Should Christians Have Guns?

[Pizzaguy]

This is not really the point. Anyone who wishes to argue that its acceptable for a Christian to have a gun in their house has to deal with the following issues:

1. Even if one accepts that it is morally acceptable for the Christian to kill in self-defence...

It is morally unacceptable to not defend the innocent - the innocent being your spouse and children. Since you obviously would refuse (according to your posts here) to defend your family, I find that you are an immoral person. Since you have labeled me with that - I guess we are even.

I say it again, you do not live in the real world.

 

[Drew]

An even bigger question should be,"is it morally acceptable for a christian to own and drive a car? Citizens who drive cars kill at least 1000 times more innocent people than do citizens who are registered gun owners.
Your argument is absurd, any human should be allowed to protect their family and being a christian does not exclude us from being human.

A car is not the same thing at all. Clearly cars are part of the necessary fabric of modern life. Guns are not. We arguably need cars to undertake the fundamental activities of life. Guns are not at all in the same category. Many countries in Europe are entirely devoid of guns in the hands of private citizens and life there is just fine. But, for what its worth, I think it would be no bad thing to try to get rid of the automobile and come up with a more environmentally responsible and safer alternative.

And please explain precisely how it is "being human" involves having a weapon capable of meting out violent death? I see nothing particulary "human" in that.

 

[Drew]

It is morally unacceptable to not defend the innocent - the innocent being your spouse and children. Since you obviously would refuse (according to your posts here) to defend your family, I find that you are an immoral person. Since you have labeled me with that - I guess we are even.

I say it again, you do not live in the real world.

You misrepresent me. I never said I would not defend my family. Please read my posts more carefully.

I suggest that you are simply not aware that yours is basically the only advanced western nation where people are clamouring to have guns. The rest of us live "in the real world" and we get by just fine without the mass shootings in the workplace, the blowing away of congresswomen, etc.

 

[Free]

The bible never says that if a man breaks into your house with a gun that God will supernaturally protect you...sorry but that is not a biblical teaching.

That is not what I said and not what my point is. I trust God to keep people out in the first place.

i posted i was very please DH did not have to kill any one the nite they kicked in ourdoor . reading Pizza i did not catch he killed anyone.

I never said anyone killed anyone. Guns are for one purpose. Having one in one's house, on their person, or in their vehicle (if that's even allowed anywhere), shows that one is willing to take another's life if they have to.

God has instilled a will to live Common sense to protect ones family and self. Do you wear a jacket to protect you against the cold, Maybe walking stick for dogs, Seat belts?

Firstly, those are hardly sufficient comparisons to being willing to take the life of another human. Secondly, please don't argue to "common sense," unless you can first show that it is biblically okay for "common sense" to, at least temporarily, override the Christian ideal, the gospel message, the message of the Kingdom, or however you want to word it.

Show me a scripture that tells me not to protect my family and self from the rapist, robber, killer or other bad guy.

Show me a scripture that does...
<dir> </dir>

 

[Sam21]

I want to be clear about something - I fully "understand" the appeal of having a gun to protect self and family. But, hard as it is to accept, the path of the cross can often mean placing oneself at risk for the sake of the kingdom. Besides, we should not pre-suppose that the best solution to the threat of the "home invader" is to arm ourselves. What about achieving economic equality in society to reduce the motivation for people to break into houses and steal? Or better ways of dealing with young offenders. In short, why not try applying some Kingdom of God principles before conceding to the "ways of the world". We are to be a people of light, showing a different way of being human. When we take up the gun, this sends a powerful message that there is not a new King after all (Jesus, of course) and that the world still runs on the same old power structures where goals, even "good" goals like preserving the lives of your family, are pursued with weapons of violence. This is a tough issue, but surely there has to be a better ways than arming ourselves.

Maybe you mean well, but your ideas are completely out of the bounds of reality. Why were all the disciples meeting behind locked doors? They were using a house for protection instead of just trusting God,right? We live in a natural world that for the most part God allows to continue and we are suppose to use wisdom while living in it. Why have protection(just trust God)? Why work(just trust God)? Why take a bath(just trust God). In this real world in which we live at times we need something to protect ourselves with, we can stand and watch our wives and children being murdered or we can have the wisdom to provide some means of protection .

 

[Deavonreye]

Drew, you may feel free to hold whatever beliefs you will about guns. This is America where criminals and gangs WILL get guns outside of legal channels. The same as "the war on drugs". Plenty still on the streets. Prohibition failed.

Let me be clear. If you have guns in the house, and children of any age, you should have them in a locked case that they do not have access to. I live by myself, and yet I STILL have my guns in a locked case. I doubt that I will ever use my weapons on anything that is living. However, many enjoy the sport of shooting. Many enjoy the freedom to hunt their own meat. Those in their right mind are not a danger to society. People need to refrain from listening to bleeding heart liberals on this gun issue because their knee jerk reactions completely disregard the ACTUAL issues that this country faces daily.

 

[reba]

I pray you and family are never in the place we were.... Shotgun, rape, murder, robbery, is what was going on were we lived Cops believed it was the same guys killed an man in his 70 and raped his wife. beat them up first.. The cops believe it was the same guys that invaded a good hand full of homes. Been years but i think they killed 4 - 5 folks...

Social changes take time the bad guys did not give the old man time... And really social changes to prevent crime? Abe licolin was from a broken home and very poor. Crime is a choice.

I am done here you choose to live in namby pamby land....

 

[Drew]

It is morally unacceptable to not defend the innocent -

I agree. But we should not assume that the best to do this is to arm the general population. There are a myriad of other possiblities that would reduce risk to the innocent besides the arming of the citizenry.

 

[reba]

<DIR>1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
</DIR>

 

[Drew]

I pray you and family are never in the place we were.... Shotgun, rape, murder, robbery, is what was going on were we lived Cops believed it was the same guys killed an man in his 70 and raped his wife. beat them up first.. The cops believe it was the same guys that invaded a good hand full of homes. Been years but i think they killed 4 - 5 folks...

Social changes take time the bad guys did not give the old man time... And really social changes to prevent crime? Abe licolin was from a broken home and very poor. Crime is a choice.

I am done here you choose to live in namby pamby land....

You are simply not dealing with facts that challenge your position - guns are not necessary to create a safe society. There are bad people in Denmark, Spain, Japan, Norway, etc. If I live in "namb pamby land" why is the rate of violent crime lower in those countries.

 

[Free]

I am done here you choose to live in namby pamby land....

This is completely unnecessary. 2

1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

Way out of context.

 

[Sam21]

I agree. But we should not assume that the best to do this is to arm the general population. There are a myriad of other possiblities that would reduce risk to the innocent besides the arming of the citizenry.

We are already armed, that was part of the American way and this country became the greatest country in the world. Now Nazi Germany was a country that banned guns from the citizens, the purpose of course was so that corrupt government could take complete control.

 

[Drew]

<DIR>1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

</DIR>

Please. This text is not about using a gun to kill house invaders, it is about taking responsibility to provide the material needs for one's family.

Besides, even if this text were about "protecting" you you are basically presuming that the best way to do this is to arm yourselves. Yet millions will go to bed in western Europe, without a gun under the pillow. And they will be safer than the armed American will be.

 

[Drew]

We are already armed, that was part of the American way and this country became the greatest country in the world.

Please tell me what criteria and associated evidence you have for this claim that the USA is the "greatest" country in the world. Standard of living? Infant mortality? Longevity? What?

Now Nazi Germany was a country that banned guns from the citizens, the purpose of course was so that corrupt government could take complete control.

Faulty argument again. Many European and Asian nations have existed in stable form for decades without an armed populace. The line of thinking that "an armed populace is necessary to prevent tyranny is a convenient myth. You are appealing to exceptions.

 

[Drew]

Drew, you may feel free to hold whatever beliefs you will about guns. This is America where criminals and gangs WILL get guns outside of legal channels.

The fact that other nations have taken guns out the hands of the general population with chaos breaking out show that low crime and gun control can go together. If other countries can do it, so can "the greatest country in the world".

Let me be clear. If you have guns in the house, and children of any age, you should have them in a locked case that they do not have access to.

If I have time tomorrow, I will cite some studies, published in the New England Journal of Medecine, that shows that having a gun in the house actually increases the risk of violence to your family.

 

[Free]

Faulty argument again. Many European and Asian nations have existed in stable form for decades without an armed populace. The line of thinking that "an armed populace is necessary to prevent tyranny is a convenient myth. You are appealing to exceptions.

I would also add that it doesn't matter how big your gun is, the government, tyrannical or otherwise, will always have a bigger one, so an armed populace is not the answer.

 

[Pizzaguy]

I am done here you choose to live in namby pamby land....

Reality can be hard to take ... some of us are not up to it, Reba.

 

[Pizzaguy]

<dir>1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
</dir>

I tried to say that, but left out chapter and verse.

 

[Free]

Reality can be hard to take ... some of us are not up to it, Reba.

All such comments will cease. 2 Address the arguments.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Show me a scripture that does...
<dir> </dir>

<dir>1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
</dir>

This is completely unnecessary. 2

Well, YOU asked for it!
(And it is NOT out of context. Providing for your family includes food, shelter, and safety from known dangers or threats. Well, in MY bible it does, anyway.)