Should women teach in the church?

[jaybo]

Jethro,

The Revised English Bible, using a dynamic equivalence philosophy of translation, translates 1 Tim 2:12 (REB) as, "I do not permit a woman to teach or, more specifically, to impose authority over a man while first needing to learn, rather she is not to cause a disturbance."

If a pastor is "imposing authority" and she is female, it seems to violate Scripture.

Oz

Perhaps it seemed to be appropriate about 2,000 years ago, but times have changed. The status and education of modern women is entirely different today than it was then.

Paul did not write law! He instructed the churches of his day in the way that was appropriate then. He did not create new laws!

 

[OzSpen]

Perhaps it seemed to be appropriate about 2,000 years ago, but times have changed. The status and education of modern women is entirely different today than it was then.

Paul did not write law! He instructed the churches of his day in the way that was appropriate then. He did not create new laws!

So, are the commandments Paul wrote to various Christian churches not relevant today? Or are they not relevant to jaybo's type of churches?

Oz

 

[Hopeful]

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 1Ti 2:12 KJV

Notice the “I”. This is personal to Paul, who reminded the assembled congregation of Jews and therefore law-keepers, of the need to remain silent in the synagogue according to Jewish Law. A reverent silence is right and proper in any place of worship, including our own churches. Do people gossip during our own church services? No, they do not, but, Paul was happy for people to speak in tongues provided there was an interpreter, so that all may understand. Perfectly reasonable and necessary. This is all about keeping order in the church.

In my own church, (Pentecostal) all are welcome to pray and praise the Lord as they feel led, women, included. Of course, they are. Not only are women permitted, they are very welcome to take part. It is inconceivable they would not be. The problem Paul had was the idle chatter from those women, who did not understand the Hebrew of the synagogue.

“The language of Jesus and his disciples is believed to be Aramaic. It is also likely that Jesus knew enough Koine Greek (the language of the marketplace) to converse with those not native to Judea, and it is reasonable to assume that Jesus was well-versed in Hebrew for religious purposes.”
.

Yes !!!
Paul with the Holy Ghost in Him speaking/writing what the Spirit compels him to speak/write.
Don't allow women to usurp authority over men!
It is written..."If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." (1 Cor 14:37)
Do you consider yourself to be "spiritual"?

 

[Hopeful]

Please show us the scripture that’s says women can not be apostles evangelists pastor or teachers.

Do you really think woman can do that without usurping authority over men?
I don't.

We know they can indeed be prophetesses.
Which means the burden of proof is on you to provide specific scripture that says women can not be apostles, evangelist’s, or teachers or pastors.

Do you really think woman can do that without usurping authority over men?
I don't.

 

[Hopeful]

However a women college teacher exercising her god given authority over a student who is male, then that is not “dominating”.

Works for me...if the student is female.

Sorry but 1 Timothy 2:12 does not mention anything about women not being school teachers.

We agree.
Just about women not usurping authority over men.
They are not to do such an ungodly thing.

 

[Hopeful]

Perhaps it seemed to be appropriate about 2,000 years ago, but times have changed. The status and education of modern women is entirely different today than it was then.

Paul did not write law! He instructed the churches of his day in the way that was appropriate then. He did not create new laws!

God didn't change, and His children didn't change either.
The fallen world is NOT to be our guide.

 

[Cooper]

i have no idea i can only go by what scripture has to say

1 Timothy 3:1 Context​

1This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

i did not write the scriptures the apostle paul did. once again if a woman is to preach or not preach her works will be tried by the fire. if you want to support women preaching that has no effect on me.. there is a saying solo scripture .

That is for bishops.
.

 

[Cooper]

In the beginning, God “made them male and female” (Matt. 19:4; cf. Gen. 1:27). Women are created in the image of God the same as men, and they will be judged the same as men.

Jesus looked upon women as equals. Men plotted against Jesus. Paul’s problems in the early church were caused by men, and Paul, a man who was no saint himself, fudged it.

We need to follow the Lord Jesus and not the writings of men, where they conflict with the example set by the Master.
.

 

[Cooper]

Yes !!!
Paul with the Holy Ghost in Him speaking/writing what the Spirit compels him to speak/write.
Don't allow women to usurp authority over men!
It is written..."If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." (1 Cor 14:37)
Do you consider yourself to be "spiritual"?

Off topic. We are not talking about the gifts of the Spirit.
Additionally:-
The New Testament makes it plain that Christian women, like men, have been given spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). Women, like men, are to use these gifts to minister to the body of Christ (1 Peter 4:10); their ministries are indispensable to the life and growth of the church (1 Corinthians 12:12-26). There are many examples in the New Testament of just such ministries on the part of gifted Christian women (see Chapter 5 in this volume). To be true to the New Testament, then, the contemporary church needs to honor those varied ministries of women and to encourage women to pursue them.

9. What Does It Mean Not to Teach or Have Authority Over Men (1 Timothy 2:11-15) | Bible.org

The New Testament makes it plain that Christian women, like men, have been given spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). Women, like men, are to use these gifts to minister to the body of Christ (1 Peter 4:10); their ministries are indispensable to the life and growth of the church (1...

bible.org

.

 

[Cooper]

So, are the commandments Paul wrote to various Christian churches not relevant today? Or are they not relevant to jaybo's type of churches?

Oz

Today's problems are not Paul's problems. We do not have the same interference from the Pharisees, scribes, and Sadducees that Paul experienced, I have no desire to be influenced by them, and why people on a Christian forum want to set them against the teaching of Jesus, I have no idea.
.

 

[jerry63935]

That is for bishops.

psst to be a bishop a overseer to pastors one must start out as a pastor. i been waiting for someone to post this.

 

[JLB]

Do you really think woman can do that without usurping authority over men?
I don't.

Each person who is called by Jesus Christ, is accountable to Him.

Whether man or woman.


If a woman is single and desires to serve God in purity and devotion then how is that usurping authority over a man?

 

[JLB]

Works for me...if the student is female.

We agree.
Just about women not usurping authority over men.
They are not to do such an ungodly thing.

This is where your denominational doctrine has developed a mindset in you that can’t see the forest for the trees.


Its the same mindset that says “a Christian can not be forgiven of a sin, because if he does sin, he was never a born again Christian to begin with”.



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If a pastor is "imposing authority" and she is female, it seems to violate Scripture.

I agree completely.
Women are simply not called to the office of pastor-teacher.
But I will make room for it if I have to, like in the days of Deborah in their 'beta male' days.
So, far, haven't had to, lol.
Once many years ago I decided to not attend a church I was visiting because the wife/husband pastoral team leading the church was her in charge and he following behind her like a whipped puppy. Wholly unfitting!

 

[JLB]

the wife/husband pastoral team leading the church was her in charge and he following behind her like a whipped puppy.

No bueno.

 

[jerry63935]

This is where your denominational doctrine has developed a mindset in you that can’t see the forest for the trees.

that not a fair statement your attacking his denominational teaching .. every one has denom teaching you used tongues in a couple your post. asking does your church's allow i forget the exact wording. tongues depends on what type Church one attends the Church i pastor does not use tongues. For one i dont know enough about it. not because i am spiritually stupid . i am more than aware of tongues in scriptures. i dont see lounges being used in the manner some do.

i said all that to point out what paul wrote if any MAN desire . the word women is not used in the offices of a pastor/ leader .
once again with women in the ministry i let God sort it out there are women and men both. that do not belong in the ministry.. God put man as the head the women have there place as a very vital important part of the Church. yes the can teach ADULT s.s class

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But Paul wrote something entirely different to the church at Galatia, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female—for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

Paul made it clear that the order he is enforcing is the same in all the churches (1 Corinthians 14:33).

 

[JLB]

that not a fair statement your attacking his denominational teaching ..

Im not “attacking” anything.

Im indicating some unbiblical “ideas“ that are in his mindset, because I have discussed extensively these things with him in the past.


For instance -


Do you believe if a born again Christian does sin, that he. or she can be forgiven their sin?


Or do you believe like Hopeful, that no born again Christian ever sins one time in his life, otherwise he was never really born again?


If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10


Do you believe that “we” and “us” and “our” refer to the Apostle John and Christian’s or to unbelievers; people who were never saved?




JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Obviously what Paul wrote applies differently in different situations. Making male superiority into some kind of doctrine based on a single verse has no validity. You do realize, don't you, that we are not living in the eastern Mediterranean society of 2,000 years ago, don't you?

The reason Paul prohibits female pastoral teaching authority is based in creation itself, not in the culture of his time or any other time in history.

1 Timothy 2:12-14
12I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man;c she is to remain quiet. 13For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. 14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression.

 

[JLB]

God put man as the head the women have there place as a very vital important part of the Church. yes the can teach ADULT s.s class

Amen.