[_ Old Earth _] Scientists refute evolution, Non-creationist scientists

[Asimov]

Oh',having another Dingbat moment,huh?

blue, I love how you instigate sooo much. Starts with bolding your posts just like I do...you make me laugh. At least you're good for one thing.

Compared to the lost those who are saved are innocent in the eyes
of God. And you said you read the bible.

So, where's the bible verse that said that?

How is V.D. and H.I.V. spread?
What causes all these STD's?

You were talking about vaccinations, blue.

Answer that please,because if it causes sickness when you have sex
with people,are we less likely to get sick when we share our bodies in
other ways? Or is V.D. the only thing that can be spread from person
to person by sharing germs and DNA?
If bacteria contain DNA,it would seem all the more likely that sharing it
in excess can make people very sick.
Is there anybody home upstairs?

You were talking about the flu...How do you think SARS was spread??? Or the Black Plague? People just talked to each other and were affected.

 

[Guest]

Oh',having another Dingbat moment,huh?

blue, I love how you instigate sooo much. Starts with bolding your posts just like I do...you make me laugh. At least you're good for one thing.
:Fade-color You make me laugh too.
Here is some nice scriptures for you 1st John 1:9
Romans 10:13
Romans 5:9,10
Ephesians 2:4,5
Ephesians 2:8
Titus 3:4-7

John 6:37
Duet. 33:27
Duet. 31:8
As I have said before,if having sex with people causes illness,some
even kill people,then what makes you think other forms of human
bodily contact won't help you get sick?
Why put yourself at risk in situations when you don't have to if it can be
avoided? If not,then it's not your fault. If you willingly do things that you
know can make you ill then thats your own fault.

 

[ThinkerMan]

As I have said before,if having sex with people causes illness,some
even kill people,then what makes you think other forms of human
bodily contact won't help you get sick?
Why put yourself at risk in situations when you don't have to if it can be
avoided?

*Sarcasm Warning*

I couldn't agree more. What kind nutcase would spend his life among lepers and prostitutes! Touching them, eating with them....even washing their feet!

And don't get me started with the Passover! Tens of thousands of people crammed in Jerusalem after walking for days and weeks without a shower. Filth and plague and children with runny noses. No way anybody in their right mind would go there.

Yep. None of that goodwill around here I say!

After I have completed my bunker and my self-sustaining farm, the only human contact I will have is posting to 123 Christian and listening to Art Bell.

Unless you have a better solution Blue...

 

[Asimov]

You make me laugh too.

Glad to see that, cuz you wont be laughin with Cthulu sends you to Hell.

Here ARE some IRRELEVANT scriptures for you:

*Insert irrelevant Scripture*

(Multitude of unnecessary commas)

Blue...going outside is a risky situation. Breathing is a risky situation. Living can be a risky situation....what's your point?

 

[Guest]

ThinkerMan:
I couldn't agree more. What kind nutcase would spend his life among lepers and prostitutes!
And don't get me started with the Passover! Tens of thousands of people crammed in Jerusalem after walking for days and weeks without a shower. Filth and plague and children with runny noses. No way anybody in their right mind would go there.

:P I believe the Jew's had rules about keeping clean even while
they were wandering 40 years,amen.
Also,you are not God,you cannot heal the sick,much less change the
ways of a prostitute!!!
Oh' you little man!
You are not even aware that the creator is more powerful than you.

 

[Guest]

You make me laugh too.

Glad to see that, cuz you wont be laughin with Cthulu sends you to Hell.

Here ARE some IRRELEVANT scriptures for you:

*Insert irrelevant Scripture*

[quote:8faa3](Multitude of unnecessary commas)

Blue...going outside is a risky situation. Breathing is a risky situation. Living can be a risky situation....what's your point?[/quote:8faa3]

:D Will you be laughing at the Lion of Judah?
If you believe that is true,then you won't add to the problem now will
you? Simple logic,correct?

 

[Asimov]

Also,you are not God,you cannot heal the sick,much less change the
ways of a prostitute!!!
Oh' you little man!
You are not even aware that the creator is more powerful than you.

I have not seen God heal the sick, or change anyones ways. Cthulu has though, even though you're too blind to see it.

 

[Asimov]

Will you be laughing at the Lion of Judah?
If you believe that is true,then you won't add to the problem now will
you? Simple logic,correct?

Nope, I'll be laughin at you burnin in hell, while I sit with Cthulu.

 

[Guest]

[The Tuatha'an"]/[blueeyeliner"]Also,you are not God,you cannot heal the sick,much less change the
ways of a prostitute!!!
Oh' you little man!
You are not even aware that the creator is more powerful than you.

I have not seen God heal the sick, or change anyones ways. Cthulu has though, even though you're too blind to see it.

:roll: You know that you could seek God if you wanted to,but
the folly of the secular mind says "NO" for you.
Being puffy won't help you.

 

[Guest]

[The Tuatha'an"][blueeyeliner"] Will you be laughing at the Lion of Judah?
If you believe that is true,then you won't add to the problem now will
you? Simple logic,correct?

Nope, I'll be laughin at you burnin in hell, while I sit with Cthulu.

:D [/b] I doubt you'll have any reason to be laughing on judgement
day. I do hope you will care more about where your soul is going one
day. False Religion won't save you. You need Jesus Christ, Lord of all!
Every knee will bow down to him one day. I hope you will be part of
the willing who are saved when the day arrives.

 

[Asimov]

You know that you could seek God if you wanted to,but
the folly of the secular mind says "NO" for you.
Being puffy won't help you.

You could seek Cthulu if you wanted to but the folly of the Christian mind says "NO" for you. Being puffy will not help you either.

 

[B]

I notice a lot of diseases have been mentioned. What is interesting is that, for all of them (thousands) to survive the flood, they would have to have had human hosts. Noah and his family could not have been healthy. Which one had AIDS, I wonder?

 

[cubedbee]

I notice a lot of diseases have been mentioned. What is interesting is that, for all of them (thousands) to survive the flood, they would have to have had human hosts. Noah and his family could not have been healthy. Which one had AIDS, I wonder?

That's a disingenuous argument. Certainly you're aware that the HIV virus is a variation of the SIV virus, and was transmitted to humans from simians sometime in the last century. You should also be aware that this isn't the only disease that can be transmitted between species. In addition to such big news cases as mad cow, avian flu, and anthrax, there are common and prevalent diseases such as TB. So no, qutie clearly, not every disease would have had to have a human host.

 

[ThinkerMan]

While I agree with Cubed B completely from my point of view, from the point of view of YEC's, it does raise an interesting question.

Since YEC's do not believe that new species can evolve, then AIDS, TB, Avian Flu, Antrax etc would have had to existed since the beginning. (I am not a biologist, so I am not sure which are specifically only human-borne, but there must be a number of them.)

Since YEC's believe that every species on earth was created originally, and only extinction, not creation of new species has occurred, then those diseases and viruses must have existed at the time of Noah.

Under this thinking, human borne viruses and diseases, according to YEC's, have not evolved since the flood. Therefore, Noah and his band of sailors must have carried those species among of the crew.

I agree completely that these viruses are "new" variations, but a YEC doesn't not believe that because at least some of them are new species, as I believe HIV is. Microevolution does not apply if they are indeed different species, not just variations.

 

[Guest]

The Tuatha'an:

I have not seen God heal the sick, or change anyones ways. Cthulu has though, even though you're too blind to see it.

8-)

If you were to become saved,you could see it,but of course
having faith helps.

 

[Guest]

[B"]I notice a lot of diseases have been mentioned. What is interesting is that, for all of them (thousands) to survive the flood, they would have to have had human hosts. Noah and his family could not have been healthy. Which one had AIDS, I wonder?

:Fade-color I think you are mentioning facts about Sodom & Gomorrah,
and sexual sins in general.

 

[Guest]

While I agree with Cubed B completely from my point of view, from the point of view of YEC's, it does raise an interesting question.

Since YEC's do not believe that new species can evolve, then AIDS, TB, Avian Flu, Antrax etc would have had to existed since the beginning. (I am not a biologist, so I am not sure which are specifically only human-borne, but there must be a number of them.)

:B-fly: So you do not believe that repeated sharing of DNA from
one person to the next can create new strains of diseases?
The Bible tells us that there will be pestilences and diseases.
But of course you'd have to believe that God exists in order for
him to have told about these things happening from ancient times.

 

[B]

Quote ''That's a disingenuous argument. Certainly you're aware that the HIV virus is a variation of the SIV virus, and was transmitted to humans from simians sometime in the last century. You should also be aware that this isn't the only disease that can be transmitted between species. In addition to such big news cases as mad cow, avian flu, and anthrax, there are common and prevalent diseases such as TB. So no, qutie clearly, not every disease would have had to have a human host.''

I was trying to see the point of view of a YEC, Of course I believe that diseases can and do evolve.
I just wanted to see what arguments would come up against it. :P

 

[ThinkerMan]

So you do not believe that repeated sharing of DNA from
one person to the next can create new strains of diseases?

Blue, you realize that "strains" means species, right? New species developing is a major tenet of evolution.

Blue, I'm proud of you. You have admitted that new species can be created through genetic mutation. Welcome to the evolutionist club!

The Bible tells us that there will be pestilences and diseases

Wow, what a wild prediction! What a clairvoyant those ancient writers could have been.

In 1000 BC, with lepers and sickness and plague, there were able to look into the future and predict disease! Amazing!!!!

But of course you'd have to believe that God exists in order for
him to have told about these things happening from ancient times.

Yep, there is no way those ancient writers could have thought of disease all by themselves.

 

[bibleberean]

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1346.asp

Diseases on the Ark
Answering the Critics
by Carl Wieland

"Some diseases afflicting humans today, whether caused by bacteria, viruses or parasites, are transmitted only from human to human, and the disease-causing organisms (pathogens) seem to be unable to survive for any significant time outside of an infected human host.

Would this not mean that members of Noah's family had to be infected with tapeworm, AIDS, syphilis, smallpox, measles and many more? This is a common 'problem' raised by anti-creationists in order to lampoon the biblical account of Noah and his family on the Ark during the Flood..."

Possibilities:

1) Specialization of the Pathogen
By this means, some disease-causing organisms may have been much less particular about their chosen host, and could thus have come through the Flood in some of the tens of thousands of animal species carried on board the Ark (just as today, tuberculosis carried in cattle can infect human beings), only later 'devolving' (specializing) into their present 'human-only' status. (See also the Appendix.) Alternatively, some which now only survive inside a human body may have been robust enough to survive outside of any host.

A virus is nothing much more than a protein coat and a single packet of information (RNA or DNA). It has no complex cellular machinery, and should not really be called 'alive'. It hijacks the machinery of an existing cell. In computer language, it is really analogous to a piece of 'software' which modifies the software of a living cell so that the 'hardware' of that cell can make copies of the virus 'software'. It is a program for making copies of itself using machinery it does not possess. Since in evolutionary theory, fully fledged cells had to exist before viruses, the latter are not some evolutionary intermediate between life and non-life. Mutational shifts in viruses are not on the way up to a 'higher' form of life â€â€

a virus has never been observed to give rise to anything other than a virus. No informed evolutionist should use mutational change in viruses as a defence of molecules-to-man evolution.

For full article:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/1346.asp