Should one exercise speaking in tongues?

[Hopeful 2]

Any evidence over the last 100 years when a born again believer starts speaking in a known language foreign to them prior to the regeneration? For example, someone who has never spoken ancient Greek prior to being born again starts speaking it perfectly once regenerated?

I wouldn't know, but my view of the world is small.

Personally, I wish God gave me the ability to speak ancient Greek after being regenerated. That did not happen.

It isn't up to you.
If your turn from sin was real, and you were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins,
you will have received the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Tongues is the next sign, for the unbelievers of your conversion.

This question is not meant to downplay speaking in tongues. Every now and often I get the urge to break into a pattern of sound and utterances which was an unknown phenomenon to me prior to regeneration but then I cool down.

If you want the gift, why stop it ?

From 1 Peter 5:8 "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." Speaking in tongues is associated with a heightened excited psychological state and one can never be sure that opens the door to a Satanic attack.

Says who ?
Is that written in the bible ?
Or is it from someone who denies the gifts of God ?

Lastly, and most importantly speaking in tongues can be a social equilibrium too in a church setting where some try to appear regenerated by just babbling incoherently.

If there is no interpreter, that is our of line.

I say this...for the true indicator of the Holy Spirit in a faithful in Christ, are the fruits produced; and Paul has told us what they are.

Let God reign in your life, and God will give you all you need.

 

[Rodger]

Any evidence over the last 100 years when a born again believer starts speaking in a known language foreign to them prior to the regeneration? For example, someone who has never spoken ancient Greek prior to being born again starts speaking it perfectly once regenerated?

Personally, I wish God gave me the ability to speak ancient Greek after being regenerated. That did not happen.

This question is not meant to downplay speaking in tongues. Every now and often I get the urge to break into a pattern of sound and utterances which was an unknown phenomenon to me prior to regeneration but then I cool down.

From 1 Peter 5:8 "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." Speaking in tongues is associated with a heightened excited psychological state and one can never be sure that opens the door to a Satanic attack.

Lastly, and most importantly speaking in tongues can be a social equilibrium too in a church setting where some try to appear regenerated by just babbling incoherently. I say this for the true indicator of the Holy Spirit in a faithful in Christ are the fruits produced and Paul has told us what they are.

You asked..........
"Should one exercise speaking in tongues?"

NO. The only reason you would is so that you would fit in with all the others in a specific church.

Let me ask you a question....."Tongues" was a gift given to the Eleven in Mark 16:14-17 and those Eleven were the Apostles. Along with tongues there was healing the sick, raising the dead, surviving poisonous snake bites and drinking poison water.

So then.....have You raised the dead?
Have you placed you hand in front of a rattlesnake?
Have you drunk poison water?

Why not? You see of all the sign gifts the only one that can be "faked" is speaking in tongues.

Second question. Since no one today can be an apostles, why would you think that you have the "sign Gifts"?
Have you healed the sick?

 

[Rodger]

The phrase "speaking in tongues" itself is meaningless, please specify WHAT exactly do you speak. Babbling or muttering is not speaking in tongues. In Acts 2, the disciples praised God in foreign languages, so according to that example, if you praised God in French or Spanish or any other foreign language, that would be "speaking in tongue".

Speaking in tongues, or better said in the Greek is "glossolalia,".

It is a practice in which people utter words or speech-like sounds that lack any comprehensible meaning. It is usually produced during states of intense religious experience, and some believers think it is a divine language or a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Speaking in tongues occurs mostly among Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians.
It must be noted that "speaking in tongues" is NOT a sign of salvation or that you have been filled with the Holy Spirit.

Throughout the book of Acts, thousands of people believed in Jesus and nothing is said about them speaking in tongues as see in Acts 2:41, 8:5-25, 16:31-34, 21:20.

Nowhere---Nowhere--Nowhere in the New Testament is it taught that speaking in tongues is the only evidence that a person has received the Holy Spirit. In fact, the New Testament teaches the opposite. We are told that every believer in Christ has the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation as that is recorded in Romans 8:9; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Eph. 1:13-1 and not every believer speaks in tongues 1 Corinthians 12:29-31.

 

[Rodger]

The perfect is come when we get to heaven/New Jerusalem , at least that is my thoughts and other agree .

https://www.gotquestions.org/perfect-1Corinthians-13-10.html

?
When we all get to heaven,
what a day of rejoicing that will be!
When we all see Jesus,
we'll sing and shout the victory! Lidie H. Edmunds
?
Great song !

I respect your thoughts but I must say to you that an overwhelming amount of people do not agree (Not that numbers matter).

1 Corth. 13:10.........
The KJV :"When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away”.
The ESV puts it this way: “When the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.”

1 Corth 13:9 says.......
"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away."

The actual Greek word for Perfect means “complete/mature”—the incomplete will be replaced by the complete and it is Teleios.

The two most common views are the completion of the Bible and the one you believe which is the glorification of believers in heaven.

Now there is an obviouse problem in the choice you have made. The literal Word of God says .....
"When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away”.

Do you see the problem? You believe the Perfect is the eternal state BUT.....Scripture says something is coming. The glorified believers GOES TO heaven.
Also..... the New Testament never uses "teleios" for the various eschatological events that the view you advocate does. Teleios never refers to the Second Coming, millennium, or the eternal state.
Source: Robert G. Gromacki, The Modern Tongues Movement (Philadelphia: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1977), 123.

 

[hawkman]

You asked..........
"Should one exercise speaking in tongues?"

NO. The only reason you would is so that you would fit in with all the others in a specific church.

Whether or not someone speaks in tongues is up to the Holy Spirit and the person letting the Holy Spirit give the utterance .

 

[hawkman]

I respect your thoughts but I must say to you that an overwhelming amount of people do not agree (Not that numbers matter).

1 Corth. 13:10.........
The KJV :"When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away”.
The ESV puts it this way: “When the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.”

1 Corth 13:9 says.......
"Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away."

The actual Greek word for Perfect means “complete/mature”—the incomplete will be replaced by the complete and it is Teleios.

The two most common views are the completion of the Bible and the one you believe which is the glorification of believers in heaven.

Now there is an obviouse problem in the choice you have made. The literal Word of God says .....
"When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away”.

Do you see the problem? You believe the Perfect is the eternal state BUT.....Scripture says something is coming. The glorified believers GOES TO heaven.
Also..... the New Testament never uses "teleios" for the various eschatological events that the view you advocate does. Teleios never refers to the Second Coming, millennium, or the eternal state.
Source: Robert G. Gromacki, The Modern Tongues Movement (Philadelphia: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1977), 123.

Rodger , has your knowledge vanished ?

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

It is a practice in which people utter words or speech-like sounds that lack any comprehensible meaning. It is usually produced during states of intense religious experience, and some believers think it is a divine language or a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Speaking in tongues occurs mostly among Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians.
It must be noted that "speaking in tongues" is NOT a sign of salvation or that you have been filled with the Holy Spirit.

Then it's meaningless. Might be an outburst of epilepsy or something, didn't Jesus performed exorcism on a demon-possessed man who went nuts like that? The only benefits I can see is a practice for the introverts who're afraid of public speaking, who can't speak in coherent sentences without fillers or stutters. In Acts 2, the disciples were testifying the wonderful works of God, that is a sign of salvation, and that's what really matters.

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. ... we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” (Acts 2:4-12)

 

[Rodger]

Then it's meaningless. Might be an outburst of epilepsy or something, didn't Jesus performed exorcism on a demon-possessed man who went nuts like that? The only benefits I can see is a practice for the introverts who're afraid of public speaking, who can't speak in coherent sentences without fillers or stutters. In Acts 2, the disciples were testifying the wonderful works of God, that is a sign of salvation, and that's what really matters.

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. ... we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” (Acts 2:4-12)

YES...I agree that it is "meaningless".

Notice Acts 2:8..........
"And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language?"

The "sign gifts" which speaking tongues was, was given to the Eleven Apostles for one purpose......so that when they went to a foreign country to give out the gospel, the people in that country would understand the gospel and accept Christ.

If/when we read Acts 2:1-12 we will find that the tongues spoken by the apostles were languages spoken by apostles who did not know these languages, but which were understood by the Jews in Jerusalem. It was Jews speaking to Jews about the gospel.

Paul commanded in 1 Corinthians 14 that when tongues were spoken in the church, they must be translated by someone who knew the language and I have been in probably 100 Pentecostal churches and there is never anyone interpreting.

 

[Rodger]

Rodger , has your knowledge vanished ?

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

What kind of knowledge will pass away when the perfect comes?
Knowledge of what? Science? Physics? Biology? Theology? Knowledge of the mysteries of the spirit realm? What?

It is my humble opinion that Paul's point is that all believers have limited knowledge of Jesus Christ.
It is only when we die, or are Raptured and our bodies are glorified that we will have complete knowledge.

That being the case consider 1 Corinthians 13:11-12.......
"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[hawkman]

What kind of knowledge will pass away when the perfect comes?
Knowledge of what? Science? Physics? Biology? Theology? Knowledge of the mysteries of the spirit realm? What?

It is my humble opinion that Paul's point is that all believers have limited knowledge of Jesus Christ.
It is only when we die, or are Raptured and our bodies are glorified that we will have complete knowledge.

That being the case consider 1 Corinthians 13:11-12.......
"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

The point is , if your knowledge has not vanished the perfect has not come .

8Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

 

[Rodger]

Whether or not someone speaks in tongues is up to the Holy Spirit and the person letting the Holy Spirit give the utterance .

My dear friend, as a Pentecostal believer, I do not think that you are able to say anything different than what you posted and I respect you for that. I used to say the very same thing.
I too was a Pentecostal and I Just wanted you to know when I am coming from.

My I say to you, after doing much work on this, that if you are going to go with that explanation, you should know that throughout the book of Acts, thousands of people believe in Jesus and nothing is said about them speaking in tongues. Nothing, Zero!

There are only THREE (3) occasions in the Bible where speaking in tongues is an evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit. All are in the book of Acts where the apostles being baptized in the Holy Spirit and empowered by Him to proclaim the gospel. The apostles were enabled to speak in other languages (tongues-dialects) so they could share the truth with people in their own languages.

It was the Jewish Apostles speaking to Jewish believers about Jesus Christ.

Now I am sure that you will disagree but in all the times I witnessed tongues being spoken in a church service, it was a gibberish that no one understood and the gospel was no-where to be heard.

Nowhere in the New Testament is it taught that speaking in tongues is the evidence that a person has received the Holy Spirit. In fact, the New Testament teaches the opposite.

 

[Hidden In Him]

There are only THREE (3) occasions in the Bible where speaking in tongues is an evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit. All are in the book of Acts where the apostles being baptized in the Holy Spirit and empowered by Him to proclaim the gospel. The apostles were enabled to speak in other languages (tongues-dialects) so they could share the truth with people in their own languages.

I'm late to this discussion and likely won't stay long, but you would have to make Cornelius and his household apostles then correct? And Jewish, even though the scripture says they were Gentiles.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. (Acts 10)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Also..... the New Testament never uses "teleios" for the various eschatological events that the view you advocate does. Teleios never refers to the Second Coming, millennium, or the eternal state.
Source: Robert G. Gromacki, The Modern Tongues Movement (Philadelphia: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1977), 123.

But where does scripture use teleios in reference to the Bible or the word of God? And keep I mind that even should you show me something, it cannot refer to either one in 1 Corinthians 13, because the use there was in neuter as you yourself admitted, and I then showed you this (I will provide the link below but print out the section of the post here):

I can show you again the interpretation of what I think the perfect will of God is talking about in 1st Corinthians 13, but my point here would be that it cannot be pinned down to simply meaning "the completed word, the Bible" because it's in neuter gender. Your argument falls short because βίβλος (Bible) is a feminine noun not a neuter one, and λόγος (word) is masculine not neuter.

Post in thread 'A Cessationist Passage?'

Feb 8, 2025

So then, when describing things instead of people, and an "event" would be a thing, the gender will be neuter. Most of the time, the adjective has a named subject that it modifies. But in the
1 Corinthians 13:10 passage, only the context can determine because the adjective stands alone: “the perfect.” So the meaning of the adjective is determined by the context.
I believe that the “perfect” of 1 Cor. 13 is the completed word of God.

I believe that both the Greek and the context of 1 Corinthians 13:10 do not lend to the idea that Jesus or heaven are in mind. Instead, the gender neutral...

• Hidden In Him

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Any evidence over the last 100 years when a born again believer starts speaking in a known language foreign to them prior to the regeneration? For example, someone who has never spoken ancient Greek prior to being born again starts speaking it perfectly once regenerated?

Personally, I wish God gave me the ability to speak ancient Greek after being regenerated. That did not happen.

This question is not meant to downplay speaking in tongues. Every now and often I get the urge to break into a pattern of sound and utterances which was an unknown phenomenon to me prior to regeneration but then I cool down.

From 1 Peter 5:8 "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." Speaking in tongues is associated with a heightened excited psychological state and one can never be sure that opens the door to a Satanic attack.

Lastly, and most importantly speaking in tongues can be a social equilibrium too in a church setting where some try to appear regenerated by just babbling incoherently. I say this for the true indicator of the Holy Spirit in a faithful in Christ are the fruits produced and Paul has told us what they are.

Yes, Paul told what the spiritual gifts were in three churches--Rome (chapter 12), Ephesus (chapter 4), and Corinth (chapter 12-14). It's interesting that he mentioned tongues and de-emphasized it as less desirable to prophesying (preaching) and teaching and didn't include it in the other two lists. In other words, it's just one of the spiritual gifts he gives to some people but not all of us.

 

[Rodger]

But where does scripture use teleios in reference to the Bible or the word of God? And keep I mind that even should you show me something, it cannot refer to either one in 1 Corinthians 13, because the use there was in neuter as you yourself admitted, and I then showed you this (I will provide the link below but print out the section of the post here):

I can show you again the interpretation of what I think the perfect will of God is talking about in 1st Corinthians 13, but my point here would be that it cannot be pinned down to simply meaning "the completed word, the Bible" because it's in neuter gender. Your argument falls short because βίβλος (Bible) is a feminine noun not a neuter one, and λόγος (word) is masculine not neuter.

Post in thread 'A Cessationist Passage?'

Feb 8, 2025

So then, when describing things instead of people, and an "event" would be a thing, the gender will be neuter. Most of the time, the adjective has a named subject that it modifies. But in the
1 Corinthians 13:10 passage, only the context can determine because the adjective stands alone: “the perfect.” So the meaning of the adjective is determined by the context.
I believe that the “perfect” of 1 Cor. 13 is the completed word of God.

I believe that both the Greek and the context of 1 Corinthians 13:10 do not lend to the idea that Jesus or heaven are in mind. Instead, the gender neutral...

• Hidden In Him

But where does scripture use teleios in reference to the Bible or the word of God? And keep I mind that even should you show me something, it cannot refer to either one in 1 Corinthians 13, because the use there was in neuter as you yourself admitted, and I then showed you this (I will provide the link below but print out the section of the post here):
I can show you again the interpretation of what I think the perfect will of God is talking about in 1st Corinthians 13, but my point here would be that it cannot be pinned down to simply meaning "the completed word, the Bible" because it's in neuter gender. Your argument falls short because βίβλος (Bible) is a feminine noun not a neuter one, and λόγος (word) is masculine not neuter.

Post in thread 'A Cessationist Passage?'

Feb 8, 2025

So then, when describing things instead of people, and an "event" would be a thing, the gender will be neuter. Most of the time, the adjective has a named subject that it modifies. But in the
1 Corinthians 13:10 passage, only the context can determine because the adjective stands alone: “the perfect.” So the meaning of the adjective is determined by the context.
I believe that the “perfect” of 1 Cor. 13 is the completed word of God.

I believe that both the Greek and the context of 1 Corinthians 13:10 do not lend to the idea that Jesus or heaven are in mind. Instead, the gender neutral...

• Hidden In Him

My dear brother, there seems to be no theological consensus as to what Paul meant by 'perfect', in 1 Corinthians 13:10.

What we know for sure is that the word "teleios" (τέλειον) does not always mean 'perfect'. It can also mean 'complete/mature".

Source:...."hermeneutics.stackexchange.com"=
Greek language has a feature of creating substantives out of adjectives by simply adding an article in neutrum case and putting the adjective, accordingly, into a neutrum case: like ἀγαθός is “good”, but τὸ ἀγαθόν – the Good, or Goodness; or, λαμπρός is “bright”, “brilliant”, whereas τὸ λαμπρόν – “the brightness”, “the brilliance”. Similarly here, in 1 Cor. 13:10 τὸ τέλειον is a substantive from the τέλειος, “fulfilled”, “perfect”, and thus can be translated as “the perfect”, or simply, “the perfection”.
So, it denotes here an abstract noun, the abstract concept, rather than a person.

 

[Rodger]

I'm late to this discussion and likely won't stay long, but you would have to make Cornelius and his household apostles then correct? And Jewish, even though the scripture says they were Gentiles.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. (Acts 10)

I would take the event with Cornelius to be a pivotal point in the New Test. It is a point where In a vision, an angel instructed Cornelius to send for Simon Peter, who was residing in Joppa (Acts 10:3-6).

Also, God can do anything He wants to do and when God choose to do so, He opened the door of salvation to Gentiles.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Source:...."hermeneutics.stackexchange.com"=
Greek language has a feature of creating substantives out of adjectives by simply adding an article in neutrum case and putting the adjective, accordingly, into a neutrum case: like ἀγαθός is “good”, but τὸ ἀγαθόν – the Good, or Goodness; or, λαμπρός is “bright”, “brilliant”, whereas τὸ λαμπρόν – “the brightness”, “the brilliance”. Similarly here, in 1 Cor. 13:10 τὸ τέλειον is a substantive from the τέλειος, “fulfilled”, “perfect”, and thus can be translated as “the perfect”, or simply, “the perfection”.

I like the hermeneutics stackexchange. Been awhile since I was there, but that's a good site.

Now he's actually making a case FOR the definition of "perfect" here rather than against it, and I agree with him. I think it refers to the perfect will of God, and more specifically that we will know one another perfectly and face to face, rather than partially as we do on earth. But I do agree there is no consensus on the passage.

I would take the event with Cornelius to be a pivotal point in the New Test. It is a point where In a vision, an angel instructed Cornelius to send for Simon Peter, who was residing in Joppa (Acts 10:3-6).

Also, God can do anything He wants to do and when God choose to do so, He opened the door of salvation to Gentiles.

Amen!

 

[JLB]

Any evidence over the last 100 years when a born again believer starts speaking in a known language foreign to them prior to the regeneration? For example, someone who has never spoken ancient Greek prior to being born again starts speaking it perfectly once regenerated?

Personally, I wish God gave me the ability to speak ancient Greek after being regenerated. That did not happen.

This question is not meant to downplay speaking in tongues. Every now and often I get the urge to break into a pattern of sound and utterances which was an unknown phenomenon to me prior to regeneration but then I cool down.

From 1 Peter 5:8 "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." Speaking in tongues is associated with a heightened excited psychological state and one can never be sure that opens the door to a Satanic attack.

Lastly, and most importantly speaking in tongues can be a social equilibrium too in a church setting where some try to appear regenerated by just babbling incoherently. I say this for the true indicator of the Holy Spirit in a faithful in Christ are the fruits produced and Paul has told us what they are.

But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jude 20-21


Praying in your heavenly language is a blessing. One who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit has been given the grace, the God given ability to have a heavenly language (the tongues of men and angels) .

Speaking in tongues in a public setting for a Spirit led message of edification for a church body is a blessing, if their is an interpreter; someone who flows in the Holy Spirit gift of interpretation of tongues.

 

[Free]

But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Jude 20-21


Praying in your heavenly language is a blessing. One who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit has been given the grace, the God given ability to have a heavenly language (the tongues of men and angels) .

Speaking in tongues in a public setting for a Spirit led message of edification for a church body is a blessing, if their is an interpreter; someone who flows in the Holy Spirit gift of interpretation of tongues.

So, you understand correctly that interpretation of tongues is a gift that not all have, but not that speaking in tongues is a gift that not all have. Why is that?

1Co 12:7 To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,
1Co 12:9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1Co 12:10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Co 12:11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. (ESV)

Where does the Bible explicitly state that there are “tongues of angels” that believers can speak?

 

[JLB]

So, you understand correctly that interpretation of tongues is a gift that not all have,

Interpretation of a tongues message is a gift of the Spirit that anyone can flow in if they desire and pray for it.

Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1 Corinthians 14:13-14

Speaking a message in tongues in a group setting for their edification must be interpreted if the group is to be benefitted.

Praying in tongues for personal edification is different.

He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself… 1 Corinthians 14:4