Bible Study Scripture required?

[donadams]

When was David king over all Born Again Christians?



I doubt anybody has ever observed Mary giving birth to new people. She been dead a long time bro.



Who is hamas attacking?




Since when was David Star ever a symbol of salvation?



No; God does not change. He made a WHOLE NEW one.
click link:
Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the ...
Matthew debunks you Assertion!!






RCC doctrine.





why do RCC's insist on using statues of dead ppl... imho that is unsettling.

which church... Born Again Christians... or RCC....
wow hard choice! /s


Born Again, NOT RCC.



yeah thats why Born Again Christians will always have the higher ground and the house built on ROCK.
not evolving rcc teachings.

New covenant is the new Israel the heavenly Jerusalem
Holy mother church
Gal 4:26

How does a man become born again?
Can you be saved without a priest?

Thks

 

[donadams]

When was David king over all Born Again Christians?



I doubt anybody has ever observed Mary giving birth to new people. She been dead a long time bro.



Who is hamas attacking?




Since when was David Star ever a symbol of salvation?



No; God does not change. He made a WHOLE NEW one.
click link:
Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the ...
Matthew debunks you Assertion!!






RCC doctrine.





why do RCC's insist on using statues of dead ppl... imho that is unsettling.

which church... Born Again Christians... or RCC....
wow hard choice! /s


Born Again, NOT RCC.



yeah thats why Born Again Christians will always have the higher ground and the house built on ROCK.
not evolving rcc teachings.

Sacraments are biblical
The old covenant had sacraments and ordinances

The word oath or sacred promise from God is a sacrament

Seven Sacraments are instituted by Christ that applies His grace for the salvation of our souls!

Heb 8:8 better sacraments
Lk 1:72
Acts 2:39 referring to ez 36:25-27
Acts 1:4
Acts 2:33
Acts 13:23
Acts 13:32
Acts 26:6
Acts 26:7
Rom 1:2
2 Tim 1:1-2
2 pet 1:4
1 Jn 2:25 and many more!


“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (Includes infants)

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

 

[donadams]

Ew. K

Not at all, How did you come to that conclusion by reading my replies?

The Bible specifically states that we should not make graven images, nor bow down to them etc. There're a handful of times God specifically allowed it but again this is the exception and not the rule. As a rule one is never to bow down to graven images. The angels on the ark of the covenant is an exception and not even one that the masses see regularly as it was hid in the holy of holies. The brass serpent I haven't done much study into but it seems to me to be an allusion to the work of Christ.

What about a crucifix?

 

[donadams]

That's referring to a woman talking paul and silas . I see no reason to think it helps the rcc's claim of being the true church stand on its own 2 feet.

Paul is a catholic and an apostle and not scripture alone

 

[donadams]

it what?
you covered a lot of his post so idk what the 'it' is.

Lol!

You'll have to elaborate a bit on this, I don't see your follow on point as being relevant to anything I've said.

I believe the scripture, what I don't believe is scraps of verses taken out of their appropriate context.

It is in opposition to the doctrine of “scripture alone”!

why? even one word is still the inspired word of God!

One word of Christ is eternal!

 

[donadams]

verse? thx

Reason
How can you require the impossible?

To be a requirement it must be possible

That’s why we baptize infants
Acts 2:38-39
Repent and be baptized
They can’t repent
They have no personal sin to repent of so that part is obviously not a requirement

 

[donadams]

You can talk about the Apostles all day, but that does not support RCC dogma one bit.
If you are correct, Apostles are simply BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS. The specific Biblical Apostles were, (idk about Judas, or even if he was one, i just know he was a Disciple until he betrayed.).

You don’t believe catholic dogma?
Not even one of the 255 dogmas?

 

[donadams]

You can talk about the Apostles all day, but that does not support RCC dogma one bit.
If you are correct, Apostles are simply BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS. The specific Biblical Apostles were, (idk about Judas, or even if he was one, i just know he was a Disciple until he betrayed.).

And Moses was just an Israelite!

 

[donadams]

You can talk about the Apostles all day, but that does not support RCC dogma one bit.
If you are correct, Apostles are simply BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS. The specific Biblical Apostles were, (idk about Judas, or even if he was one, i just know he was a Disciple until he betrayed.).

Do the apostles have the same authority as Christ?

 

[donadams]

So its the pillar of truth and not truth.
JESUS is The Word.
THE BIBLE is also The Word.
BUT - the CHURCH is the PILLAR. so its NOT the Word.
the Church simply exalts Jesus.

Is the truth and is the mystical body of christ

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Christ and His church are one!
((Inseparable unity))
Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

 

[donadams]

Authority over what? youll have to define that, and specify what that authority is over.

The church
The kingdom
The new covenant

 

[donadams]

so?
I do not think we have been stating that it was always Sola Scriptura.
Before the Biblical Books were penned, the concept Sola Scriptura was not around on the earth.
SS applies to THESE TIMES.

You don’t believe that Christ and his church are the source of truth and the rule of faith for all Christians?

 

[donadams]

note the present tense 'is'.

Meaning what?

 

[donadams]

note the present tense 'is'.

Where does scripture say scripture alone?

Where does scripture tell us what scripture is?

Example
What is the 2nd commandment according to scripture

 

[secretmessenger]

What about a crucifix?

is it an image carved or hewn of stone, or melted and pored from metal? Is it an image made by human hands of any thing in heaven or in earth or under the earth?

Is it an item a weak brother in christ might be tempted to worship? If any of these things be true then the very word of the Lord as written by the true apostles which were made known to be apostles by reason of the miracles they wrought and the Word of their testimony declares using them to be something that Christianity in general should abstain from in general worship.

 

[donadams]

I feel like you ate just fishing for concessions now, show me one person who bears the mark of a true apostle, that is the same power and authority in fulness such as the original apostles that built the foundation of the church had: Raising the dead, healing the sick, speaking in unknown tongues, not dying from poisons, and etc. A person such as this who preaches the word of God in truth will have the full authority required for his or her writings to be considered even close to the ballpark of the authority of the written scripture we have today.

Just a little learning about what you believe is all

Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21 acts 1:8 all implies that the apostles continue till christ returns

The fullness of revelation was given by christ before he ascended there is no new revelation

 

[secretmessenger]

Just a little learning about what you believe is all

Ok great, your challenges are also helping me sharpen my own understanding of what I believe lol, I hope the process is mutual even if we are in opposition on key points, we are not enemies in the grand scheme of things, after all we both believe that Jesus is the risen Lamb of God. At least I think we both do haha.

Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21 acts 1:8 all implies that the apostles continue till christ returns

Ok so I read these in context to refresh me on these verses, and in context Jesus is specifically speaking directly to the apostles that learned from Him, I cannot see in context the implication that the apostleship specifically continues untill Christ returns, neither do I see it made mention that it should end. This then seems to be a neutral ground neither for nor against the views you have expressed so far.

The fullness of revelation was given by christ before he ascended there is no new revelation

This one I will have to disagree on in part, as Christ hadn't given the vision to John yet concerning the end of days. Now I can agree that there hasn't seemed to be any real new revelation since then, neither would I expect there to be unless someone is raised up a real apostle like in the days of Jesus and the original group of apostles.

 

[donadams]

is it an image carved or hewn of stone, or melted and pored from metal? Is it an image made by human hands of any thing in heaven or in earth or under the earth?

Is it an item a weak brother in christ might be tempted to worship? If any of these things be true then the very word of the Lord as written by the true apostles which were made known to be apostles by reason of the miracles they wrought and the Word of their testimony declares using them to be something that Christianity in general should abstain from in general worship.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Are graven images forbidden by the second commandment according to scripture?
Do you know where this is?

 

[donadams]

Ok great, your challenges are also helping me sharpen my own understanding of what I believe lol, I hope the process is mutual even if we are in opposition on key points, we are not enemies in the grand scheme of things, after all we both believe that Jesus is the risen Lamb of God. At least I think we both do haha.

Ok so I read these in context to refresh me on these verses, and in context Jesus is specifically speaking directly to the apostles that learned from Him, I cannot see in context the implication that the apostleship specifically continues untill Christ returns, neither do I see it made mention that it should end. This then seems to be a neutral ground neither for nor against the views you have expressed so far.

This one I will have to disagree on in part, as Christ hadn't given the vision to John yet concerning the end of days. Now I can agree that there hasn't seemed to be any real new revelation since then, neither would I expect there to be unless someone is raised up a real apostle like in the days of Jesus and the original group of apostles.

Agree with the first part. Thanks

How can the original apostles teach all nations? The USA was not a nation till 1776 and how could they go to the ends of the earth before Columbus discovered the new world

Acts 1:15-26 new apostles

Also Christ had authority to make and send apostles
The apostles had the same authority Jn20:21-23

Nations still need yo be taught
Disciples need baptism
Sin needs to be forgiven

Thks

 

[secretmessenger]

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

This language to me is in more keeping with the idea of making oneself as though one knows nothing except the topic at hand, I don't see where it has any value in proving that graven images are acceptable in context.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Again here in context with chapter 2 we see paul saying he is crucified with with christ, and if this verse is indeed strictly littoral I can see it as a positive to your point of view on this. Now, we know he wasn't literally crucified so it would seem to lean more towards poetic types of language rather than strictly litteral ones so I am more inclined to believe that this is not paul saying he brought a literal crucifix when he preached, but rather made the arguments for salvation and Jesus death obvious to them, maybe he brought proof to put before their eyes or some such thing as that.

Are graven images forbidden by the second commandment according to scripture?
Do you know where this is?

Yeah that's in exodus 20
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Now we know we are not under the law, nevertheless all scripture is relevant for us even today. I can expound upon this later in the day.

Agree with the first part. Thanks

How can the original apostles teach all nations? The USA was not a nation till 1776 and how could they go to the ends of the earth before Columbus discovered the new world

They did teach all the known world of that time, now we can most certainly agree that the great commission goes on today, however this doesn't nessesitate new apostles, especially seeing as how not one new apostle that walks in the real and tangible power of God to perform miracles has risen since.

Acts 1:15-26 new apostles

Acts 21 states the specific requirement of "these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us" which is a principle and scripture i believe supports my view on this issue in context.

Also Christ had authority to make and send apostles
The apostles had the same authority Jn20:21-23

Again what is the mark in scripture of these apostles? Real Power and authority to do actual verifiable miracles is it not?

Nations still need yo be taught

Yes

Disciples need baptism

Yes

Sin needs to be forgiven

Of course