Should Christians Keep the Ten Commandments Today???

[Brother Lionel]

Can you show me in the bible where it teaches that the whole law of Moses was abolished?

 

[RND]

Can you show me in the bible where it teaches that the whole law of Moses was abolished?

Well BL, if the law was abolished then the law respecting marriage/remarriage have been done away with.

 

[Brother Lionel]

Right. And dont forget about the law of abstaining from charmers, consulters with familiar spirits, wizards, necromancers, or enchanters...

Since the Law of Moses has been done away with, I guess its okay to associate with people who consult with the spirits of darkness...

 

[glorydaz]

Can you show me in the bible where it teaches that the whole law of Moses was abolished?

We're under the New Covenant which calls for a higher degree of holiness and obedience than the ten commandments ever could.

The 10 commandments are part of the Stone Law (Law of Moses)...Old Covenant.

And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

The New Covenant took effect at the cross.

7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 

[glorydaz]

Can you show me in the bible where it teaches that the whole law of Moses was abolished?

Well BL, if the law was abolished then the law respecting marriage/remarriage have been done away with.

The NT gives us more instructions about marriage than the OT did....just a couple here.

For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

God's eternal law goes back before the stone law...we had, two shall become one flesh from the beginning.
"God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
Genesis 4:1 - And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

 

[glorydaz]

Right. And dont forget about the law of abstaining from charmers, consulters with familiar spirits, wizards, necromancers, or enchanters...

Since the Law of Moses has been done away with, I guess its okay to associate with people who consult with the spirits of darkness...

LOL I do believe the Lord covered that in the New Testament. :yes

 

[RND]

We're under the New Covenant which calls for a higher degree of holiness and obedience than the ten commandments ever could.

The 10 commandments are part of the Stone Law (Law of Moses)...Old Covenant.

glorydaz, have you considered who he new covenant was promised too?

 

[RND]

The NT gives us more instructions about marriage than the OT did....just a couple here.

Yet the NT does nothing to remove those instructions.

For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

Paul is citing OT law here, not making new provisions.

The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

This too is reiterating OT law, not making a new provision.

God's eternal law goes back before the stone law...we had, two shall become one flesh from the beginning.

I agree.

 

[RND]

LOL I do believe the Lord covered that in the New Testament. :yes

Just as He did in the OT - glorydaz, do you see something in the NT that tells us to disregard the instruction of the OT?

 

[francisdesales]

LOL I do believe the Lord covered that in the New Testament. :yes

Just as He did in the OT - glorydaz, do you see something in the NT that tells us to disregard the instruction of the OT?

Go read Hebrews, where Paul talks about the Law being abrogated, as the NEW Covenant REPLACES the Old...

Regards

 

[RND]

Go read Hebrews, where Paul talks about the Law being abrogated, as the NEW Covenant REPLACES the Old...

I've read Hebrews many times. Paul says nothing about the law being abrogated. Hebrew 10 recalls the promise of Jeremiah 31.

Who was that promise made to and what qualifies you to be apart of that promise?

 

[glorydaz]

LOL I do believe the Lord covered that in the New Testament. :yes

Just as He did in the OT - glorydaz, do you see something in the NT that tells us to disregard the instruction of the OT?

The law was the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. We are no longer under the schoolmaster. v. 25

9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

 

[glorydaz]

Without means "outside of." Those that were born "outside" of the law of Moses are saved "outside" of the law of Moses. When those that do the things of the law, even though they were born outside of it, they provide evidence that the law is written on their hearts.

No one is saved BY the Law of Moses, doesn't Paul make that clear enough in Galatians and Romans??? The point I am making is whether someone is BOUND by the Law of Moses, not whether it can save me or Jews...

The "works of the law" were unnecessary for salvation., i.e. the sacrificing of animals, etc.

Jews and those who desire to bind themselves to the Law of Moses are bound by it, not that it can save in of itself. It is faith in God that saves - and obeying the Law of Moses is an expression of faith (for Jews and "Judaizers"). It is the faith in God that saves.

When we review Romans 2 we should take into consideration just exactly how Paul frames the conversation:

Paul is saying, quite succinctly, that one can boast in the law of Moses and still be a lawbreaker.

Paul is saying that such persons are hypocrites... He is comparing the proud Jews and their law, which they weren't following, to the Gentiles who had no law (written) and yet were SPIRITUAL Jews, which made them RIGHTEOUS.

He goes on to point out that a man who is circumcised violates the law then his circumcision is actually counted as uncircumcision! As if he was never part of the house of Israel. So therefore if a man that has been circumcised in the heart steals or otherwise breaks the law then his circumcision is counted as uncircumcision.

In other words, when one binds themselves to a Law, the Mosaic Law, they are bound to follow ALL of it. EVERY BIT OF IT. No pork eating, no working on Saturdays, and stoning any women who commit adultery or blaspheme the name of the Lord...

Thus, those who bind themselves to the Mosaic Law are considered spiritually uncircumcised, even if they go to church on Saturday, if they do not follow ALL of the MOSAIC LAW.

Regards

Amen.

 

[glorydaz]

But Francis,
We're not discussing the issue of salvation. The law does not and never will save us. Jesus is our Savior, not the law. We are discussing the Christian life after salvation has taken place. After someone accepts Jesus as Lord and Savior, should they live by the ten principles given by God and not cheat on their spouse? Should they live by the ten principles and respect their parents? Should they live by the ten principles and worship God only? Are we not to obey the commandments of God because of grace? Or can we disregard the ten commandments because of grace? And what standard principle is higher than the ten commandments? Are not hese principles the ultimate standard at which we will be judged by (James 2:12)?

There is no higher standard than what Christ gave us. There are around 180 commandments in the New Testament. Christ is the end of the law for those who believe, and all of the law is included in the two Great Commandments. Love God and love your neighbor.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The unsaved are still under God's eternal law of sin and death.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[RND]

The law was the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. We are no longer under the schoolmaster. v. 25

Exactly. We were once in kindergarten and had a schoolmaster. Now we are graduate school students of the Holy Spirit and there are still rules that must be obeyed.

One can't say that they are saved a Christian if they refuse to surrender to the Spirit and continue in sin.

Maybe this article from a Messianic pastor I enjoy reading would be of benefit to you glorydaz:

GALATIANS - WAS PAUL TEACHING AGAINST THE LAW?

 

[RND]

....all of the law is included in the two Great Commandments. Love God and love your neighbor.

These are actually Torah directives. Leviticus 19:19 and Deuteronomy 6:4-5 (known as the Shema prayer).

 

[glorydaz]

No one is saved BY the Law of Moses, doesn't Paul make that clear enough in Galatians and Romans??? The point I am making is whether someone is BOUND by the Law of Moses, not whether it can save me or Jews...

Ten Commandments are not Moses laws. It is God's laws. And Jesus says "If you love me, keep my commandments."
.

Yes, the Ten are the Law of Moses...they're the basis for the Old Covenant with Israel.
Many dietary laws, etc. were added on to the 10.

And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Jesus' commandments are not the stone law.

The apostle Paul, a Jew said, "I MYSELF AM NOT UNDER THE LAW" (1 Cor. 9:20).
"ALL WHO RELY ON OBSERVING THE LAW ARE UNDER A CURSE" (Gal. 3:10).
"CHRIST REDEEMED US FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW" (Gal. 3:13).
"NOW THAT FAITH HAS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF THE LAW" (Gal. 3:25).
"YOU HAVE BEEN SEVERED FROM CHRIST, YOU WHO ARE SEEKING TO BE JUSTIFIED BY LAW; YOU HAVE FALLEN FROM GRACE" (Gal. 5:4).
"IF YOU ARE LED BY THE SPIRIT YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW" (Gal. 5:18).
"WHATEVER THE LAW SAYS, IT SPEAKS TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW (Jews who are not born again)" (Rom. 3:19).
"THOSE WHO ARE CIRCUMCISED [JEWS] DO NOT EVEN KEEP THE LAW THEMSELVES" (Gal. 6:11).
"IF RIGHTEOUSNESS COULD BE GAINED THROUGH [KEEPING] THE LAW, CHRIST DIED FOR NOTHING!" (Gal. 2:21).
"GENTLES...DO NOT HAVE THE LAW...THEY DO NOT HAVE THE LAW" (Rom. 2:14) (Gentiles never have and never will have the Law.)
"NO ONE WILL BE DECLARED RIGHTEOUS IN HIS [GOD'S] SIGHT BY OBSERVING THE LAW" (Rom. 3:20).
"SIN SHALL NOT BE YOUR MASTER, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT UNDER LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE" (Rom. 6:14).
"WE HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM THE LAW SO THAT WE SERVE IN THE NEW WAY OF THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE OLD WAY OF THE WRITTEN CODE" (Rom. 7:6).
"CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW ... FOR EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES" (Rom. 10:4).
THE LAW IS "THE MINISTRY OF DEATH...[AND] CONDEMNATION" (2 Cor. 3:7 & 9).

 

[glorydaz]

The law was the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. We are no longer under the schoolmaster. v. 25

Exactly. We were once in kindergarten and had a schoolmaster. Now we are graduate school students of the Holy Spirit and there are still rules that must be obeyed.

One can't say that they are saved a Christian if they refuse to surrender to the Spirit and continue in sin.

Maybe this article from a Messianic pastor I enjoy reading would be of benefit to you glorydaz:

GALATIANS - WAS PAUL TEACHING AGAINST THE LAW?

We are no longer under the law. We are under grace.
Does that mean we don't obey what Jesus said? No.
We are led by the Spirit and have Jesus' words written on our hearts.
We do have liberty now. There are not a set of rules we must follow.
We follow the leading of the Spirit. It's a higher calling than the law could ever be.

 

[RND]

Yes, the Ten are the Law of Moses...they're the basis for the Old Covenant with Israel.
Many dietary laws, etc. were added on to the 10.

Glordaz, the Ten Commandments were the words of the covenant, the law of Moshe was the "witness against" the verbal oath that Israel promised they would perform.

In all actuality the words of the covenant were agreed to by the C.O.I. in Exodus 19.

And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Exactly! The Ten Commandments not the law of Moshe.

And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Jesus' commandments are not the stone law.

They are much deeper!Jesus writes these laws on the heart of man.

 

[glorydaz]

....all of the law is included in the two Great Commandments. Love God and love your neighbor.

These are actually Torah directives. Leviticus 19:19 and Deuteronomy 6:4-5 (known as the Shema prayer).

I'll go for this one....

- Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

But this one doesn't quite cut it. :biglaugh

- 19Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

Jesus gave us a new and better covenant.
Of course He used the old to make the new...He is the same God.

But if someone follows the old, they will break the new.
Now, if you even think about a sin, its' a sin. The laws are written in our hearts.