our faith is the tunnel that God poured the Blood of Christ THROUGH to Wash us and sanctify us and redeem us, FOREVER.
And tho being "born again" only happened once, the effect of the Blood being applied is continual..... and cannot be interrupted by us.
Another way you can think of it is like this....The BLOOD OF JESUS, is like a blanket that wraps completely around us, and we are inside it, ("in Christ") and it COVERS and Pardons and Cleanses away all our sin, from the day it is applied and continuing into ETERNITY, without end.
 
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Yes, you are saved, and continue to be saved because you ARE saved:)
Its a finished ATONEMENT.
Where many miss it,... is that they dont understand why they are saved, and have concluded that they are to do it for themselves, with a little help from Jesus on the Cross.
We call these types.."self righteous", as they are trying to make themselves RIGHT with God, or maintain this, by deeds, works, effort, enduring to the end, holding onto faith,... etc.
And Of course this is impossible....
You can no more keep yourself saved, then you could die for your own sins and be accepted by God without the Blood of Jesus being applied to you.
The "revelation" is, that God saved you, and you are not a part of that process, you are only the recipient of the "gift of Righteousness".
See...The person who truly and deeply understands GRACE, = understands that Grace IS God,..its His LOVE....and that is WHY He saves you, and Jesus is the means, and our Faith is what He accepted to do it, FOR US.
An analogy, would be, that our faith is the tunnel that God poured the Blood of Christ THROUGH to Wash us and sanctify us and redeem us, FOREVER.
And tho being "born again" only happened once, the effect of the Blood being applied is continual..... and cannot be interrupted by us.
Another way you can think of it is like this....The BLOOD OF JESUS, is like a blanket that wraps completely around us, and we are inside it, ("in Christ") and it COVERS and Pardons and Cleanses away all our sin, from the day it is applied and continuing into ETERNITY, without end.
That's interesting. God calls them righteous when they believe, and you think others call them "self righteous" when they continue to believe?

The better analogy is that faith is the well that keeps producing living water in us - not just a hole in the ground that got filled up once with some water.

John 15
1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser.
2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.
9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love.
10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
 
And tho being "born again" only happened once, the effect of the Blood being applied is continual..... and cannot be interrupted by us.
The sacrifice of Christ is indeed "interrupted by us" and ceases to intercede on our behalf if we reject that sacrifice in a willful, unbelieving return to sin:

26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins... (Hebrews 10:26 NASB bold mine)

There is no sacrifice available for the sin of rejecting the one and only sacrifice for sin that exists. Christ's sacrifice does not cover a willful rejection of his sacrifice. You can't have the benefit of something you have rejected.
 
We call these types.."self righteous", as they are trying to make themselves RIGHT with God, or maintain this, by...holding onto faith...
I'm confident that Paul was not teaching the Corinthians to be 'self righteous' when he said this to them:

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB bold mine)

Somewhere, somehow in the church faith got moved over to the side of works in Paul's faith vs. works argument. It is now being claimed that even faith itself if you think you have to have it to be saved is you trying to save yourself. Who brought this horribly misguided, uninformed doctrine into the church? This profound misunderstanding and twisting of Paul's faith vs. works argument has become the foundation for several major false doctrines in the Protestant church.
 
The better analogy is that faith is the well that keeps producing living water in us - not just a hole in the ground that got filled up once with some water.

Nathan, may I just say that is a frightfull claim. Doe one's faith produce living water?

Joh 4:14 "but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

Isa 12:2-3 "Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid; For the LORD GOD is my strength and song, and He has become my salvation. Therefore you will joyously draw water from the springs of salvation."
 
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Nathan, may I just say that is a frightfull claim. Doe one's faith produce living water?

Joh 4:14 "but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

Isa 12:2-3 "Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid; For the LORD GOD is my strength and song, and He has become my salvation. Therefore you will joyously draw water from the springs of salvation."

Well(pun intended), since true faith is a gift from God, then I am 100% positive that it produces living water. This faith is what Christ was speaking of.

1Pe 1:3-9
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.


Now, if you speak of a faith that someone makes up - on a false one that people teach - then yes, that faith most certainly will not produce living water. We know this kind of faith by its lack of ability to quench the thirst of a soul. The person who drinks from the faith of Christ will not be thirsty for another kind of faith.
 
Well(pun intended), since true faith is a gift from God, then I am 100% positive that it produces living water. This faith is what Christ was speaking of.

1Pe 1:3-9
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.


Now, if you speak of a faith that someone makes up - on a false one that people teach - then yes, that faith most certainly will not produce living water. We know this kind of faith by its lack of ability to quench the thirst of a soul. The person who drinks from the faith of Christ will not be thirsty for another kind of faith.
Think about whay you are saying here, that faith is a well producing living water. Wouldn't it be the word of God and His Spirit?
 
Think about whay you are saying here, that faith is a well producing living water. Wouldn't it be the word of God and His Spirit?

Actually, the living water is the well that produces more and more. This is faith, and through faith. That's how you know true faith from false faith. True faith is alive, not dead. A true well is one that 'produces' water. In other words, a hole in the ground that at one time had water in it, but no longer holds water - is no more a well - its just a hole in the ground. :)

Rom 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Rom 8:14
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Faith is not a puddle of water in our soul, that got poured in when we first believed. It is a stream of living water that comes from God, through His word, and by the power of the Spirit working in us. Its alive, not dead. That's why James could say this;

Jas 2:17
So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.


To use the well analogy, James is saying if your 'well' is not producing water, then its a dead well. He would go on to say;

Jas 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works
.

Which is simply saying, "look, my well is a true well because it produces water."
 
So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Jas 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works
.
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"dead faith", is simply a person who is backslidden....a person, saved, who has the wrong focus in life, where once it was all about JESUS..It has now become all about everything else.
This is a "backslidden Christian", and not a person who has lost their salvation because they are backslidden..
And you'll note that James is speaking to them relative to other believers, or other people.
"i will show YOU" my faith, James says.
NOT GOD.
He is ""showing""" OTHER PEOPLE....so, this is the point.
Most self righteous self savers, never realize from this verse that James is only talking about being a WITNESS.
You do THAT, for the sake of PEOPLE, and not to try to keep yourself saved regarding God's perspective.
This is why James says..."I will show YOU my faith". = BEING A LIGHT.....Walking the WALK....etc.
This whole section is James Rebuking and EXHORTING.....= He is cheerleading the believers, he's rallying the team, he's giving them a big time "WAKE UP = THIS IS SERIOUS STUFF, your neighbors are going to hell while you sit there and text and flip through the 500 cable channels 9 hrs a day, every day , except on Sunday when you can do it only 7 1/2 hrs because you had to go to church""""" !!!!!!.

LIKE THAT !!

He's not damning them.
Tho a whole lot of others (later on) have twisted his meaning and his verses to try to do exactly that.....unfortunately.
 
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"dead faith", is simply a person who is backslidden....a person, saved, who has the wrong focus in life, where once it was all about JESUS..It has now become all about everything else.
This is a "backslidden Christian", and not a person who has lost their salvation because they are backslidden..
And you'll note that James is speaking to them relative to other believers, or other people.
"i will show YOU" my faith, James says.
NOT GOD.
He is ""showing""" OTHER PEOPLE....so, this is the point.
Most self righteous self savers, never realize from this verse that James is only talking about being a WITNESS.
You do THAT, for the sake of PEOPLE, and not to try to keep yourself saved regarding God's perspective.
This is why James says..."I will show YOU my faith". = BEING A LIGHT.....Walking the WALK....etc.
This whole section is James EXHORTING.....He is cheerleading the team.
He's not damning them.
Tho a whole lot of others (later on) have twisted his meaning and his verses to try to do exactly that.....unfortunately.
What you're describing sounds more like a withered faith or one that is ill. Dead sounds more permanent that that.

Do you believe it is possible for a person to be saved and later totally abandon, forsake, and deny Christ and the salvation offered and then turn to worship Satan?
 
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"dead faith", is simply a person who is backslidden....a person, saved, who has the wrong focus in life, where once it was all about JESUS..It has now become all about everything else.
This is a "backslidden Christian", and not a person who has lost their salvation because they are backslidden..
And you'll note that James is speaking to them relative to other believers, or other people.
"i will show YOU" my faith, James says.
NOT GOD.
He is ""showing""" OTHER PEOPLE....so, this is the point.
Most self righteous self savers, never realize from this verse that James is only talking about being a WITNESS.
You do THAT, for the sake of PEOPLE, and not to try to keep yourself saved regarding God's perspective.
This is why James says..."I will show YOU my faith". = BEING A LIGHT.....Walking the WALK....etc.
This whole section is James Rebuking and EXHORTING.....= He is cheerleading the believers, he's rallying the team, he's giving them a big time "WAKE UP = THIS IS SERIOUS STUFF, your neighbors are going to hell while you sit there and text and flip through the 500 cable channels 9 hrs a day, every day , except on Sunday when you can do it only 7 1/2 hrs because you had to go to church""""" !!!!!!.

LIKE THAT !!

He's not damning them.
Tho a whole lot of others (later on) have twisted his meaning and his verses to try to do exactly that.....unfortunately.
I don't think a person could truly think James was speaking about someone who has true faith, but is just backslidden. In fact, I have never understood that term anyways - where does it come from?

Jas 2:18-20
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?


I have never heard believers being talked about in the same light as demons. James is clearly putting those with dead faith in the same category as demons.

James is just reiterating(in other words) what Jesus said;

Mat 7:13-20
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
 
Actually, the living water is the well that produces more and more. This is faith, and through faith. That's how you know true faith from false faith. True faith is alive, not dead. A true well is one that 'produces' water. In other words, a hole in the ground that at one time had water in it, but no longer holds water - is no more a well - its just a hole in the ground. :)

Rom 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Rom 8:14
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

Faith is not a puddle of water in our soul, that got poured in when we first believed. It is a stream of living water that comes from God, through His word, and by the power of the Spirit working in us. Its alive, not dead. That's why James could say this;

Jas 2:17
So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.


To use the well analogy, James is saying if your 'well' is not producing water, then its a dead well. He would go on to say;

Jas 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works
.

Which is simply saying, "look, my well is a true well because it produces water."
I love those 4 Scripture verses, none of which say your faith is the well, or your faith produces springs of water as you claimed earlier.

You are digging a deeper hole (my turn for a pun) each time you refuse to admit that it is not your faith producing the well or the water coming from it; neither are we that well.
 
I'm confident that Paul was not teaching the Corinthians to be 'self righteous' when he said this to them:

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB bold mine)

Somewhere, somehow in the church faith got moved over to the side of works in Paul's faith vs. works argument. It is now being claimed that even faith itself if you think you have to have it to be saved is you trying to save yourself. Who brought this horribly misguided, uninformed doctrine into the church? This profound misunderstanding and twisting of Paul's faith vs. works argument has become the foundation for several major false doctrines in the Protestant church.
I believe that there is confusion caused by people conflating "good works" and "works of the law." They are not the same.

Paul said (Gal 2:16 NKJV) ... a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

But about good works he said:

Rom 2:7-10 (God) will render to each one according to his deeds: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Rom 6:12-13 … do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

Rom 12:1-2 … present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, [which is] your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what [is] that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Rom 12:6-8 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

Rom 12:9-13:1 [Let] love [be] without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.
[Be] kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.
Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men.
If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.
Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but [rather] give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance [is] Mine, I will repay," says the Lord.
Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head."
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

Rom 13:5-8 Therefore [you] must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing.
Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes [are due], customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:13-14 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to [fulfill its] lusts

Rom 14:1-3 Receive one who is weak in the faith, [but] not to disputes over doubtful things. For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats [only] vegetables. Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.

Rom 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in [our] brother's way.

Rom 14:15-16 Yet if your brother is grieved because of [your] food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil;

Rom 14:19-21 Therefore let us pursue the things [which make] for peace and the things by which one may edify another. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed [are] pure, but [it is] evil for the man who eats with offense. [It is] good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor [do anything] by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.

Rom 14:22-23 Do you have faith? Have [it] to yourself before God. Happy [is] he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because [he does] not [eat] from faith; for whatever [is] not from faith is sin.

Rom 15:1-2 We then who are strong ought to bear with the scruples of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let each of us please [his] neighbor for [his] good, leading to edification.

Rom 15:7 Therefore receive one another, just as Christ also received us, to the glory of God.

1 Cor 5:9-13 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet certainly [did] not [mean] with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. For what [have] I [to do] with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

1 Cor 6:18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.

1 Cor 7:10-11 Now to the married I command, [yet] not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from [her] husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to [her] husband. And a husband is not to divorce [his] wife.

1Cor 7:20-24 Were you called [while] a slave? Do not be concerned about it; but if you can be made free, rather use [it]. For he who is called in the Lord [while] a slave is the Lord's freedman. Likewise he who is called [while] free is Christ's slave. You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. Brethren, let each one remain with God in that [state] in which he was called.

1 Cor 8:13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

1 Cor 10:7-10 And do not become idolaters as [were] some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.

1 Cor 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

1 Cor 10:27-28 If any of those who do not believe invites you [to dinner], and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake. But if anyone says to you, "This was offered to idols," do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience' sake; for "the earth [is] the LORD's, and all its fullness.

1 Cor 10:31-33 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, just as I also please all [men] in all [things], not seeking my own profit, but the [profit] of many, that they may be saved.

1 Cor 11:1 Imitate me, just as I also [imitate] Christ.

1 Cor 11:27-28 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks [this] cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

1 Cor 11:33-34 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment.

And many more.
 
I love those 4 Scripture verses, none of which say your faith is the well, or your faith produces springs of water as you claimed earlier.

You are digging a deeper hole (my turn for a pun) each time you refuse to admit that it is not your faith producing the well or the water coming from it; neither are we that well.

I think you still may be missing what I am writing? I never said it was 'our' faith, or that 'we' were the well.

Faith, the faith that comes from God and flows through us, is that well and living water. Its not us, its God through us - that is what true faith is.

Whats unfortunate is that many think their faith is what saves them, or its their faith that keeps them saved.

We know that the 'water' Jesus spoke of springs up(continues to flow) unto eternal life. Is there anything other than God's gift of faith that does this?

*
Jhn 4:14
but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
 
I think you still may be missing what I am writing? I never said it was 'our' faith, or that 'we' were the well.

Faith, the faith that comes from God and flows through us, is that well and living water. Its not us, its God through us - that is what true faith is.

Whats unfortunate is that many think their faith is what saves them, or its their faith that keeps them saved.

We know that the 'water' Jesus spoke of springs up(continues to flow) unto eternal life. Is there anything other than God's gift of faith that does this?

*
Jhn 4:14
but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
I think you are missing what you are writing. Because, once again, you are stating that "Faith . . . Is that well and living water."

I've never read anything in the Scriptures that characterizes faith as flowing through us. Sounds like a 'Word of Faith' movement type of phrase.

Yes, there is something(s) else other than God' gift of faith that springs up unto eternal life - the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Jn 4:10), the word of God (Heb 4:12-13) and the administration of the Holy Spirit (Jn 4:23, Jn 16:13, Rom 8:26). Your faith is not the water or the well.

I digress to the forum thread.
 
I think you are missing what you are writing. Because, once again, you are stating that "Faith . . . Is that well and living water."

I've never read anything in the Scriptures that characterizes faith as flowing through us. Sounds like a 'Word of Faith' movement type of phrase.

Yes, there is something(s) else other than God' gift of faith that springs up unto eternal life - the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Jn 4:10), the word of God (Heb 4:12-13) and the administration of the Holy Spirit (Jn 4:23, Jn 16:13, Rom 8:26). Your faith is not the water or the well.

I digress to the forum thread.

Does the Gospel wells up in a person apart from faith?
Gal 3:8
And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”


Does the word of God will up in a person apart from faith?
Rom 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ


Does the Holy Spirit well up in a person apart from faith?
Gal 5:5
For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.


Faith is the avenue all those things(even though I would equate the Gospel as the Word of God) work through us.

Do you think a person will receive eternal life without faith?

I assure you(makes me chuckle to write this) that I am almost as far removed from the "word of faith" movement as I am from believing in zombies. :)
 
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