Bible Study Scripture required?

[donadams]

WHO do you think Ultimately put together the canon?
Hint: Someone More than simply humans.

It done by the apostolic authority in the church founded by Christ, authorized & decreed by the pope in 381 binding all Christians to believe!

 

[donadams]

ok then explain why the Catholic church practices have literally evolved thru out time.

It depends on what specific practice

Doctrine (dogma) cannot change and the nature of the church cannot change of be reformed they are immutable and come from God! They are revealed by God!

Discipline can and does change.

And each bishop governs his see under ordinary administration as he thinks best by divine right and his jurisdictional authority.

Hope this helps

 

[donadams]

Funny you should mention that.
Why do catholic priests and bishop were clerical garb ?
Why do they wear such elaborate dressings at services ?
Why is there an altar in every church ?
Those are just a few of the catholic carry-overs from Judaism.

I was referring to the Jewish feasts and fasts ordinances of the law that looked to the coming of Christ who btw wore the special garb of the high priest!

Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new and eternal covenant so there are many similarities

Christ transformed the old covenant Passover into the covenant Passover sacrifice

Propitiatory & atoning Sacrifice of Christ!

Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

The Mosaic covenant had three priesthoods:

Arron and His successors: high priests over the low ( ministerial order) priests, the Levites:

The common priesthood of the people: ex 19:6

There are three new covenant priesthoods: priesthood in scripture is plural.

“Jesus Christ is high priest of the (ministerial) order of melchisedec”.
acts 10:14
heb 5:1
heb 8:1
heb 8:3


Ministerial priesthood: “apostles & their successors, and those they ordain” “low priests” under the authority of Christ the “high priest”!

With priestly ministry:
Mk 3:14 “ordained”
Matt 22:14 Jn 15:16 “chosen” “ordained”
Jn 20:21 “sent by Christ with His authority”
Jn 20:23 “power to forgive sins”
Acts 1:8 “anointing with power”
acts 1:15-26 “ministry / bishop”
Acts 2:38-39 “administered sacraments”
acts 14:23 “ordained”
Acts 16:4 “ordained “
Rom 15:16 “minister / sanctify”
1 cor 9:14 “ordained”
1 Tim 2:7 “ordained”
1 Tim 3:1-2 “bishop”
1 Tim 4:14 “priest” “priestly ministry”
Phil 1:1 “bishops deacons”
James 5:14 “anointing with oil”

The ministerial priesthood acts in “the person of Christ” so it is Christ who acts thru them vicariously.
2 cor 2:10 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

 

[donadams]

The new covenant has:

A Temple
An Altar
A Propitiatory sacrifice
A Triple priesthood
With true worship, adoration, reparation, thanksgiving, and petition in the correct and true faith revealed from Christ!

 

[Humblepie]

He said two things here not one

#1-
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

#2-
(So since ALL authority was given to (((((( ME,)))))) I'm telling YOU to.....)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever ((((((( I ))))))) have commanded you:

 

[donadams]

#1-
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

#2-
(So since ALL authority was given to (((((( ME,)))))) I'm telling YOU to.....)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever ((((((( I ))))))) have commanded you:

So he transferred his authority to them

Also Matt 16:18-19
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 1:2-8

 

[Humblepie]

Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

The power to bind (what has already been bound in Heaven)
The power to loose (what has already been loosed in Heaven)



Your claim is that the catholic church could, if they wanted to, make void the command " thou shalt not kill"

And my claim is that no person or church has that authority, only God has that authority and it is bound in Heaven even if the church loosed it on earth..

 

[donadams]

The power to bind (what has already been bound in Heaven)
The power to loose (what has already been loosed in Heaven)



Your claim is that the catholic church could, if they wanted to, make void the command " thou shalt not kill"

And my claim is that no person or church has that authority, only God has that authority and it is bound in Heaven even if the church loosed it on earth..

Did Jesus change the commandments?

 

[Humblepie]

Jesus change the commandments?

No.
Matt 28:20
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

Matt 19:16-19

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


John 14:15

15 “If you love me, keep my commands.

John 14:24
24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Not Jesus words.....
GODS Word.


Don't make God out to be wishy washy. He doesn't mince words. His will is never changing.

Jesus Teaching
Sermon on the mount.

Matt 5:10
Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

(what has God willed us to do on earth)
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

to be perfect you have to keep the law perfectly.
(Thank God for Grace)

Matt 5:18-19
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[donadams]

No.
Matt 28:20
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

Matt 19:16-19

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


John 14:15

15 “If you love me, keep my commands.

John 14:24
24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Not Jesus words.....
GODS Word.


Don't make God out to be wishy washy. He doesn't mince words. His will is never changing.

Jesus Teaching
Sermon on the mount.

Matt 5:10
Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

(what has God willed us to do on earth)
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

to be perfect you have to keep the law perfectly.
(Thank God for Grace)

Matt 5:18-19
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

No? Really?
Matt 5 21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

 

[Humblepie]

No? Really?
Matt 5 21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

So you feel he changed the law?
He didn't change it, he is explaining what the SPIRIT of the law is and how to fulfill it like he did. not just the word of the law, but the true obedience behind the law.

So no, he didn't change it, he lived it in spirit and in letter and he commanded his apostles teach what he taught.

His last words were this before he went up in the clouds.

Matt 28:20
20 Teaching them to observe ((((((all)))))) things whatsoever I have commanded you:

 

[Humblepie]

Dona

Your claim is that the catholic church could, if they wanted to, make void the command " thou shalt not kill"

And my claim is that no person or church has that authority, only God has that authority and it is bound in Heaven even if the church loosed it on earth..

 

[Humblepie]

And it is of divine origin and therefore eternal and cannot be reformed!

Kind of like this huh Don?

15 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;

 

[donadams]

So you feel he changed the law?
He didn't change it, he is explaining what the SPIRIT of the law is and how to fulfill it like he did. not just the word of the law, but the true obedience behind the law.

So no, he didn't change it, he lived it in spirit and in letter and he commanded his apostles teach what he taught.

His last words were this before he went up in the clouds.

Matt 28:20
20 Teaching them to observe ((((((all)))))) things whatsoever I have commanded you:

Then why did the Jews take up stones to kill him?

 

[Humblepie]

Then why did the Jews take up stones to kill him?

Acts 6:13-14

13 And set up(((((false)))))witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, ((((and the law))))

14 For we have heard him say, that this (((Jesus)))of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall (((((change the customs which Moses delivered us.)))))

It tells us right there that they taught no such thing.
They lied. And you bought the lie as well just like Saul. Jesus showed Saul the error and he believed. What about you.

 

[Humblepie]

You still have no reply about this.
It's probably because it's absurd.
We all know that ALL power is not given to the catholic church.

Your claim is that the catholic church could, if they wanted to, make void the command " thou shalt not kill"

And my claim is that no person or church has that authority, only God has that authority and it is bound in Heaven even if the church loosed it on earth..

 

[Hopeful 2]

That’s fine but it still does give us the ability to determine doctrine and the Christian faith!

The Christian faith is revealed by Christ to his church with the command to teach all men! Matt 28:19 Jude 1:3
Thks

Those commands don't include single pastors.
They don't include accommodation for sin.
They don't include ornate costumes for services.
They don't include hordes of wealth.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I was referring to the Jewish feasts and fasts ordinances of the law that looked to the coming of Christ who btw wore the special garb of the high priest!

That didn't answer any of my questions, but it did nullify your POV that your "church" is not adopting Jewish ways

Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new and eternal covenant so there are many similarities

"Adoptions" breed dissimilarities.
You are dragging the worthless forward.

Christ transformed the old covenant Passover into the covenant Passover sacrifice

Christ fulfilled the Passover, so it doesn't need transformation.

 

[donadams]

That didn't answer any of my questions, but it did nullify your POV that your "church" is not adopting Jewish ways

"Adoptions" breed dissimilarities.
You are dragging the worthless forward.

Christ fulfilled the Passover, so it doesn't need transformation.

Christ is our Passover!

1 cor 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

The Passover sacrifice is a perpetual sacrifice

Christ is eternal priest (heb 7:17) and the nature of a priest is offering sacrifice, an eternal sacrifice, and his priests also offer the same sacrifice!

Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

Fundamentalist blindness does not see that the vast majority of those who claim to be Christians that have ever existed, that exist now, or ever will, including all the apostles, bishops, fathers, doctors, martyrs, & saints are catholic!

 

[Humblepie]

including (((all))) the apostles, (((bishops,)))

I find that impossible to believe.


In March 2018, Archbishop Anthony Apuron of Guam was removed from office by the Vatican. Apuron had been accused of sexually molesting altar boys in the late 1970s. Moreover, in the latest case, priest Louis Brouillard was charged for having raped altar boys during "sleepovers" as a teenager.