Should Christians Keep the Ten Commandments Today???

[RND]

The Sabbath was for Israel only.

Was Adam an Israelite?

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

 

[RND]

We are not under the Law. However, nine of the Ten Commandments are re-stated in some form for Christians to obey. The book of Hebrews specifically states that we are not under the Sabbath,l because Jesus is our Sabbath.

How come the Israelites didn't get to enter the promised land?

 

[JudaicChristian]

Here is the first Sunday Law in history, a legal enactment by Constantine 1 (reigned 306-331): "On the Venerable Day of the Sun ["venerabili die Solis"--the sacred day of the Sun] let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost--Given the 7th day of March, [A.D. 321], Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time."--The First Sunday Law of Constantine 1, in "Codex Justinianus," lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Phillip Schaff "History of the Christian Church," Vol. 3, p. 380. /// Here is the first Sunday Law decree of a Christian council. It was given about 16 years after Constantine's first Sunday Law of A.D. 321: "Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [in the original: "sabbato"--shall not be idle on the Sabbath], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day they shall especially honour, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out ['anathema,'--excommunicated] from Christ."--Council of Laodicea, c. A.D. 337, Canon 29, quoted in C.J. Hefele, "A History of the Councils of the Church," Vol. 2, p. 316.

 

[JudaicChristian]

We are not under the Law. However, nine of the Ten Commandments are re-stated in some form for Christians to obey. The book of Hebrews specifically states that we are not under the Sabbath,l because Jesus is our Sabbath.

The book of Hebrews does not say that, it is speaking about holidays, not the sabbath. The Catholic Church is the one who instituted the Sunday sabbath from the demand of the newly converted Pagans.

It has nothing to do with what the Catholic Church did or did not do.
The Sabbath was for Israel only.

That statement is wrong. The Sabbath was given to Adam (Mankind.) The people who came out of Egypt with the Hebrews were also called Jews.

 

[glorydaz]

The Sabbath was for Israel only.

Was Adam an Israelite?

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

That's fishing pretty deep. Was Adam ever told how to keep the Sabbath, or told to keep it?
For 2500 years after creation, no holy men of God were told to keep the Sabbath.
Did Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph ever keep the Sabbath?
Nope...it was given to Israel.

 

[RND]

That's fishing pretty deep.

Well, considering man was made on the sixth day and the sabbath was made on the 7th day are we to assume God DIDN'T tell Adam what was going on?

Was Adam ever told how to keep the Sabbath, or told to keep it?

Well, I don't see God leaving Adam and Eve any instruction on how to make babies but they seemed to figure it out.

For 2500 years after creation, no holy men of God were told to keep the Sabbath.

They weren't told not to either.

Did Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph ever keep the Sabbath?
Nope...it was given to Israel.

Actually since Enoch walked with God I would venture to bet he did. Also, read Gen. 26:5. Abraham obeyed God's Towrah. So yes, I would venture to guess that God's law was handed down by word of mouth.

 

[glorydaz]

All believers are the Israel of God...children of the promise.
We have Christ's law written in our hearts.

Does that include the one's that disobey him?

Our work is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and follow the leading of the His Holy Spirit.
"Trust and obey...for there's no other way". :amen

So you agree then that when we obey the word of God through faith we establish the law.

Question: If it was the intention of God to abolish His Ten Commandments upon the death of Christ why did Jesus have to die? Couldn't have God just as easily removed His law without the death of Christ?

I'm not sure what you're trying to get here.
Why don't you just come right out and ask...I'll be more than happy to answer.

Are you confused about some basic principles of faith?
1. Believers who disobey are chastened when they disobey the Spirit's leading.
If they don't have the Spirit..they aren't born again, and they are the children of unrighteousness.

2. We establish the Law of Faith...not the stone law.

3. God could have done anything He liked...what he chose to do, was give us a new and better Covenant through Christ Jesus.

 

[glorydaz]

We are not under the Law. However, nine of the Ten Commandments are re-stated in some form for Christians to obey. The book of Hebrews specifically states that we are not under the Sabbath,l because Jesus is our Sabbath.

How come the Israelites didn't get to enter the promised land?

Unbelief...the same reason some don't enter in today.

 

[glorydaz]

Here is the first Sunday Law in history, a legal enactment by Constantine 1 (reigned 306-331): "On the Venerable Day of the Sun ["venerabili die Solis"--the sacred day of the Sun] let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost--Given the 7th day of March, [A.D. 321], Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time."--The First Sunday Law of Constantine 1, in "Codex Justinianus," lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Phillip Schaff "History of the Christian Church," Vol. 3, p. 380. /// Here is the first Sunday Law decree of a Christian council. It was given about 16 years after Constantine's first Sunday Law of A.D. 321: "Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday [in the original: "sabbato"--shall not be idle on the Sabbath], but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day they shall especially honour, and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out ['anathema,'--excommunicated] from Christ."--Council of Laodicea, c. A.D. 337, Canon 29, quoted in C.J. Hefele, "A History of the Councils of the Church," Vol. 2, p. 316.

It doesn't matter in the least what anyone else did...it only matters what God did.
He did away with the Sabbath...Jesus is our Sabbath.

 

[glorydaz]

That's fishing pretty deep.

Well, considering man was made on the sixth day and the sabbath was made on the 7th day are we to assume God DIDN'T tell Adam what was going on?

Was Adam ever told how to keep the Sabbath, or told to keep it?

Well, I don't see God leaving Adam and Eve any instruction on how to make babies but they seemed to figure it out.

[quote:1v5p3qad]For 2500 years after creation, no holy men of God were told to keep the Sabbath.

They weren't told not to either.

Did Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph ever keep the Sabbath?
Nope...it was given to Israel.

Actually since Enoch walked with God I would venture to bet he did. Also, read Gen. 26:5. Abraham obeyed God's Towrah. So yes, I would venture to guess that God's law was handed down by word of mouth.[/quote:1v5p3qad]

You're bettin' on a dead horse. None of them practiced the Sabbath...NONE.
The day of rest in Genesis was a foreshadowing of the rest we have in our Saviour.

The Sabbath was given specifically to the Jews when they were delivered from bondage in Egypt.

 

[RND]

I'm not sure what you're trying to get here.
Why don't you just come right out and ask...I'll be more than happy to answer.

glorydaz, I did come right out and ask a question. 2 in fact.

If it was the intention of God to abolish His Ten Commandments upon the death of Christ why did Jesus have to die? Couldn't have God just as easily removed His law without the death of Christ?

Are you confused about some basic principles of faith?

Mot at all.

1. Believers who disobey are chastened when they disobey the Spirit's leading.
If they don't have the Spirit..they aren't born again, and they are the children of unrighteousness.

So then a "believer" can flip/flop between being saved and lost?

2. We establish the Law of Faith...not the stone law.

Does the law of faith omit the Ten Commandments?

3. God could have done anything He liked...what he chose to do, was give us a new and better Covenant through Christ Jesus.

So then Christ need not have died?

 

[RND]

You're bettin' on a dead horse. None of them practiced the Sabbath...NONE.

Great! Point me to the scripture that states this.

The day of rest in Genesis was a foreshadowing of the rest we have in our Saviour.

If that's true then what did the other commandments foreshadow in the work of Christ? For example what did the 7th commandment foreshadow? The 8th? 10th?

The Sabbath was given specifically to the Jews when they were delivered from bondage in Egypt.

How do you explain then that 1) it was a mixed multitude that came out of Egypt, and 2) strangers were required to observe the sabbath?

 

[RND]

It doesn't matter in the least what anyone else did...it only matters what God did.

True. God made the sabbath for man.

He did away with the Sabbath...Jesus is our Sabbath.

If God's law is holy, just and perfect why would the sabbath need to be done away with? Why would God say "Remember" if He intended to remove the sabbath?

 

[glorydaz]

Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

It was given to the children of Israel...if anyone thinks we should be keeping it today, they might want to consider the penalty for breaking it.

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

 

[RND]

I think maybe you're toying with me.

Not at all. Just asking questions.

You said, "The ten are still in there, but they've been expanded." So when I ask if they're still in there they haven't gone anywhere you tell me I'm wrong. So are they still in there or have they gone away?

 

[glorydaz]

I'm not sure what you're trying to get here.
Why don't you just come right out and ask...I'll be more than happy to answer.

glorydaz, I did come right out and ask a question. 2 in fact.

If it was the intention of God to abolish His Ten Commandments upon the death of Christ why did Jesus have to die? Couldn't have God just as easily removed His law without the death of Christ?

Are you confused about some basic principles of faith?

Mot at all.

[quote:3fdeymr8]1. Believers who disobey are chastened when they disobey the Spirit's leading.
If they don't have the Spirit..they aren't born again, and they are the children of unrighteousness.

So then a "believer" can flip/flop between being saved and lost?

2. We establish the Law of Faith...not the stone law.

Does the law of faith omit the Ten Commandments?

3. God could have done anything He liked...what he chose to do, was give us a new and better Covenant through Christ Jesus.

So then Christ need not have died?[/quote:3fdeymr8]

And I answered them...what, you don't like my answers?
Jesus had to die for a much bigger reason than abolishing the law.
Surely you don't need me to go into that?
Flip flop....we have a great thread on Salvation...maybe you should look there.
However, I'll answer...no, a person doesn't go in and out of being saved.
Do you know what being born again a new creature is all about?

Yes, the Law of faith omits the stone law. It was fulfilled, waxed old, and a new law of faith is the order of the day.

Christ had to die...the law had nothing to do with whether he had to die or not.

 

[RND]

Moses brought down the second set of stones and placed them inside the Ark of the Covenant, signifying the Second or New Testament or Covenant.

Question: Since that's true and the second set also included the 4th commandment, just as the first did, then can we not conclude that the 4th commandment is also part of the "New Testament or Covenant"? Just askin'.

 

[RND]

And I answered them...what, you don't like my answers?

Well, let's just say I'm not in agreement with them.

Jesus had to die for a much bigger reason than abolishing the law.

So then the law was not abolished at His death right?

Surely you don't need me to go into that?

You're right, I don't.

Flip flop....we have a great thread on Salvation...maybe you should look there.

Maybe.

However, I'll answer...no, a person doesn't go in and out of being saved.

So then a person can accept Jesus and continue a life of sin?

Do you know what being born again a new creature is all about?

I do! A sinner becomes a non-sinner through obedience (Romans 4).

Yes, the Law of faith omits the stone law.

How? You said in an earlier post that the ten commandments are still part of the new covenant so you'll have to excuse my confusion. How can the ten commandments be part of the new covenant, yet have been abolished?

It was fulfilled, waxed old, and a new law of faith is the order of the day.

So in other words faith does not include being obedient to the word of God?

Christ had to die...the law had nothing to do with whether he had to die or not.

Christ died in your place and mind so I would suspect the law had a tremendous amount to do with His death. In fact Jesus "became" sin.

Were the Ten Commandments nailed to the cross? Is the very sin that started with Adam and Eve and nailed our loving Saviour to the cross something God no longer cares about? Did Jesus die so we could continue living in lawlessness? Is this what the Bible really says about the Ten Commandments, or are these just lies from our adversary who is determined to keep and steal everyone he can from God's kingdom, especially as we draw closer to this Earths final days?

 

[glorydaz]

You're bettin' on a dead horse. None of them practiced the Sabbath...NONE.

Great! Point me to the scripture that states this.

The day of rest in Genesis was a foreshadowing of the rest we have in our Saviour.

If that's true then what did the other commandments foreshadow in the work of Christ? For example what did the 7th commandment foreshadow? The 8th? 10th?

[quote:31enofvb]The Sabbath was given specifically to the Jews when they were delivered from bondage in Egypt.

How do you explain then that 1) it was a mixed multitude that came out of Egypt, and 2) strangers were required to observe the sabbath?[/quote:31enofvb]

Better yet...you point me to a scripture that ever said one word about the Sabbath before it was given to the children of Israel. You won't find it because it isn't there. Why would anyone feel the need to point out something that was never there? God resting on the seventh day is not the Sabbath law...it is pointing to the Sabbath rest we have in Christ. I'll give this next verse in three different translations so you can get the true meaning...some just skim over this verse, and it's very important. This is one of the few the KJV gets wrong...the say Jesus instead of Joshua.

for if Joshua had given them rest, He would not concerning another day have spoken after these things; there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God, for he who did enter into his rest, he also rested from his works, as God from His own. YLT

For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. NIV

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. KJV

Referring to this...

4And now the LORD your God hath given rest unto your brethren, as he promised them: therefore now return ye, and get you unto your tents, and unto the land of your possession, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave you on the other side Jordan.

What's to explain concerning the strangers? It has nothing to do with the Sabbath law itself.

 

[glorydaz]

I think maybe you're toying with me.

Not at all. Just asking questions.

You said, "The ten are still in there, but they've been expanded." So when I ask if they're still in there they haven't gone anywhere you tell me I'm wrong. So are they still in there or have they gone away?

If I gave my kid a curfew of 9:00, and then later changed it to 11:00, is it still in there?
Does it matter one iota if it is? No, it doesn't, because the curfew is now 11:00.