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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Should Christians Have Guns?
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
Drew
Member
Should Christians have guns?
Definitely not - having a gun is a capitulation to worldly power structures where the threat of force is used to achieve ends. Gun ownership should be rejected by Christians who are serious about implementing the Kingdom of God, a kingdom where such tools of death and violence have no place.
Definitely not - having a gun is a capitulation to worldly power structures where the threat of force is used to achieve ends. Gun ownership should be rejected by Christians who are serious about implementing the Kingdom of God, a kingdom where such tools of death and violence have no place.
Drew
Member
No. Things are not this simple. The Biblical story is an evolving one and what was "OK" in the Old Testament cannot simply be uncritically accepted in our time. When Jesus initiated the Kingdom of God, he ushered in an order of being where guns are to "melted into plowshares". So what was true for David is not necessarily true for us.
Drew
Member
Well, I never said that - I said I was opposed to Christians owning guns.
And many many places around the world ban guns and people are at least as safe in those countries as they would be in the USA. So I think you are posing the wrong question. It is clearly possible to create a society that is safer than the US is without people having guns.
jasoncran
Member
really?
what of a knife?
i have been threatned as i lived in martial arts dojo and the store next to me was robbed.
i felt rather paranoid at rightly so i was a witness to them leaving the scene
so i slept with an arkansaw tooth pick.
yes i wouldnt be a hero, but if they threatened to take my life its them or me.
why do people assume that just because some want a gun that they will use it without realising that they may take alife.
hello, carry conceal requires a 4 hr class on where and when to shoot your weapon, proper safe handling of your weapon.
and where you cant carry on your person or in your car.
theses are:
schools
churches
govt buildings
bars
you must also shoot and hit a target, so they know that you can shoot your weapon.
Pizzaguy
Member
How do you defend against home invasion with no gun?
Guns are here, they are not going away. If the home invaders are armed, you WILL do what they tell you to, as will your family
If they break in here, their blood will be shed if I am home.
Drew
Member
This question becomes irrelevant if one can indeed create a safer society than the US with no guns in the hands of civilians. And many such societies exist. You presume that the only solution to a home invasion is a gun, and overlook the possibilty that there are other solutions,.
In your country, sadly it appears that they are "here to stay". But many other countries are largely gun-free and the populace are safer than they are in the US.
This question presumes all sorts of things that it should not. The data is clear - many other countries are safer than the US without guns.
And as other posters before you will know - some to the point of exasperation - I am prepared to present an array of evidential arguments as to why having a gun in the house makes you less safe not more safe.
Deavonreye
Member
Drew, there is no corolation to a country without guns and a "safe society to live in". There ARE, however, countries that require every home have a firearm . . . and it has very low rates of crime. The problem with the United States isn't that we have guns, . . . . but due to stupid people who want things that others have, ie. greed. They would still be as violent if the firearm had never been invented. . . . it's just that the butchery of the aftermath would be far more gruesome.
jasoncran
Member
in germany after the citizen is drafted into the army or other branch and has served three yrs.
he gets to keep his or her weapon for life!
and is also subject to recall in a time of war.
sound familiar
it should its in the second amemdment if you know the history of why that was in place.
who is that militia?
the citizen then with the gun that was called into service on a moments notice aka minutemen
back then there was no cops, no other law enforcement like we have to day.
sure there was some laws and some type of enforcement but nothing like today.
he gets to keep his or her weapon for life!
and is also subject to recall in a time of war.
sound familiar
it should its in the second amemdment if you know the history of why that was in place.
who is that militia?
the citizen then with the gun that was called into service on a moments notice aka minutemen
back then there was no cops, no other law enforcement like we have to day.
sure there was some laws and some type of enforcement but nothing like today.
Pizzaguy
Member
I think that those who read this thread, and read the exchange between you and I, by now have gleaned from the discussion what I intended for them to.
Your obfuscation is not really all that effective, but I guess it's all you have.
demonXecutor
Member
As for me, I don't own a gun, but I don't oppose other Christians who own guns. Who am I, as a Christian, to judge others in this matter, as if to say because they own a gun and I don't makes them less of a Christian? I choose to judge myself.
Here are some facts about gun control:
Rwanda-•Register guns, owners, ammunition •Owners must justify need •Concealable guns illegal •Confiscating powers = 800,000 civilians killed.
Ottoman Turkey-• Permits required •Government list of owners
•Ban on possession = 1.5 million civilians killed.
Guatemala-•Register guns & owners •Licensing with high fees •Prohibit carrying guns •Bans on guns, sharp tools •Confiscation powers = 150,000 civilians killed.
China, Nationalist-•Government permit system •Ban on private ownership = 10 million civilians killed.
There's more to this list, but I hope you get the point. Fact: There will never be a perfect man-made law or perfect man-made government until Christ Jesus returns. This is my political opinion.
Here are some facts about gun control:
Rwanda-•Register guns, owners, ammunition •Owners must justify need •Concealable guns illegal •Confiscating powers = 800,000 civilians killed.
Ottoman Turkey-• Permits required •Government list of owners
•Ban on possession = 1.5 million civilians killed.
Guatemala-•Register guns & owners •Licensing with high fees •Prohibit carrying guns •Bans on guns, sharp tools •Confiscation powers = 150,000 civilians killed.
China, Nationalist-•Government permit system •Ban on private ownership = 10 million civilians killed.
There's more to this list, but I hope you get the point. Fact: There will never be a perfect man-made law or perfect man-made government until Christ Jesus returns. This is my political opinion.
jasoncran
Member
this is from the bbc,and in fact i have several of those styles knives.in possesion but no firearm!
A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.
They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.
The research is published in the British Medical Journal.
The researchers said there was no reason for long pointed knives to be publicly available at all.
They consulted 10 top chefs from around the UK, and found such knives have little practical value in the kitchen.
None of the chefs felt such knives were essential, since the point of a short blade was just as useful when a sharp end was needed.
The researchers said a short pointed knife may cause a substantial superficial wound if used in an assault - but is unlikely to penetrate to inner organs.
Kitchen knives can inflict appalling wounds
In contrast, a pointed long blade pierces the body like "cutting into a ripe melon".
The use of knives is particularly worrying amongst adolescents, say the researchers, reporting that 24% of 16-year-olds have been shown to carry weapons, primarily knives.
The study found links between easy access to domestic knives and violent assault are long established.
French laws in the 17th century decreed that the tips of table and street knives be ground smooth.
A century later, forks and blunt-ended table knives were introduced in the UK in an effort to reduce injuries during arguments in public eating houses.
The researchers say legislation to ban the sale of long pointed knives would be a key step in the fight against violent crime.
"The Home Office is looking for ways to reduce knife crime.
"We suggest that banning the sale of long pointed knives is a sensible and practical measure that would have this effect."
Government response
Home Office spokesperson said there were already extensive restrictions in place to control the sale and possession of knives.
"The law already prohibits the possession of offensive weapons in a public place, and the possession of knives in public without good reason or lawful authority, with the exception of a folding pocket knife with a blade not exceeding three inches.
"Offensive weapons are defined as any weapon designed or adapted to cause injury, or intended by the person possessing them to do so.
"An individual has to demonstrate that he had good reason to possess a knife, for example for fishing, other sporting purposes or as part of his profession (e.g. a chef) in a public place.
"The manufacture, sale and importation of 17 bladed, pointed and other offensive weapons have been banned, in addition to flick knives and gravity knives."
A spokesperson for the Association of Chief Police Officers said: "ACPO supports any move to reduce the number of knife related incidents, however, it is important to consider the practicalities of enforcing such changes."
when will it end? we miss the point the tool doesnt kill the idiot behind it does
A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.
They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.
The research is published in the British Medical Journal.
The researchers said there was no reason for long pointed knives to be publicly available at all.
They consulted 10 top chefs from around the UK, and found such knives have little practical value in the kitchen.
None of the chefs felt such knives were essential, since the point of a short blade was just as useful when a sharp end was needed.
The researchers said a short pointed knife may cause a substantial superficial wound if used in an assault - but is unlikely to penetrate to inner organs.
Kitchen knives can inflict appalling wounds
In contrast, a pointed long blade pierces the body like "cutting into a ripe melon".
The use of knives is particularly worrying amongst adolescents, say the researchers, reporting that 24% of 16-year-olds have been shown to carry weapons, primarily knives.
The study found links between easy access to domestic knives and violent assault are long established.
French laws in the 17th century decreed that the tips of table and street knives be ground smooth.
A century later, forks and blunt-ended table knives were introduced in the UK in an effort to reduce injuries during arguments in public eating houses.
The researchers say legislation to ban the sale of long pointed knives would be a key step in the fight against violent crime.
"The Home Office is looking for ways to reduce knife crime.
"We suggest that banning the sale of long pointed knives is a sensible and practical measure that would have this effect."
Government response
Home Office spokesperson said there were already extensive restrictions in place to control the sale and possession of knives.
"The law already prohibits the possession of offensive weapons in a public place, and the possession of knives in public without good reason or lawful authority, with the exception of a folding pocket knife with a blade not exceeding three inches.
"Offensive weapons are defined as any weapon designed or adapted to cause injury, or intended by the person possessing them to do so.
"An individual has to demonstrate that he had good reason to possess a knife, for example for fishing, other sporting purposes or as part of his profession (e.g. a chef) in a public place.
"The manufacture, sale and importation of 17 bladed, pointed and other offensive weapons have been banned, in addition to flick knives and gravity knives."
A spokesperson for the Association of Chief Police Officers said: "ACPO supports any move to reduce the number of knife related incidents, however, it is important to consider the practicalities of enforcing such changes."
when will it end? we miss the point the tool doesnt kill the idiot behind it does
Drew
Member
How, and please be precise, am I obfuscating?
I dare you to challenge me on any of the assertions I have made.
Drew
Member
Are you prepared to support this statement with some hard data?
For my part, I am indeed prepared to provide hard data that demonstrates that many countries which greatly restrict gun ownership have less violent crime than the USA.
I suggest that embrace of gun culture by Christians is largely an American phenomena.
You are probably thinking of Switzerland. And I suggest that for every "Switzerland" you can produce, I can produce 5 to 10 nations which control guns and have less violent crime than the USA. Besides, I believe that in Switzerland, it is only members of military who can keep guns in their homes. That's an entirely different situation - members of the military are typically highly trained persons, not like the average American gun owner. Plus, I'll bet these are all rifles, not handguns. Again, that's an important difference.
I doubt it - the facts suggest that most countries which are otherwise "advanced" and control guns have less violent crime than the USA. The uSA stands basically alone among civilized nations in its embrace of gun freedom. That alone should raise red flags.
Drew
Member
Why do Christians, who are charged with responsibility for protecting and nurturing God's creation, so enthralled with the power of the gun to end life.
These pictures employ simple-minded rhetorical appeals and really do not have a place in a responsible discussion about the question of Christians owning guns.
Drew
Member
I suggest this line of thinking avoids the question.
I could equally say "who am I, as a Christian to judge those who rob banks? - I choose to judge myself".
Pizzaguy
Member