Bible Study Scripture required?

[donadams]

Replacement theology. Mother of WHO or WHAT exactly?
if it is not the mother of anything then WHY bother with a meaningless title??

Replacement theology

Christ replaces David as king! Lk 1:32-33

The new covenant replaces the mosaic covenant! Matt 21:43 heb 8:13 heb 8:6 heb 9:15
Gal 4 new Jerusalem / new creation
Mary mother of all those living in the new creation of Jesus Christ replaces eve as the mother of the living! Jn 19:26 rev 12:17

The new covenant church is the new Israel! Matt 21:43

The cross replaces the Star of David as the symbol of salvation!


Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new covenant
Heb 10:9

Promises!


The new covenant is based on God’s promises, sacred oath’s or sacraments!

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

 

[Humblepie]

The new covenant is holy mother church gal 4:26
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

No....

What is the context of chapter 4?

What is the context of the WHOLE LETTER?

Galatians is a letter and should be read in context as a letter.

Your interpretation missed the mark.

The problem with your interpretation of scripture is your pre-conceived notions.

You read scripture with bias.
Scripture says what you want it to say and you are unwilling to consider that your pre-conceived notions are incorrect.
I don't think you even ponder the scripture that others quoted because you are so entrenched in your own belief.

You only post verse addresses instead of the verse itself and most of your verses don't pass the test.

Instead of copy and paste, try using the spirit to guide you.


As much as you would like, there isn't a verse in the whole Bible that proves your claim that the RCC is the one true body of christ.

Just because you claim Peter as your first pope, doesn't mean it's truth.

Anyone can claim him as theirs.

The apostles of christ followed all the laws of moses before and after christ death.

They observed food laws,
Feast days, the Sabbath.

The RCC follows none of those teachings. It is not the same church. It's evident through scripture.

RCC is a horse of a different color.


You should spend more time reading post and not be so jumpy to just reply as fast and as much as you can.

Copy and pasting shouldn't be your go to response.

 

[donadams]

Well sure but this is a very lazy argument, of course if it is something God specifically told them to make then it does not qualify as a graven image as mentioned in the 10 commandments. This is the exception not the rule, to say then that the because there is an exception on two very specific God instructed items then it's OK to have graven images of saints and mary everywhere is just an example of us making excuses for a sinful practice.

The church has authority from Christ and approves images

But not worship of them but God alone!

 

[donadams]

Also I personally don't recognize any writings to supercede scripture in the least nor do I hang on the words of any priest etc, I rely only on scripture to clarify how to live a Godly life so it will do you no good to declare so and so says such and such or different so on the authority of Christ when the Bible very specifically teaches something else.

That’s not what scripture says

(((Not scripture alone)))

Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Scripture and the person of an apostle have same effect same authority

1. 1 John 1:4
   And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
2. 2 John 1:12
   Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

*****
We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)
Sacred Scripture according to the churches cannon and interpretation? Yes!
Scripture alone? No!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things by, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

One shepherd and one fold! Jn 10:16

The truth of the Christian faith and the church are of divine origin and cannot be reformed!

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17 1 Jn 4:6

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the canon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

The Christian faith is revealed by Christ!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the canon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

 

[secretmessenger]

The church has authority from Christ and approves images

But not worship of them but God alone!

yes, but my contention with this line of thought: I repeat this at risk of sounding redundant, through the very act of allowing the graven images to be used the catholic church is guilty of the sin of anyone that does indeed worship the items seeing as how the general rule is to abstain from graven images as mentioned in the 10 commandments.

 

[donadams]

Don,
What's your point?

I see the invitation to salvation, but I do not see an invitation to the RCC.

Quit twisting scripture.

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Christ and His church are one!
((Inseparable authority & unity))
Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:4-5 eph 5:24 Jn 20:21-23

One shepherd and one fold! Jn 10:16

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

The 30,000 sects (the tradition of men) having no authority at all! And holding and teaching contrary and new doctrines that oppose the Christian faith that was revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 acts 16:17


The church was founded and existed and exercised authority in teaching, governance, and sanctifying souls before the New Testament was written!

The church does not require the scriptures to know the truth!

The church wrote the scripture!

The church was taught by Christ in person for three years!

And commanded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

For 30 plus years before the apostles wrote scripture
By the inspiration of the Holy Ghost they taught and preached and settle matters of doctrine!

Acts 8:12 & 25 & 35
Acts 13:5
1 pet 1:25

 

[secretmessenger]

That’s not what scripture says

(((Not scripture alone)))

Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

OK so this is where it starts to seem like you are uninterested in searching out the truth and instead only parroting talking points, in this scripture who is the person mentioned following the apostles saying this? It is a demon possessed individual whom they rebuke and cast the devil out of the individual, having grown weary of the person following them. This is not a good argument for your position at all for obvious reasons.

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

OK so if we are addressing the apostles directly, what is the requirement to be an apostle? One must have known Jesus in the flesh as far as I know. the only exception may be saul / paul. The early apostles had a special authority because they had been trained by Jesus directly in the beginning, and it was their writings along with the prophets that became scripture, which is the very measuring stick by which we measure all other teachings. If a teaching contradicts this scripture then we can know that the teaching is false because we have an infallable measuring stick, the word of God, written for all to study.

1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Scripture and the person of an apostle have same effect same authority

1. 1 John 1:4
   And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
2. 2 John 1:12
   Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

*****

again see the above point, it is redundant to go over it again.

We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

correct, apostles being the ones Jesus Himself taught and proved with signs and miracles, no other person since the time of the apostles have been proved in this manner nor can their words ever equal the authority of the ones God has proven in the books of scripture, and IF a person does demonstrate real tangible provable miracles, this is where the warning Jesus gave us comes into play, we must measure all words of such an individual against the written word and if we should find them in contrast or contradiction then the written word of God superceeds and has authority above all. Let every man be found a liar and God only true.

(Not scripture alone)
Sacred Scripture according to the churches cannon and interpretation? Yes!
Scripture alone? No!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things by, by whom also he made the worlds;

Who in this verse is the "us?" the apostles. again, a redundant point to explain further.

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!

Not in the least, be very weary of calling a doctrine of the devil. I would much rather err on the edge of caution and say that any one who presumes to superceed scripture or have the same authority of scripture without the exact power of the apostles speaks a word not of God, and furthur if such a person had that same power and contradicted the written word then such a person is not of God. I dont have a problem with refining our understanding of scripture so long as it does not add to, take from, or contradict the written word in proper context.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

indeed.

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

of course.

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

This is our point of contention, the authority of God rests upon the specific people used to build the foundation of the church (the redeemed) and to no one else exept as God Himself allows. How has God proved a prophet in times past and in the church age? God does not change so if one is to rise in our lifetime that has the stamp of God upon him or her then that person would be able to perform all the miracles that come with that specific and special office, with the word of truth on their lips and not contradicting the scripture which God gave us to measure all things by.

One shepherd and one fold! Jn 10:16

The truth of the Christian faith and the church are of divine origin and cannot be reformed!

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17 1 Jn 4:6

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the canon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

again most of this is highly redundand with the above points and I hope I shed enough light on them for you to understand my points.

The Christian faith is revealed by Christ!

of course?

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

exactly, the apostles as defined above and no one else since them.

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the canon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

There is, the Holy Spirit. And He will not in any way aprove of anything that exalts itself to be higher than the very word of God. God values His word and His name above all things, the church included as God will share His glory with no man, for even the apostles said there is none richeous, no not one.

 

[donadams]

yes, but my contention with this line of thought: I repeat this at risk of sounding redundant, through the very act of allowing the graven images to be used the catholic church is guilty of the sin of anyone that does indeed worship the items seeing as how the general rule is to abstain from graven images as mentioned in the 10 commandments.

She you agree images are not forbidden only worshiping them is forbidden?

 

[KV-44-v1]

Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

so wait, if a true Christian says "eat cooked lamb meat to fend off demons", they have as much authority as the Bible on that??

 

[KV-44-v1]

It is a demon possessed individual whom they rebuke and cast the devil out of the individual, having grown weary of the person following them.

yes, the RCC in general trusts strange teachings and demo* doctrines.
but some Catholics i think may avoid Some bad teachings.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6
yes.
a mother church is NOT the above.

 

[KV-44-v1]

donadams


Belief survey:
Is anything and everything that contradicts the Bible false?
YES or NO?

your answer might reveal much.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Christ replaces David as king! Lk 1:32-33

When was David king over all Born Again Christians?

Mary mother of all those living in the new creation of Jesus Christ replaces eve as the mother of the living!

I doubt anybody has ever observed Mary giving birth to new people. She been dead a long time bro.

The new covenant church is the new Israel! Matt 21:43

Who is hamas attacking?

replaces the Star of David as the symbol of salvation!

Since when was David Star ever a symbol of salvation?

Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new covenant

No; God does not change. He made a WHOLE NEW one.
click link:
Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the ...
Matthew debunks you Assertion!!

sacraments

RCC doctrine.

The church has authority from Christ and approves images

why do RCC's insist on using statues of dead ppl... imho that is unsettling.

which church... Born Again Christians... or RCC....
wow hard choice! /s

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Born Again, NOT RCC.

Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”!

yeah thats why Born Again Christians will always have the higher ground and the house built on ROCK.
not evolving rcc teachings.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Your interpretation missed the mark.

Yes, the rcc missed the mark from inception.

The problem with your interpretation of scripture is your pre-conceived notions.

Yes, his worldview colors his replies and he can't get of of the RCC mousetrap. (rat-catching cheese!! RCC!!)

You read scripture with bias.

Yes, he does, this leads to many question begging and equivocations and most of all, non sequiturs.

Scripture says what you want it to say and you are unwilling to consider that your pre-conceived notions are incorrect.

I don't think you even ponder the scripture that others quoted because you are so entrenched in your own belief.

spot on

You only post verse addresses instead of the verse itself and most of your verses don't pass the test.

another note he uses a catholic version. douay rheims.
biased from the outset.

Instead of copy and paste, try using the spirit to guide you.

As much as you would like, there isn't a verse in the whole Bible that proves your claim that the RCC is the one true body of christ.

booyah! i doubt he even tried to prove that it was.

Just because you claim Peter as your first pope, doesn't mean it's truth.

Anyone can claim him as theirs.

The apostles of christ followed all the laws of moses before and after christ death.

They observed food laws,
Feast days, the Sabbath.

The RCC follows none of those teachings. It is not the same church. It's evident through scripture.

RCC is a horse of a different color.

You should spend more time reading post and not be so jumpy to just reply as fast and as much as you can.

Copy and pasting shouldn't be your go to response.

Goebbels.
“Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”, is a law of propaganda often attributed to the N==i Joseph Goebbels.

oh hey, the RCC allowed the N==i's to come to power, who knew?
proof RCC is not the Apostolic Church as Dona describes the A. Church.

 

[secretmessenger]

Ew. K

She you agree images are not forbidden only worshiping them is forbidden?

Not at all, How did you come to that conclusion by reading my replies?

The Bible specifically states that we should not make graven images, nor bow down to them etc. There're a handful of times God specifically allowed it but again this is the exception and not the rule. As a rule one is never to bow down to graven images. The angels on the ark of the covenant is an exception and not even one that the masses see regularly as it was hid in the holy of holies. The brass serpent I haven't done much study into but it seems to me to be an allusion to the work of Christ.

 

[secretmessenger]

She you agree images are not forbidden only worshiping them is forbidden?

For more clarification, they are forbidden because we are prone to worship them. If you put or allow graven images to be used generally it is only inevitable that some will worship the image, and their guilt is on the person or body that allows that practice as well as on the individual who does so.

 

[KV-44-v1]

The brass serpent I haven't done much study into but it seems to me to be an allusion to the work of Christ.

A couple of additional lessons are taught in the Bible regarding this bronze serpent. The people did get healed when they looked at the serpent, and the image was kept for many years. Many years later, when the Israelites were in the Promised Land, the serpent became an object of worship (2 Kings 18:4). This shows how easy it is for us to take the things of God and twist them into idolatry. We must never worship the tools or the people God chooses to use, but always bring the honor and glory to God alone.


See? RCC people typically fall prey to idolatry!
This would not be if the rcc was Jesus' original church!

 

[KV-44-v1]

For more clarification, they are forbidden because we are prone to worship them. If you put or allow graven images to be used generally it is only inevitable that some will worship the image, and their guilt is on the person or body that allows that practice as well as on the individual who does so.

yes!!
if we know what is right but refuse to do it, sin!
James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the right thing to do, yet fails to ...
I, personally, Never made a graven image , never will!
James 4:17 is a STRONG BULWARK! against rcc dogmas!

 

[KV-44-v1]

the exception and not the rule.

the exception proves there is a rule

 

[secretmessenger]

the exception proves there is a rule

Well to be fair I think the 10 commandments proves the rule no?