Should Christians pull guns on intruders?

[Drew]

Nothing of Gods is COMMON. We are not called to be COMMON but to be peculiar people in the earth.

I agree with the spirit of your post.

I know that this will offend the "its OK to shoot intruders" people, but this issue separates those who really take Jesus at His word from those who will take Him at His word only to the point where self-preservation kicks in.

Hear the words of our Lord:

If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."

To be a member of Jesus' kingdom is to categorically reject violence. People will try to see this verse as being a "special case" - that Jesus knows He needs to go to the cross, so He cannot allow his disciples to prevent that.

I believe Jesus cleverly closes the door on that possibility - The reason he gives for the non-violence of his followers is not the specifc circumstance of needing to go to the cross, but rather the very nature of the kingdom that is being initiated.

 

[GojuBrian]

I know that this will offend the "its OK to shoot intruders" people, but this issue separates those who really take Jesus at His word from those who will take Him at His word only to the point where self-preservation kicks in.

Yes, God wants us to be victims and we should all act accordingly................... :crazy

You can let a man rape your wife and kids or worse while you preach to him if you want Drew, I'm sure that's what Jesus wants, he wouldn't want you to use your evil gun to stop him would he?? Me, I'm going to turn him into swiss cheese.

 

[LostSoul]

This will likely make me a false christian...if so...then I shall just have to deal. But if it became a matter of the life of a robber or my infant son, I would protect the life of my son. Allowing myself to be hurt is one thing, but my family should not have to do the same.

 

[GojuBrian]

This will likely make me a false christian...if so...then I shall just have to deal. But if it became a matter of the life of a robber or my infant son, I would protect the life of my son. Allowing myself to be hurt is one thing, but my family should not have to do the same.

I don't agree completely. Your child depends on YOU. By preserving your life, you preserve the life of your child. You have the God given right and the duty to protect yourself from those that would harm you.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

What truly is being shown here is where peoples faith is at. Where is the Truth that GOD can preserve our lives? It is clear here that the only possiblity being considered by most is either i protect myself and others or we all die. Where is the faith in God? Where do we depend on HIM to keep our lives that HE BOUGHT with His blood? We are not our own. We are bought with a price. We are the temple of the living God- Cannot God protect His own temple? Cannot God deliver? Cannot God redeem? Cannot God hear us if we call out of HIM for help in a situation as this? Everyone acts as if not defending oneself or others by fleshly means, leaves nothing left but to die and let others be raped. No one even considers they could call our " Jesus deliver us!" or something of the sort. That is because people do not believe that God really hears us and answers. They dont believe that Gods promises and word holds true. Or that God is willing to actually intervene for us. Is your God off the throne? Is He asleep? Does He not care for you more then sparrows and lillies? Are His promises not good? What form of God do you have if you do not desire and find Him worthy to lean on with everything and everyone? Why do you find YOUR power, weapon, arm mightier to deliver then HIS?

Psa 22:4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

Psa 25:20 O keep my soul, and deliver me: let me not be ashamed; for I put my trust in thee.

Psa 31:2 Bow down thine ear to me; deliver me speedily: be thou my strong rock, for an house of defence to save me.


Psa 37:39 But the salvation of the righteous [is] of the LORD: [he is] their strength in the time of trouble.
Psa 37:40 And the LORD shall help them, and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him.



Psa 59:2 Deliver me from the workers of iniquity, and save me from bloody men.

 

[lionandthelamb]

i never said i was mightier than God or my choices were. i believe God gave us the will and mind to make those decisions in tough times. do i carry a gun around on the streets.. no. this was one certain instance and yes if someone broke into my house, i wouldn't pull a gun on them to save myself but my FAMILY. i couldn't stand by and let someone murder my family .. even if that meant the worst for me, i couldn't.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

i never said i was mightier than God or my choices were. i believe God gave us the will and mind to make those decisions in tough times. do i carry a gun around on the streets.. no. this was one certain instance and yes if someone broke into my house, i wouldn't pull a gun on them to save myself but my FAMILY. i couldn't stand by and let someone murder my family .. even if that meant the worst for me, i couldn't.

but what you say proves my point- why is it stand by and do nothing or defend them- why is calling on God to deliver and trusting in Him to keep His word not even an option considered here? Do you believe God hears you when you call to Him? Do you believe He is able to save and deliver and protect us from enemies, intruders, wicked men who would harm us or our families?

 

[lovely]

What truly is being shown here is where peoples faith is at. Where is the Truth that GOD can preserve our lives? It is clear here that the only possiblity being considered by most is either i protect myself and others or we all die. Where is the faith in God? Where do we depend on HIM to keep our lives that HE BOUGHT with His blood? We are not our own. We are bought with a price. We are the temple of the living God- Cannot God protect His own temple? Cannot God deliver? Cannot God redeem? Cannot God hear us if we call out of HIM for help in a situation as this? Everyone acts as if not defending oneself or others by fleshly means, leaves nothing left but to die and let others be raped. No one even considers they could call our " Jesus deliver us!" or something of the sort. That is because people do not believe that God really hears us and answers. They dont believe that Gods promises and word holds true. Or that God is willing to actually intervene for us. Is your God off the throne? Is He asleep? Does He not care for you more then sparrows and lillies? Are His promises not good? What form of God do you have if you do not desire and find Him worthy to lean on with everything and everyone? Why do you find YOUR power, weapon, arm mightier to deliver then HIS?

To GodsPromisesRyes and to all reading,

I don't think this description of the hearts of believers on this board is accurate. I think we are all relying on God to lead us and keep us according to His will. I think most are not even expecting God to preserve their life, but are willing to lay their lives down. We can accuse others of lacking faith when we don't agree, but who truly knows one's measure of faith, but God? As believers we do believe God, we are walking in the Spirit, and we do trust in His power.

All of us would be praying to God in that moment, I believe, especially for deliverance, but that wouldn't prevent some of us from letting the children out to safety, or putting ouselves between them and an intruder, or even trying to defend them. Laying your life down to protect someone from being harmed is loving. We can be used by God, we can act according to the Spirit. How do we know what, or whom, God will use to bring about His will? God does use people to carry out His plans, and so why not a Father, or a mother, or a husband, etc.? No one is advocating murder or vengence, or not trusting the Lord in faith, people are simply saying that love would lead them to protect others, according to God's will and grace. Of course, none of us can say for sure until we are in that moment and the Holy Spirit is leading us.

I hope no one reading here feels shamed, or feels that they lack faith in Jesus, or that are denying God's power because they think they would act to protect others. It's obvious we all may disagree on method, but certainly as believers we are all motivated by the same faith and love in Jesus, and that we all desire to do God's will. If one is led to pray only, then he should obey. If another is led to act, then he should obey and act. Who knows the future, or how the Holy Spirit would lead? When we had an intruder as I described in an earlier post, I acted, and God protected us. When I was a very young woman, I was attacked, and while I didn't have time to act, I prayed the whole night. Though I suffered, my life was spared. I was a believer both times, and I believe God led me both times, and I believe that God used these things to build up my faith, but He never condemned me for lacking faith.

I think we also have to consider that it just may be the Lord's will that we die, or that we suffer, and that calling out to Him or acting to protect our families, will not change His will if He has other plans for us. It truly is up to Him, and we need to be given over to His will.

The Lord bless.

 

[GojuBrian]

lovely,

Once again you have expressed many of our feelings very well. Thankyou!

 

[jasoncran]

to take a life in self defense isnt something that christian feel should good about , but it sad when it has to been done, and unavoidable. i cant fathom loving my neighboor yet turn the check when he or she are being assaulted i refuse to help when i could.

help can come in the form of 911 or you getting involved with a loaded weapon if need be,of course 911 should be called first.

jason

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

my question is this- what is wrong with considering the fact that in this( or whatever)situation and issue we may be lacking faith? Are we to assume that we all walk in perfect faith and do not ever need to consider that the way we view an issue or scripture about an issue may be influenced by a lack of faith?

many times Jesus said to the apostles with rebuke " o ye of little faith" or " faithless generation" are we to think that the apostles could be told they were having a lack of faith in a given situation but we cannot?

Now i agree that we are all to be led of the Holy Spirit but the Holy Spirit will not lead us to go against the word of God, he will not lead us to act in our flesh and our own strength.

I was not suggesting the i did not think we all would pray, but i am not speaking of just praying and then going off to do something in the flesh. I am speaking of calling out to God with faith that HE will answer and deliver without us having to harm anyone by physical means. That is what is not even being considered here and each time it is mentioned it is jumped over. The issue is will God act to protect you or others if you call out to Him in faith for Him to act?

What is being shown is that sure you can call out to God but you cannot depend on Him to actually DO anything so you must call out to him and then use physical means to do it yourself.

If we do not ever see what areas we lack faith in we will never seek the word of God more completely in those areas for our faith to be built up.It is only by hearing the word of God on an issue and not our own understanding that our faith grows. If we know what God promises about delivering us and what He says about physical means of fighting or any reason, what he says about how to treat others who do evil to us that our faith grows. Whenever we look at something through our flesh and not completely through the word of God our faith will be effectied because faith cannot stand on mens understanding it must stand on the word of God. The word of God tells us that it is our righteousness that delivers us when trouble comes, if we are not walking righteously or faithfully we will have no faith towards God to deliver us or others. The word says that God hears the righteous but not the wicked. If we know that we have boldness to come before the throne of grace in righteousness by faith then we can have confidence that God will hear, does hear, and will answer us and eliver us. Now i have no problem with dying for others- but if you die for others trying to do your own works nstead of trusting in God to use his power to deliver then you did so in flesh even if you meant well and didnt know anything differnt.

 

[lionandthelamb]

lovely - i think that was an excellent answer!!!


i don't think i lack faith at all when i feel the way i do. apparently i'm just not answering the question you want to be answered. this is what you said "I am speaking of calling out to God with faith that HE will answer and deliver without us having to harm anyone by physical means." i never said i wouldn't do that, of course i would be praying at a time like that, of course i would want God to deliver me from evil and YES i do believe that in some cases if i prayed to God to save me and my family, he would. i also agree with lovely in the fact that maybe that's not what is supposed to happen, maybe regardless of what you do it's your time.

would i call out to God and ask for him to save me from evil .. YES. do i think God just sits up there and answers just because you ask him to, no i don't. i think God wants you to fully rely on him, yes but i also .. being human... would act on any person who was trying to harm my family. again, i do not go out on crusades for my own vengance every day. but if someone broke into my house and tried to harm my family, i would hope that God would give me the will to do what i had to do to save them. would it be easy, um of course not. would i feel terrible and ashamed afterwards, yes. would it be worth it, yes.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

lovely - i think that was an excellent answer!!!


i don't think i lack faith at all when i feel the way i do. apparently i'm just not answering the question you want to be answered. this is what you said "I am speaking of calling out to God with faith that HE will answer and deliver without us having to harm anyone by physical means." i never said i wouldn't do that, of course i would be praying at a time like that, of course i would want God to deliver me from evil and YES i do believe that in some cases if i prayed to God to save me and my family, he would. i also agree with lovely in the fact that maybe that's not what is supposed to happen, maybe regardless of what you do it's your time.

would i call out to God and ask for him to save me from evil .. YES. do i think God just sits up there and answers just because you ask him to, no i don't. i think God wants you to fully rely on him, yes but i also .. being human... would act on any person who was trying to harm my family. again, i do not go out on crusades for my own vengance every day. but if someone broke into my house and tried to harm my family, i would hope that God would give me the will to do what i had to do to save them. would it be easy, um of course not. would i feel terrible and ashamed afterwards, yes. would it be worth it, yes.

why would you feel terrible and ashamed afterwards? when should we ever do anything that will cause us to be ashamed?

 

[jasoncran]

she probably means that she would feel no joy in taking a life, sad, that's unavoidable, a situation that i had to prepared to do and face, but i never took a life in combat. though i was prepared to. i take no joy in anyones death, but sometimes it's unavoidable in self-defense.

jason

 

[LostSoul]

she probably means that she would feel no joy in taking a life, sad, that's unavoidable, a situation that i had to prepared to do and face, but i never took a life in combat. though i was prepared to. i take no joy in anyones death, but sometimes it's unavoidable in self-defense.

jason

Amen....there are indeed some situations that it is either a matter of them or you....sad but true.

 

[lionandthelamb]

thank you jason, that is exactly right. i hope and pray that i would never be in that situation and even if i was i wouldn't WANT to do it. of course i would feel horrible having to take someone's life.

 

[sforces]

I saw this posting and wanted to comment. As a former law enforcement officer in the military and with a State Police Organization, whether on the job or off, the last thing anyone wants to do is pull a weapon on someone. If your intention is protect your family when you have a home invasion, not a thought of hesitation enters and you have to stop the threat immediately. This is more or less "what if" questions cause there are a million circumstances that could occur. If your intent is evil in nature to take a life a persons life, then no.


want

thank you jason, that is exactly right. i hope and pray that i would never be in that situation and even if i was i wouldn't WANT to do it. of course i would feel horrible having to take someone's life.