Should Christians Keep the Ten Commandments Today???

[glorydaz]

Glorydaz-

This is a simple question: should Christians today live by the ten commandments?

No, we have a higher law to follow. The law of Christ.

Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

 

[RND]

Glorydaz-

This is a simple question: should Christians today live by the ten commandments?

No, we have a higher law to follow. The law of Christ.

Does the "law of Christ" include the obeying the ten commandments?

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[glorydaz]

Glorydaz-

This is a simple question: should Christians today live by the ten commandments?

No, we have a higher law to follow. The law of Christ.

Does the "law of Christ" include the obeying the ten commandments?

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The unbelievers are still under the law...that would be the ten.

Believers, though, are held to a higher standard.
The ten are still in there, but they've been expanded.
If we were just held to the 10, we could still sin in our hearts, just not carry out the act.
The Lord wants us to cleanse our hearts from all unrighteousness...the secret sins man can't see.

 

[RND]

The unbelievers are still under the law...that would be the ten.

You mean that as long as we profess to believe in Jesus we are free to break the law glorydaz?

Believers, though, are held to a higher standard.
The ten are still in there, but they've been expanded.

So then if they are "still in there" as you say then they haven't gone anywhere, right?

If we were just held to the 10, we could still sin in our hearts, just not carry out the act.

No doubt, the Pharisees were a wonderful example of that. But just because the Pharisees misused the law doesn't mean we throw it out.

That would be the equivalent of removing all speed limit signs because everyone speeds. God didn't remove the seventh commandment just because He expanded it's meaning.

The Lord wants us to cleanse our hearts from all unrighteousness...the secret sins man can't see.

No doubt glorydaz but that doesn't remove the law...it heighens it....makes it even more honorable!

 

[RND]

double post

 

[glorydaz]

The unbelievers are still under the law...that would be the ten.

You mean that as long as we profess to believe in Jesus we are free to break the law glorydaz?
Uh....no. I didn't say anything like that.

Believers, though, are held to a higher standard.
The ten are still in there, but they've been expanded.

So then if they are "still in there" as you say then they haven't gone anywhere, right? Wrong...we've gone far beyond.
[quote:309jb11u]
If we were just held to the 10, we could still sin in our hearts, just not carry out the act.

No doubt, the Pharisees were a wonderful example of that. But just because the Pharisees misused the law doesn't mean we throw it out. It wasn't my decision...or yours. It waxed old.

That would be the equivalent of removing all speed limit signs because everyone speeds. God didn't remove the seventh commandment just because He expanded it's meaning. He put up new signs...he didn't leave the old ones around to confuse people.

The Lord wants us to cleanse our hearts from all unrighteousness...the secret sins man can't see.

No doubt glorydaz but that doesn't remove the law...it heighens it....makes it even more honorable![/quote:309jb11u]

Seems like that's the same thing the Galatians thought.
The law brought death, the New Covenant brings life.
It's a new and better Covenant...Christ fulfilled the Old...it had served it's purpose, which was to show men their sins and their inability to keep it. Now we have the Holy Spirit and the righteousness of Christ imputed to us. We can now obey without fear of condemnation...which is what the law brought.
Why do you question a covenant of grace, when the old could never save anyone?

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[RND]

Uh....no. I didn't say anything like that.

OK.

Wrong...we've gone far beyond.

I'm confused then. You said, "The ten are still in there, but they've been expanded." So when I ask if they're still in there they haven't gone anywhere you tell me I'm wrong. So are they still in there or have they gone away?

It wasn't my decision...or yours. It waxed old.

I thought the word said God's law was holy, just and perfect. How does something perfect wax old?

He put up new signs...he didn't leave the old ones around to confuse people.

Ah, I get it. So there are still road signs telling us not to speed or break the law then.

Seems like that's the same thing the Galatians thought.
The law brought death, the New Covenant brings life.

The new covenant that Jesus brings makes it possible to obey the law and not have to sacrifice sheep when we break it, right?

It's a new and better Covenant...Christ fulfilled the Old...it had served it's purpose, which was to show men their sins and their inability to keep it. Now we have the Holy Spirit and the righteousness of Christ imputed to us. We can now obey without fear of condemnation...which is what the law brought.

Sure, I follow that. So what happens when a Christian sins and breaks God's law? Does he have to sacrifice a sheep or can he trust that there is no more sacrifice for sins and he can go boldly to the throneroom of grace?

Why do you question a covenant of grace, when the old could never save anyone?

Because no one was ever saved by keeping the law of Moses, salvation has always been by grace. The idea that somehow the church is in the dispensation of grace would be foreign to the scriptures.

 

[glorydaz]

I'm confused then. You said, "The ten are still in there, but they've been expanded." So when I ask if they're still in there they haven't gone anywhere you tell me I'm wrong. So are they still in there or have they gone away?

I thought the word said God's law was holy, just and perfect. How does something perfect wax old?

Ah, I get it. So there are still road signs telling us not to speed or break the law then.

The new covenant that Jesus brings makes it possible to obey the law and not have to sacrifice sheep when we break it, right?

So what happens when a Christian sins and breaks God's law? Does he have to sacrifice a sheep or can he trust that there is no more sacrifice for sins and he can go boldly to the throneroom of grace?

Because no one was ever saved by keeping the law of Moses, salvation has always been by grace. The idea that somehow the church is in the dispensation of grace would be foreign to the scriptures.

I think maybe you're toying with me.
I believe you'll find your answers here.
If any aren't included...post me back. ;)
Personally, I like verse 14 the best.

1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

[Elijah674]

No toy here. But it seems that there is some on both sides that do not know the difference of God Eternal Law & Moses stuff!

Are you telling me that Paul is talking about Gods 10 Commandments being a curse??
If so, you best check out Gal. 2:11-13 to see what 'the subject' being addressed was about? 'of the circumcism'! Then 16-18 was still pointing to this same topic!

And if that is not clear, read verse 11 for where Paul called Peter down? The reference is seen in Acts 5:1-2 & has absolutely NOTHING to do with God Royal Law or ten commandments written in stone!

Notice the verse:
"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said,] Except ye 'be circumcised' after the MANNER OF MOSES, [YE CANNOT BE SAVED]." Can you even suggest that, that was found in the 10 Commandments of God???

But not only was this the Subject, but verse 5 also includes 'other's than just Peter' as well, and take notice that it C-L-E-A-R-L-Y
states in this 'inspired' verse.. COMMAND them to keep 'THE LAW OF Moses'!

"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them [AND] to command them to keep the [Law of Moses]."

It goes on to say that the apostles and the elders came together to consider this matter! What matter was that? READ IT AGAIN until you get it right! (no offence meant!) But you, my friends seem to be just as dense as they? You remind me of Peter's Vision of Acts 10, with the reams & reams of PhD stuff penned! And it seems that most of these come out with tainted understanding.

Now: What were the Laws of Moses? Paul stated that:

'But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are [found sinners], is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For [if I build the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor].'
[This verse] tells of the Universal Covenant 10 commandment law. For where 'NO LAW IS, THERE IS NO TRANSGRESSION. (Rom. 4:15) How could Paul say we could be 'found sinners' if there were [now], no law?

OK: Back in Deut. 31 were see Moses with a LAW contained in a book. Called the [Book of the Law!] We also see it placed in the side of the Ark of God! Not inside of the Ark of God, where His 10 Commandments Royal Universal Covenant was & IS LOCATED!!

It was the law of Moses that was nailed to the Cross! [ALL of the CEREMONIAL LAWS] that pointed to Christ's death on the Cross. These were all added because of sin. Gal. 3:19. What were these law?? God does not leave us ignorant if we will search as He commanded. (2 Tim. 3:16-*Matt. 4:4-Matt. 28:20)

Paul also includes Col. 2:9-20 & Eph. 2:12-15 with these Laws of 'ordinances' and 'holy day' and 'the new moons, and the Sabbath day's'! These 'holy days' are the Sabbath of Moses law. NEVER ARE THEY THE 4TH COMMANDMENT OF THE TEN!!

Notice Deut 30:10 for the [plural] of commandment's'! "If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep [his commandments] and His statues which are written [in THIS BOOK of the law, ..." (both the statues & these commandments are written in the BOOK OF THE LAW)

Again take note in Deut. 31:9 & verses 24-26. And note verse 26 closes with .. "Take [this book of the law] and [put it in the 'side of the Ark'] of the covenant of the Lord (notice these Words, & the Col. 2:14's Words of 'Against us') your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee".

And Paul's choice of Words.. Sabbath day's' plural, feast day's' plural, holy day's' plural? We even see in Acts 12:1-5 that Herod had James killed & Peter was locked up, and it was the Jews of old Israel that were keeping [this Feast Day] that you all keep today, you call it EASTER! (verse 3-4 ibid..) And you say that you are.. 'cursed with a curse'. Gal. 1:6-9!

You can understand Paul if you become the spiritual Jew of Rom. 2:28-38! Born Again.
Notice again the Law of Moses!! 2 Chron.. 8:13
"Even after a certain rate [every day], offering according to the [*commandments of Moses], on [the Sabbath's], and on [the new moon's'], and on the [solemn feast's'], (Easter, huh?) three times in the year, even the [feast of unleavened bread] and the [feast of week's'] and the feasts of [tabernacle's']."
These laws ALL pointed to the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin's of the world. When the Vail rent from top to bottom by an unseen hand, these laws of Moses were FINISHED, (Gal. 3:19) and the way was made into the Most Holy Place itself! Here is where the Ark of God was seen that had His 'TESTIMONY inside of His Ark! See Rev. 11:19.

NOW: Bottom line! Notice real good.
"And hallow my Sabbaths; and they shall be a SIGN between [Me and you], that ye [may know that I am the Lord your God]. Notwithstanding the children rebelled [against me: they walked not in my 'STATUES' ... WHEREFORE I GAVE THEM [ALSO] STATUES THAT WERE NOT GOOD, AND JUDGEMENTS WHEREBY THEY SHOULD *NOT LIVE.." Eze. 20:verse 20 & verse 25.
What did that say?? Read it AGAIN!

Just realize that 'just perhaps' you think that you understand Paul? (smile!)

---Elijah

 

[glorydaz]

No toy here. But it seems that there is some on both sides that do not know the difference of God Eternal Law & Moses stuff!

NOW: Bottom line! Notice real good.
"And hallow my Sabbaths; and they shall be a SIGN between [Me and you], that ye [may know that I am the Lord your God]. Notwithstanding the children rebelled [against me: they walked not in my 'STATUES' ... WHEREFORE I GAVE THEM [ALSO] STATUES THAT WERE NOT GOOD, AND JUDGEMENTS WHEREBY THEY SHOULD *NOT LIVE.." Eze. 20:verse 20 & verse 25.
What did that say?? Read it AGAIN!

Just realize that 'just perhaps' you think that you understand Paul? (smile!)

---Elijah

I'm not sure what you're trying to say...
maybe just come right out and say it, instead of leaving us to guess...
So what did Jeremiah prophecy about the New Covenant?

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

1. God is making the New Covenant with the House of Judah and Israel AFTER the birth, life, death, burial, resurrection and ascension of the Messiah, because the Old Covenant had to be fulfilled by Him and the New Covenant dedicated with the Blood of Christ.

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

2. God is going to write the New Testament in the inward parts... in fleshly tables of the heart, NOT IN TABLES OF STONE.

Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Moses brought down the second set of stones and placed them inside the Ark of the Covenant, signifying the Second or New Testament or Covenant.

And he took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the staves on the ark, and put the mercy seat above upon the ark:

The Gospels show Jesus the Messiah, walking around FULFILLING the law.
Paul writes that the Messiah was born under the law. “But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth His son made of a woman, made UNDER THE LAW, to redeem them that were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

When the Holy Spirit was poured out into the hearts and minds on the Day of Pentecost, as prophesied by Jeremiah and Joel (Jer, 31:31-34; Joel 2: 21-29), and confirmed by Peter (Acts 1:16-18), the New Covenant was established...the Old had been fulfilled.

In other words, Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, removed it, died on the cross (Col. 2:14), sacrificed His blood, resurrected from the dead, and ascended to the Father, BEFORE the New Covenant could become effective. Which is why we are now under the New Covenant.

9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

 

[RND]

Which is why we are now under the New Covenant.

Question: What qualifies you as part of the house of Judah or Israel?

 

[glorydaz]

Which is why we are now under the New Covenant.

Question: What qualifies you as part of the house of Judah or Israel?

I'm a child of the promise.

 

[RND]

Which is why we are now under the New Covenant.

Question: What qualifies you as part of the house of Judah or Israel?

I'm a child of the promise.

By faith you are saved then because you have accepted the blood of the Lamb and have eaten His word of truth. Does that word of truth include obeying Him and keeping His commandments?

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. - Did the Ten Commandments include any deeds or were those found in the law of Moshe?

Rom 3:29 [Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: - Then are the gentiles not required to obey Him and hear Him?

Rom 3:30 Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. - Justified by faith and faith alone. Certainly that doesn't make void the Ten Commandments.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. - Exactly! Through faith we obey Jesus and not through the deeds of of the law. The killing of bulls and goats and lamb was made unnecessary. When we obey the word of God through faith we establish the law.

 

[Vince]

We are not under the Law. However, nine of the Ten Commandments are re-stated in some form for Christians to obey. The book of Hebrews specifically states that we are not under the Sabbath,l because Jesus is our Sabbath.

 

[glorydaz]

We are not under the Law. However, nine of the Ten Commandments are re-stated in some form for Christians to obey. The book of Hebrews specifically states that we are not under the Sabbath,l because Jesus is our Sabbath.

 

[JudaicChristian]

We are not under the Law. However, nine of the Ten Commandments are re-stated in some form for Christians to obey. The book of Hebrews specifically states that we are not under the Sabbath,l because Jesus is our Sabbath.

The book of Hebrews does not say that, it is speaking about holidays, not the sabbath. The Catholic Church is the one who instituted the Sunday sabbath from the demand of the newly converted Pagans.

 

[glorydaz]

I'm a child of the promise.

By faith you are saved then because you have accepted the blood of the Lamb and have eaten His word of truth. Does that word of truth include obeying Him and keeping His commandments?

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. - Did the Ten Commandments include any deeds or were those found in the law of Moshe?

Rom 3:29 [Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: - Then are the gentiles not required to obey Him and hear Him?

Rom 3:30 Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. - Justified by faith and faith alone. Certainly that doesn't make void the Ten Commandments.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. - Exactly! Through faith we obey Jesus and not through the deeds of of the law. The killing of bulls and goats and lamb was made unnecessary. When we obey the word of God through faith we establish the law.

All believers are the Israel of God...children of the promise.
We have Christ's law written in our hearts.

Our work is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and follow the leading of the His Holy Spirit.
"Trust and obey...for there's no other way". :amen

 

[JudaicChristian]

Catholicism regarding the Sabbath

Different statements made by Catholic clergy regarding the Sabbath. Here are some quotes with their sources:

"It was the Catholic church which...has transferred this rest to Sunday in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord. Therefore the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) church." Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About Protestantism of Today, p. 213.

"Sunday is our mark of authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

"Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. 'The day of the Lord' was chosen, not from any direction noted in the scriptures, but from the Catholic church's sense of its own power...People who think that the scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy." St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.

 

[glorydaz]

We are not under the Law. However, nine of the Ten Commandments are re-stated in some form for Christians to obey. The book of Hebrews specifically states that we are not under the Sabbath,l because Jesus is our Sabbath.

The book of Hebrews does not say that, it is speaking about holidays, not the sabbath. The Catholic Church is the one who instituted the Sunday sabbath from the demand of the newly converted Pagans.

It has nothing to do with what the Catholic Church did or did not do.
The Sabbath was for Israel only.

 

[RND]

All believers are the Israel of God...children of the promise.
We have Christ's law written in our hearts.

Does that include the one's that disobey him?

Our work is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and follow the leading of the His Holy Spirit.
"Trust and obey...for there's no other way". :amen

So you agree then that when we obey the word of God through faith we establish the law.

Question: If it was the intention of God to abolish His Ten Commandments upon the death of Christ why did Jesus have to die? Couldn't have God just as easily removed His law without the death of Christ?