Bible Study Scripture required?

[secretmessenger]

A couple of additional lessons are taught in the Bible regarding this bronze serpent. The people did get healed when they looked at the serpent, and the image was kept for many years. Many years later, when the Israelites were in the Promised Land, the serpent became an object of worship (2 Kings 18:4). This shows how easy it is for us to take the things of God and twist them into idolatry. We must never worship the tools or the people God chooses to use, but always bring the honor and glory to God alone.


See? RCC people typically fall prey to idolatry!
This would not be if the rcc was Jesus' original church!

To be fair, the church is the body of believers, not any particular religious institution. The catholic church started strong but drifted as all men are prone to do, as all churches are prone to do, enough that martin luther posted his thesis on the revisions nessesary for the church to be fully in the word again. I believe none of us has is 100% right yet, this is evident by all the bickering and backbiting that happens across the denominations and in our churches.

 

[donadams]

OK so this is where it starts to seem like you are uninterested in searching out the truth and instead only parroting talking points, in this scripture who is the person mentioned following the apostles saying this? It is a demon possessed individual whom they rebuke and cast the devil out of the individual, having grown weary of the person following them. This is not a good argument for your position at all for obvious reasons.

OK so if we are addressing the apostles directly, what is the requirement to be an apostle? One must have known Jesus in the flesh as far as I know. the only exception may be saul / paul. The early apostles had a special authority because they had been trained by Jesus directly in the beginning, and it was their writings along with the prophets that became scripture, which is the very measuring stick by which we measure all other teachings. If a teaching contradicts this scripture then we can know that the teaching is false because we have an infallable measuring stick, the word of God, written for all to study.

again see the above point, it is redundant to go over it again.

correct, apostles being the ones Jesus Himself taught and proved with signs and miracles, no other person since the time of the apostles have been proved in this manner nor can their words ever equal the authority of the ones God has proven in the books of scripture, and IF a person does demonstrate real tangible provable miracles, this is where the warning Jesus gave us comes into play, we must measure all words of such an individual against the written word and if we should find them in contrast or contradiction then the written word of God superceeds and has authority above all. Let every man be found a liar and God only true.

Who in this verse is the "us?" the apostles. again, a redundant point to explain further.

Not in the least, be very weary of calling a doctrine of the devil. I would much rather err on the edge of caution and say that any one who presumes to superceed scripture or have the same authority of scripture without the exact power of the apostles speaks a word not of God, and furthur if such a person had that same power and contradicted the written word then such a person is not of God. I dont have a problem with refining our understanding of scripture so long as it does not add to, take from, or contradict the written word in proper context.

indeed.

of course.

This is our point of contention, the authority of God rests upon the specific people used to build the foundation of the church (the redeemed) and to no one else exept as God Himself allows. How has God proved a prophet in times past and in the church age? God does not change so if one is to rise in our lifetime that has the stamp of God upon him or her then that person would be able to perform all the miracles that come with that specific and special office, with the word of truth on their lips and not contradicting the scripture which God gave us to measure all things by.

again most of this is highly redundand with the above points and I hope I shed enough light on them for you to understand my points.

of course?

exactly, the apostles as defined above and no one else since them.

There is, the Holy Spirit. And He will not in any way aprove of anything that exalts itself to be higher than the very word of God. God values His word and His name above all things, the church included as God will share His glory with no man, for even the apostles said there is none richeous, no not one.

Acts 16:17
So that makes it not true?
That makes it not scripture? No the inspired word of God?
And we can dismiss it out of hand?

As I said before what good is your doctrine of scripture alone if you refuse to believe scripture?

Thks

 

[donadams]

OK so this is where it starts to seem like you are uninterested in searching out the truth and instead only parroting talking points, in this scripture who is the person mentioned following the apostles saying this? It is a demon possessed individual whom they rebuke and cast the devil out of the individual, having grown weary of the person following them. This is not a good argument for your position at all for obvious reasons.

OK so if we are addressing the apostles directly, what is the requirement to be an apostle? One must have known Jesus in the flesh as far as I know. the only exception may be saul / paul. The early apostles had a special authority because they had been trained by Jesus directly in the beginning, and it was their writings along with the prophets that became scripture, which is the very measuring stick by which we measure all other teachings. If a teaching contradicts this scripture then we can know that the teaching is false because we have an infallable measuring stick, the word of God, written for all to study.

again see the above point, it is redundant to go over it again.

correct, apostles being the ones Jesus Himself taught and proved with signs and miracles, no other person since the time of the apostles have been proved in this manner nor can their words ever equal the authority of the ones God has proven in the books of scripture, and IF a person does demonstrate real tangible provable miracles, this is where the warning Jesus gave us comes into play, we must measure all words of such an individual against the written word and if we should find them in contrast or contradiction then the written word of God superceeds and has authority above all. Let every man be found a liar and God only true.

Who in this verse is the "us?" the apostles. again, a redundant point to explain further.

Not in the least, be very weary of calling a doctrine of the devil. I would much rather err on the edge of caution and say that any one who presumes to superceed scripture or have the same authority of scripture without the exact power of the apostles speaks a word not of God, and furthur if such a person had that same power and contradicted the written word then such a person is not of God. I dont have a problem with refining our understanding of scripture so long as it does not add to, take from, or contradict the written word in proper context.

indeed.

of course.

This is our point of contention, the authority of God rests upon the specific people used to build the foundation of the church (the redeemed) and to no one else exept as God Himself allows. How has God proved a prophet in times past and in the church age? God does not change so if one is to rise in our lifetime that has the stamp of God upon him or her then that person would be able to perform all the miracles that come with that specific and special office, with the word of truth on their lips and not contradicting the scripture which God gave us to measure all things by.

again most of this is highly redundand with the above points and I hope I shed enough light on them for you to understand my points.

of course?

exactly, the apostles as defined above and no one else since them.

There is, the Holy Spirit. And He will not in any way aprove of anything that exalts itself to be higher than the very word of God. God values His word and His name above all things, the church included as God will share His glory with no man, for even the apostles said there is none richeous, no not one.

No all apostles have the same authority

If something in the requirements is not possible then it is no longer required but Matt 28:19-29 Jn 20:21-23 acts 1:8 imply and require the apostles to continue until christ returns!

Nowhere does it say apostles are temporary

Thks

The same authority which the apostles have was taken from (Matt 21:43) the successors of Moses (Matt 23)

They are and have successors
The apostles are and have successors
Christ made apostles and sent them out so the apostles have the same authority

Apostolic succession acts 1:15-26

 

[KV-44-v1]

Acts 16:17

That's referring to a woman talking paul and silas . I see no reason to think it helps the rcc's claim of being the true church stand on its own 2 feet.

 

[KV-44-v1]

it

it what?
you covered a lot of his post so idk what the 'it' is.

 

[secretmessenger]

Acts 16:17
So that makes it not true?
That makes it not scripture? No the inspired word of God?
And we can dismiss it out of hand?

As I said before what good is your doctrine of scripture alone if you refuse to believe scripture?

Thks

You'll have to elaborate a bit on this, I don't see your follow on point as being relevant to anything I've said.

I believe the scripture, what I don't believe is scraps of verses taken out of their appropriate context.

 

[donadams]

OK so this is where it starts to seem like you are uninterested in searching out the truth and instead only parroting talking points, in this scripture who is the person mentioned following the apostles saying this? It is a demon possessed individual whom they rebuke and cast the devil out of the individual, having grown weary of the person following them. This is not a good argument for your position at all for obvious reasons.

OK so if we are addressing the apostles directly, what is the requirement to be an apostle? One must have known Jesus in the flesh as far as I know. the only exception may be saul / paul. The early apostles had a special authority because they had been trained by Jesus directly in the beginning, and it was their writings along with the prophets that became scripture, which is the very measuring stick by which we measure all other teachings. If a teaching contradicts this scripture then we can know that the teaching is false because we have an infallable measuring stick, the word of God, written for all to study.

again see the above point, it is redundant to go over it again.

correct, apostles being the ones Jesus Himself taught and proved with signs and miracles, no other person since the time of the apostles have been proved in this manner nor can their words ever equal the authority of the ones God has proven in the books of scripture, and IF a person does demonstrate real tangible provable miracles, this is where the warning Jesus gave us comes into play, we must measure all words of such an individual against the written word and if we should find them in contrast or contradiction then the written word of God superceeds and has authority above all. Let every man be found a liar and God only true.

Who in this verse is the "us?" the apostles. again, a redundant point to explain further.

Not in the least, be very weary of calling a doctrine of the devil. I would much rather err on the edge of caution and say that any one who presumes to superceed scripture or have the same authority of scripture without the exact power of the apostles speaks a word not of God, and furthur if such a person had that same power and contradicted the written word then such a person is not of God. I dont have a problem with refining our understanding of scripture so long as it does not add to, take from, or contradict the written word in proper context.

indeed.

of course.

This is our point of contention, the authority of God rests upon the specific people used to build the foundation of the church (the redeemed) and to no one else exept as God Himself allows. How has God proved a prophet in times past and in the church age? God does not change so if one is to rise in our lifetime that has the stamp of God upon him or her then that person would be able to perform all the miracles that come with that specific and special office, with the word of truth on their lips and not contradicting the scripture which God gave us to measure all things by.

again most of this is highly redundand with the above points and I hope I shed enough light on them for you to understand my points.

of course?

exactly, the apostles as defined above and no one else since them.

There is, the Holy Spirit. And He will not in any way aprove of anything that exalts itself to be higher than the very word of God. God values His word and His name above all things, the church included as God will share His glory with no man, for even the apostles said there is none richeous, no not one.

The source of truth and the rule of Christian faith is Jesus Christ!

We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)
Sacred Scripture according to the churches cannon and interpretation? Yes!
Scripture alone? No!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things by, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

One shepherd and one fold! Jn 10:16

The truth of the Christian faith and the church are of divine origin and cannot be reformed!

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17 1 Jn 4:6

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the canon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

The Christian faith is revealed by Christ!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the canon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Christ and His church are one!
((Inseparable unity))
Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

 

[KV-44-v1]

If something in the requirements is not possible then it is no longer required

verse? thx

 

[KV-44-v1]

The same authority which the apostles have was taken from (Matt 21:43) the successors of Moses (Matt 23)

They are and have successors
The apostles are and have successors
Christ made apostles and sent them out so the apostles have the same authority

Apostolic succession acts 1:15-26

You can talk about the Apostles all day, but that does not support RCC dogma one bit.
If you are correct, Apostles are simply BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS. The specific Biblical Apostles were, (idk about Judas, or even if he was one, i just know he was a Disciple until he betrayed.).

 

[donadams]

OK so this is where it starts to seem like you are uninterested in searching out the truth and instead only parroting talking points, in this scripture who is the person mentioned following the apostles saying this? It is a demon possessed individual whom they rebuke and cast the devil out of the individual, having grown weary of the person following them. This is not a good argument for your position at all for obvious reasons.

OK so if we are addressing the apostles directly, what is the requirement to be an apostle? One must have known Jesus in the flesh as far as I know. the only exception may be saul / paul. The early apostles had a special authority because they had been trained by Jesus directly in the beginning, and it was their writings along with the prophets that became scripture, which is the very measuring stick by which we measure all other teachings. If a teaching contradicts this scripture then we can know that the teaching is false because we have an infallable measuring stick, the word of God, written for all to study.

again see the above point, it is redundant to go over it again.

correct, apostles being the ones Jesus Himself taught and proved with signs and miracles, no other person since the time of the apostles have been proved in this manner nor can their words ever equal the authority of the ones God has proven in the books of scripture, and IF a person does demonstrate real tangible provable miracles, this is where the warning Jesus gave us comes into play, we must measure all words of such an individual against the written word and if we should find them in contrast or contradiction then the written word of God superceeds and has authority above all. Let every man be found a liar and God only true.

Who in this verse is the "us?" the apostles. again, a redundant point to explain further.

Not in the least, be very weary of calling a doctrine of the devil. I would much rather err on the edge of caution and say that any one who presumes to superceed scripture or have the same authority of scripture without the exact power of the apostles speaks a word not of God, and furthur if such a person had that same power and contradicted the written word then such a person is not of God. I dont have a problem with refining our understanding of scripture so long as it does not add to, take from, or contradict the written word in proper context.

indeed.

of course.

This is our point of contention, the authority of God rests upon the specific people used to build the foundation of the church (the redeemed) and to no one else exept as God Himself allows. How has God proved a prophet in times past and in the church age? God does not change so if one is to rise in our lifetime that has the stamp of God upon him or her then that person would be able to perform all the miracles that come with that specific and special office, with the word of truth on their lips and not contradicting the scripture which God gave us to measure all things by.

again most of this is highly redundand with the above points and I hope I shed enough light on them for you to understand my points.

of course?

exactly, the apostles as defined above and no one else since them.

There is, the Holy Spirit. And He will not in any way aprove of anything that exalts itself to be higher than the very word of God. God values His word and His name above all things, the church included as God will share His glory with no man, for even the apostles said there is none richeous, no not one.

Did the apostles only have authority when they wrote scripture?

Or were their persons ordained with the office of apostle

Most of the New Testament was written much later and was first preached or taught orally / verbally

The apostles who wrote no scripture, did they have no authority?

Thks

 

[KV-44-v1]

“false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!

no evidence it is doctrine of demons.

 

[KV-44-v1]

The apostolic church is the pillar of truth!

So its the pillar of truth and not truth.
JESUS is The Word.
THE BIBLE is also The Word.
BUT - the CHURCH is the PILLAR. so its NOT the Word.
the Church simply exalts Jesus.

 

[KV-44-v1]

authority

Authority over what? youll have to define that, and specify what that authority is over.

 

[KV-44-v1]

mother

is this a metaphor?

 

[KV-44-v1]

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things by, by whom also he made the worlds;

so?
I do not think we have been stating that it was always Sola Scriptura.
Before the Biblical Books were penned, the concept Sola Scriptura was not around on the earth.
SS applies to THESE TIMES.

 

[KV-44-v1]

sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth

note the present tense 'is'.

 

[secretmessenger]

Did the apostles only have authority when they wrote scripture?

Or were their persons ordained with the office of apostle

Most of the New Testament was written much later and was first preached or taught orally / verbally

The apostles who wrote no scripture, did they have no authority?

Thks

I feel like you ate just fishing for concessions now, show me one person who bears the mark of a true apostle, that is the same power and authority in fulness such as the original apostles that built the foundation of the church had: Raising the dead, healing the sick, speaking in unknown tongues, not dying from poisons, and etc. A person such as this who preaches the word of God in truth will have the full authority required for his or her writings to be considered even close to the ballpark of the authority of the written scripture we have today.

 

[donadams]

so wait, if a true Christian says "eat cooked lamb meat to fend off demons", they have as much authority as the Bible on that??

We are in n union with Christ indwelt by His spirit

 

[donadams]

When was David king over all Born Again Christians?



I doubt anybody has ever observed Mary giving birth to new people. She been dead a long time bro.



Who is hamas attacking?




Since when was David Star ever a symbol of salvation?



No; God does not change. He made a WHOLE NEW one.
click link:
Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the ...
Matthew debunks you Assertion!!






RCC doctrine.





why do RCC's insist on using statues of dead ppl... imho that is unsettling.

which church... Born Again Christians... or RCC....
wow hard choice! /s


Born Again, NOT RCC.



yeah thats why Born Again Christians will always have the higher ground and the house built on ROCK.
not evolving rcc teachings.

David was king of Israel in the old covenant
Christ is king of the new Israel His church in the new covenant
Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new covenant
Heb 9:10

 

[donadams]

When was David king over all Born Again Christians?



I doubt anybody has ever observed Mary giving birth to new people. She been dead a long time bro.



Who is hamas attacking?




Since when was David Star ever a symbol of salvation?



No; God does not change. He made a WHOLE NEW one.
click link:
Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the ...
Matthew debunks you Assertion!!






RCC doctrine.





why do RCC's insist on using statues of dead ppl... imho that is unsettling.

which church... Born Again Christians... or RCC....
wow hard choice! /s


Born Again, NOT RCC.



yeah thats why Born Again Christians will always have the higher ground and the house built on ROCK.
not evolving rcc teachings.

Mary is the reigning and ruling queen in heaven
Rev 12:1

Fully alive in Christ Jn 11:25

And as we were all in Christ (seed) and he was in Mary and Mary gave birth to him she also gave birth to us

Jn 19:26 Jesus does not make her our mother here but declares her to be our mother!
Behold Thy mother!
Amen! Thanks be to God!