Bible Study Should Christian women be able to teach Christian men?

[andy pandy]

Please explain what is instructed in Timothy and Titus by giving us the verses and chapter.

1Timothy 3 v 1 -16
Titus 1 v 5-16

 

[andy pandy]

Do you use scripture every time you speak???? I made a point... and was speaking directly to someone... I do not think it is your PLACE to correct what and how I SHARE.

I am not correcting anyone. I am sharing what I know which is no different to what you do. If what I know conflicts with what you know that is not my problem. You or I cannot get involved in a public forum and expect to not be offended or challenged in what you or I say.

I welcome any challenge as it is one of the ways I can enlarge my body of knowledge. It gives me the chance to see if what I say is right or wrong. I don't enlarge my body of knowledge by just talking to those who agree with me all the time.

 

[andy pandy]

kiwidan gave a point that is relevant to the thread. It is with you that you did not understand it.

This superiority attitude of yours over others needs to stop or you will be banned from the thread. You are in violation of the ToS 1.1 and 1.3, but for now I will let it go. This is a warning to you.

This superior attitude is a figment of your imagination. Every day I want increase my knowledge and one of the ways to do that is to dialogue with people that have all sorts of ideas what the scripture means.

 

[andy pandy]

andy pandy ... I have read several of your posts... and I must say... You seem to have elevated yourself to a position of being the ONLY one whose thoughts are relevant. This is something I see a lot of within forums.. and it is very unbecoming... Just sayin.

And I am just sayin that I write according to what I know and have been taught by some of the finest teachers in Christendom. As for elevating myself, that is a figment of your imagination. All I am doing is what you are doing and that is sayinjg what I know. The fact that it does not fall into line with what you claim is not my problem and visa versa.

 

[andy pandy]

You have every right to voice your heart and thoughts without scripture as they are your views and opinions and no one has the right to debate them if they disagree with you.

That is not what I was told which was I had to include scripture to prove what I was saying.

 

[andy pandy]

1 Corinthians 14 is all about prophecy, tongues and orderly worship in the church. Paul was giving a call to order in the church as the women were disorganized during the service with their endless chatter asking questions.

In this chapter Paul is giving instruction on how to give prophecy and use tongues in an orderly fashion. Paul was not telling women that they were not allowed to teach men, but to keep quite in the church with there disruptive chatter and questions that interrupted the service. They were told to hold their questions until they got home and ask their husband. They were never told they could not teach men.

If God did not approve of women leading or instructing mem then why was one third of Israel's first leadership team Female? God said to the prophet Micah "I sent Moses to lead you, also Aaron and Miriam, Micha 6:4.

Why was Deborah the chief prophet and judge over Israel for four decades? Why was Huldah the most accurate prophet in Israel and why did God use her to instruct the king? Why did Anna prophesy at the Temple and Priscilla instruct Apollos? Why was Chloe a house church leader, Phoebe a deacon and and Junia (yes a woman) an apostle.

You haven't told me what part of my post you have deleted so I have no idea what you are talkikng about.

I never said that Paul was telling women not to teach men in this passage.

As the Old Testament is not a manual for the New Testament church I tend not to try and make it say what I want it to say regarding leadership in the church.

None of the women you are referring to in the New Terstament are referred to as Elders.

Junia may have been a woman. There are just as many expositors who say he was a man. That being the case, you are on shaky ground if you want to base female eldership on that example.

Apart from the fact that you have to explain away Paul's instructions to Timothy and Titus if you claim women were elders.

 

[andy pandy]

Think it was self explanatory that a woman was equal to the man as God created them to be.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Where does it say in scripture that men and women are equal? Gal: 3 v 28 has to do with the new creation, not leadership in the church.

 

[andy pandy]

They did not need to be what?
Incomplete sentence, please be more precise with what you want to say.

Yes, you are quite right. Someone said we did not need to be omniscient.

 

[andy pandy]

Ok so the thread title is should christian women be allowed to teach christian men.

Jesus told a woman to go tell his brethren he was ascending to God. So she went and told them she seen the Lord as the Lord told her to go tell them.

She was instructed with the knowledge she had through her experience to tell the diciples. So she teach them something. She preach the lord was accending to God as Jesus told her. She teach them something they didnt know.

None of this was in the context of the church. It all took place before the church was born therefore it is not relevant. As it has been said by those who know what they are talkikng about, a text without a context is a pretext.

 

[for_his_glory]

1Timothy 3 v 1 -16
Titus 1 v 5-16

Where is your explanation of these verses I was asking of you to explain.

 

[for_his_glory]

Where does it say in scripture that men and women are equal? Gal: 3 v 28 has to do with the new creation, not leadership in the church.

Let's take this back to the very beginning of God creating male and female as much of the Bible is written as being masculine language.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Notice in vs. 27 in the use of the word "him" as referring to both male and female. We also read this again in Genesis 5:1-2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. God created Adam, a name that refers to mankind or humanity in Hebrew, in two genders as male and female. The singular masculine is used to refer collectively to both male and female genders.

Throughout the Bible we see such verses like 1 Timothy 3:1-2 as being masculine language as we read "husband of one wife". This phrase is gender inclusive rather than gender exclusive because the masculine language is often used to incorporate women in scripture just like Genesis 1:26-27 and 5:1-2. It's the same with using the word "brethren" as it refers to both male and female from the first page of scripture to the last page of scripture.

There is an even stronger connection between the masculine singular and gender inclusivity in 1Timothy 3:1 -16 and Titus 1:5-16. Regarding the office of Pastor means that women are not prohibited from serving as Pastor if God calls them. The Holy Spirit gives the gifts He pleases as we read in 1 Corinthians 12 meaning that no woman is barred from any Spiritual gift or office because of her gender. Nowhere in scripture does it say women can not be Pastors or Evangelist.

 

[for_his_glory]

One of the mistakes that people make today is they take a verse of scripture and say "there you are, that proves what I am saying."

Are you not doing the same thing with 1Timothy 3:1 -16 and Titus 1:5-16 without understanding the full context beginning in Genesis! Members here are giving their views and opinions as they express their understandings, but yet you seem to dishonor their views and opinions. It's good to ask questions, but it is also good to respect where others are coming from in their views and opinions.

Biblical Growth and Study forum is not a place to debate and argue with each other. It's a forum to build up and encourage one another in the word of God even if we disagree with each other. Please keep this in mind in how you reply to other members.

 

[Doug Brents]

Ok, well lets go through what i said and prove me wrong by scripture.

I said the first witness and founder of christianity was a woman. The ressurection of Christ is the foundation of Christianity what is Christianity without the resurection
and the first witness of the risen Christ was a woman. Check.

The first person to talk with and given instruction by Jesus after his ressurection was to a woman. Check..

Without the ressuraction of Christ Chrisianity is nothing as its based on his resurrection and they chose a woman witness first. Check.

Jesus does not favour he gave himself for all and loves men and women equal. Check.

God humbles the proud. Check.

Many women were witness to the end at his crucifiction and no sign of male diciples there, only someone known as the diciple he loved. Check.

Gods ways are not always our ways. Check.

Maybe im not perfect but i dont think what i said is completly crooked. Check.

The founder of Christianity was not a woman! It was Christ. Yes, a woman was the first to view the empty tomb, but that fact is meaningless.

There were certainly some of Jesus’ male disciples present at the crucifixion. The man about whom He said to His mom, “Behold, your son.” And it is clear that “the discipline whom Jesus loved” was John’s way of referring to himself. So John was most certainly there. Also, Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias were certainly present, because to be considered as a replacement for Judas among the 12, the men had to be witness to Jesus’ baptism and ascension and everything in between (which would include the crucifixion).

 

[for_his_glory]

So passing on a message is teaching people? I hope you don't mind me saying (I said that because I know some people here would) You do draw a long bow with your comments.

Do we not all pass on the message of the good news of God's mercy and grace? Think about that for a moment as no one needs a title to witness the risen Christ to anyone.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Let's take this back to the very beginning of God creating male and female as much of the Bible is written as being masculine language.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Notice in vs. 27 in the use of the word "him" as referring to both male and female. We also read this again in Genesis 5:1-2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. God created Adam, a name that refers to mankind or humanity in Hebrew, in two genders as male and female. The singular masculine is used to refer collectively to both male and female genders.

Throughout the Bible we see such verses like 1 Timothy 3:1-2 as being masculine language as we read "husband of one wife". This phrase is gender inclusive rather than gender exclusive because the masculine language is often used to incorporate women in scripture just like Genesis 1:26-27 and 5:1-2. It's the same with using the word "brethren" as it refers to both male and female from the first page of scripture to the last page of scripture.

There is an even stronger connection between the masculine singular and gender inclusivity in 1Timothy 3:1 -16 and Titus 1:5-16. Regarding the office of Pastor means that women are not prohibited from serving as Pastor if God calls them. The Holy Spirit gives the gifts He pleases as we read in 1 Corinthians 12 meaning that no woman is barred from any Spiritual gift or office because of her gender. Nowhere in scripture does it say women can not be Pastors or Evangelist.

You seem to be promoting the term man (as a woman) of one wife (being the man) as scriptually okay.
That's why I never listen to you.
You are all mixed up thinking women should lead men.

In today's world, people are interpreting the Bible to agree with the way's of the world.
In so doing, the Bible no longer reads the way it always has.
Because the world changes, therefore the Bible changes.
Women are very well pleased to tell men what to do and what to believe.
Now we have legalized abortion, lesbian pastors, and all hell is breaking loose in our churches.

And I don't blame the women.
They are the weaker sex and are unable to correct what is wrong.
Men are the problem.
They are lazy and fail to be spiritual leaders as God has commanded them.
This will not change because we are very close to the Day of our Lord.

All a man can do is work at being right with God and teaching his wife to do the same.

 

[for_his_glory]

This superior attitude is a figment of your imagination. Every day I want increase my knowledge and one of the ways to do that is to dialogue with people that have all sorts of ideas what the scripture means.

Then why not try to respect what others give in their views and understanding instead of telling them what they post is not relevant to the topic. Why does it offend you in what others bring to the topic as how can one's views and opinions in how they understand be offensive to anyone.

 

[for_his_glory]

That is not what I was told which was I had to include scripture to prove what I was saying.

I was speaking to Adoration not you or anyone else, telling him "You have every right to voice your heart and thoughts without scripture as they are your views and opinions and no one has the right to debate them if they disagree with you."

I was responding to what Adoration wrote in his post #50 about not using scripture when he shares his heart or thoughts. How does one use scripture in this instance.

 

[for_his_glory]

You haven't told me what part of my post you have deleted so I have no idea what you are talkikng about.

Did you not get my response message I sent you why it was deleted?

 

[Adoration]

Members here are giving their views and opinions as they express their understandings, but yet you seem to dishonor their views and opinions. It's good to ask questions, but it is also good to respect where others are coming from in their views and opinions.

This comment coming from ADMIN absolutely BLESSES me like I cannot express...
This is the AROMA that we need to live in... RESPECT for each other as brothers and sisters in Christ.
THANK you from the bottom of my heart for taking such GOOD care of this site... and ensuring that justice
for all to be heard is not only hoped for... but actually practiced.

I have had such a difficult time TRUSTING what people say.... and I am in a unique situation because I am a modern day hermit... LOL.... I mean that quite literally... It is by choice that I live this way... MY life is simple... and ever so peaceful. My relationship with CHRIST is Centre to everything I do. I am a work in progress... like everyone else.

It has been my biggest hope to find an on-line community where I can be MYSELF... speak openly and honestly... and meet some other fellow believers along the way.

I first joined a forum in Spring of last year... This will be my third in a year... and I have to say.... I FEEL like I am HOME...

This place for me is more than just a place to be heard.... I desire to LEARN a great many things...for that to occur... I need RESPECT.... I need to SEE that people are actually behaving in a manner that is worthy of being listened to and believed.

I am so IMPRESSED.... so deeply moved by this place. THANK YOU to all the staff... Many might not appreciate this but I SURE DO!!!

Most tenderly... In CHRIST.... ADDY

 

[Tessa]

This comment coming from ADMIN absolutely BLESSES me like I cannot express...
This is the AROMA that we need to live in... RESPECT for each other as brothers and sisters in Christ.
THANK you from the bottom of my heart for taking such GOOD care of this site... and ensuring that justice
for all to be heard is not only hoped for... but actually practiced.

I have had such a difficult time TRUSTING what people say.... and I am in a unique situation because I am a modern day hermit... LOL.... I mean that quite literally... It is by choice that I live this way... MY life is simple... and ever so peaceful. My relationship with CHRIST is Centre to everything I do. I am a work in progress... like everyone else.

It has been my biggest hope to find an on-line community where I can be MYSELF... speak openly and honestly... and meet some other fellow believers along the way.

I first joined a forum in Spring of last year... This will be my third in a year... and I have to say.... I FEEL like I am HOME...

This place for me is more than just a place to be heard.... I desire to LEARN a great many things...for that to occur... I need RESPECT.... I need to SEE that people are actually behaving in a manner that is worthy of being listened to and believed.

I am so IMPRESSED.... so deeply moved by this place. THANK YOU to all the staff... Many might not appreciate this but I SURE DO!!!

Most tenderly... In CHRIST.... ADDY

Adoration
This says an awful lot about you. All good.
So glad you are here.