Sin Free?

[glorydaz]

Everyone has said a lot of great things on this subject today.

But, from what I am gathering within the whole of the conversations, is this >>

The question has been possed, "Can we defeat sin" ?

This seems to be the stickler and what everyone seems to be trying to dance around.

not dancing around it, MM, answering it as best as i can with a resounding YES WE CAN! :yes

No, we can't...but Jesus did at the cross. :yes

 

[DarcyLu]

I'm merely stating what is common to man.

hmmm, this here is your problem, glory......

 

[Mysteryman]

Everyone has said a lot of great things on this subject today.

But, from what I am gathering within the whole of the conversations, is this >>

The question has been possed, "Can we defeat sin" ?

This seems to be the stickler and what everyone seems to be trying to dance around.

not dancing around it, MM, answering it as best as i can with a resounding YES WE CAN! :yes

Hi Darcy

I believe that most everyone here is dancing around this premise. On one hand , they (including yourself) are claiming that they do fall short, even though we are all saying that we can do all things through Christ who stengthenth me. If you can defeat sin, then why havn't you defeated it ?

You see, there is no place in the scriptures that I have found, that make such a claim that we can defeat sin. This then becomes carnal thinking instead of being spiritually minded. The Word tells us, that we all sin and fall short of the glory of God.

That means we can not defeat sin. We can however overcome the grip of sin. Sin always puts one in bondage. For instance, a lie always need another lie to support the first lie. Unless on confesses that they lied. The bondage of sin, is that we deny or refute what sin truly is.

Would it not be a sin to believe one can defeat sin, when the truth is that we can not ? We can grow spiritually and from this will sin less and less. That should be the goal. Do we not deny the very scriptures, when we are told something by the scriptures, then deny what the scriptures tell us ?

Every man sins and falls short of the glory of God. Yet, people are claiming that we can defeat sin. When the truth is , we can't. Only Christ has defeated sin, and death. Through Christ sin has no more hold on us, and there is a way in which we can be forgiven of the sins we do commit.

I would think that denying the scriptures is sin in and of itself. We should strive for the mastery, run to win the race, and receive rewards and even crowns for our faithfulness. To strive means that there are obsticales that we must strive over. One of those obsticales is our flesh.

I have been married for almost 39 years now. And my wife and I still struggle even within our marriage to be the perfect marriage that God wants of two Christians who are now one. It is not easy at times, while at other times the day living with one another is very easy and very blessed and very happy. But that does not mean that here are days we struggle within our flesh, when we should be walking in the Spirit.

Bless - IN Christ - MM

 

[glorydaz]

I'm merely stating what is common to man.

hmmm, this here is your problem, glory......

I'm so relieved you have my problem figured out, DarcyLu.
Where would I be without you? :biglaugh

 

[DarcyLu]

Hi Darcy

I believe that most everyone here is dancing around this premise. On one hand , they (including yourself) are claiming that they do fall short, even though we are all saying that we can do all things through Christ who stengthenth me. If you can defeat sin, then why havn't you defeated it ?

a couple of years ago, around the age of 20, i began to read what the Word really said about sin, perfection and holiness, then i began to believe what it said and walk in that by faith.
i know, with Christ in me, i can overcome sin - why am i not sinless yet? it takes practice, God still convicts me of sin that i did not know i had, through all of this, God is conforming me to the image of His Son, i do believe, if i remain in Christ, sin will be defeated in me. :yes

i don't have time right now to answer the rest of your post, but i will later. [/quote]

 

[watchman F]

No one walks through this world without getting their feet dirty. In fact we need Jesus to cleanse us from the filth of this world on a daily basis. Who never has a bad thought here?

A bad thought isn't sin it is temptation, it is that second or third thought that gets you in trouble. When your thought turns to intent that is sin.

I disagree. Us fallen men are given to bad thoughts in the first place. A bad thought, no matter how fleeting, is still sin.

I have no choice but to disagree, even Jesus was tempted, I am sure He had a bad thought or two, yet He was without sin.

 

[watchman F]

Luckily my "fallen man" is dead and crucified and I do not have to deal with him anymore. Its now Christ that lives in me.

Also "bad thoughts" are only sins if you accept them and agree with them. ALL temptations starts with a "bad thought" but that is why we are given Scripture . We have SWORD of the Spirit to fight off these "bad thoughts" and cast them down. We must take our thoughts captive and bring them into submission to Christ.

God is even able to protect our thoughts ! Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall guard your hearts and your thoughts in Christ Jesus.

We serve a powerful God. He only want us to believe Him and HE will do the rest.

AMEN!!!!

 

[watchman F]

I have already given you the scripture that tells us God can keep us from sinning. Why do you doubt God, and His word?

LOL...Because we have the whole Word of God.
If God were to "keep us from sinning" He'd need to take away our free will.

Not if we freely give our will to Him, laying everything at His feet giving our all to Christ including our will, freely.

 

[watchman F]

It is pride. There was only one perfect man....There will never be another, which is why He came and died on the cross. Walking in the boldness of the Spirit does not mean we can overcome and defeat sin. It means we give all the glory to the ONE who overcame and defeated sin for us.

It sounds spiritual but it is a lie what you are writing here.Its that powerless, sad little gospel you are preaching.

Php 4:13 I can do all things in him that strengtheneth me. that would include overcoming sin. What does "all things" exclude. Please read your Bible.

AMEN, again Bro Cornelious.

 

[watchman F]

Everyone has said a lot of great things on this subject today.

But, from what I am gathering within the whole of the conversations, is this >>

The question has been possed, "Can we defeat sin" ?

This seems to be the stickler and what everyone seems to be trying to dance around.

not dancing around it, MM, answering it as best as i can with a resounding YES WE CAN! :yes

No, we can't...but Jesus did at the cross. :yes

That's right Jesus defeated sin, now all we have to do is walk in that freedom.

 

[watchman F]

No, we are not dead to our sins. The Word tells us in Romans 6:11 to - "reckon" yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin"

You will only be totally dead to any sinfulness of the flesh, when you are truly dead.

We are suppose to walk in the Spirit, which is the way in which we can only please God.

We have Christ in us, and we are suppose to walk in the Spirit. But only Jesus Christ can and did accomplish walking only in the Spirit, for he knew no sin.

But we are still in the flesh, and we still know sin. And we pray and believe that we sin not. But if we say we have no sin, or can not sin, we deceive ourselves. And what will happen, is that one believes they can not sin, and when they do sin, be it a sin willfully or unwillingly . They will claim that they can not sin, thus the sin they commited, is not sin, based upon the false premise that they can not sin. And anyone who believes that they can not sin, not only deceives themselves, but they also deceive others as well. Because even a half truth is a lie, and many will tell half truths, without even considering that this is exactly what they are doing.

Plus - In Galatians 6:1 - "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness ; considering thyself, lest thou also be temped"

Galatians 6:7 & 8 - "Be not deceived ; God is not mocked : for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" --- "For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption ; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting" < This is not talking about work to get saved. It is talking about working out your salvation with trembling and fear. The word "reap" here is dealing with rewards.

Amen...The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life are ever before us.
Do we want what we don't have, do we think our righteous deeds make us holy, or do we think anything good comes from ourselves or we're better than others? We are still in the flesh...we still react soulishly when we pat ourselves on the back for avoiding the sin that so easily besets us. Man is ever striving and seldom emptying himself.

You said it very well..."You will only be totally dead to any sinfulness of the flesh, when you are truly dead."

No one should pat their self on the back for avoiding sin, it is only through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit that we ARE ABLE. As far as your believe that while in the flesh we cann overcome sin. The Bible says it this way.

2nd Cor 10
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


Let God be true and everyman a liar. God say we through His power can overcome, in this life.

 

[Danus]

No, we are not dead to our sins. The Word tells us in Romans 6:11 to - "reckon" yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin"

You will only be totally dead to any sinfulness of the flesh, when you are truly dead.

We are suppose to walk in the Spirit, which is the way in which we can only please God.

We have Christ in us, and we are suppose to walk in the Spirit. But only Jesus Christ can and did accomplish walking only in the Spirit, for he knew no sin.

But we are still in the flesh, and we still know sin. And we pray and believe that we sin not. But if we say we have no sin, or can not sin, we deceive ourselves. And what will happen, is that one believes they can not sin, and when they do sin, be it a sin willfully or unwillingly . They will claim that they can not sin, thus the sin they commited, is not sin, based upon the false premise that they can not sin. And anyone who believes that they can not sin, not only deceives themselves, but they also deceive others as well. Because even a half truth is a lie, and many will tell half truths, without even considering that this is exactly what they are doing.

Plus - In Galatians 6:1 - "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness ; considering thyself, lest thou also be temped"

Galatians 6:7 & 8 - "Be not deceived ; God is not mocked : for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" --- "For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption ; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting" < This is not talking about work to get saved. It is talking about working out your salvation with trembling and fear. The word "reap" here is dealing with rewards.

Amen...The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life are ever before us.
Do we want what we don't have, do we think our righteous deeds make us holy, or do we think anything good comes from ourselves or we're better than others? We are still in the flesh...we still react soulishly when we pat ourselves on the back for avoiding the sin that so easily besets us. Man is ever striving and seldom emptying himself.

You said it very well..."You will only be totally dead to any sinfulness of the flesh, when you are truly dead."

No one should pat their self on the back for avoiding sin, it is only through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit that we ARE ABLE. As far as your believe that while in the flesh we cann overcome sin. The Bible says it this way.

2nd Cor 10
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


Let God be true and everyman a liar. God say we through His power can overcome, in this life.

:amen

 

[DarcyLu]

I'm merely stating what is common to man.

hmmm, this here is your problem, glory......

I'm so relieved you have my problem figured out, DarcyLu.
Where would I be without you? :biglaugh

lol that's right glory, just stick with me and we'll have you straightened out in no time.

 

[DarcyLu]

You see, there is no place in the scriptures that I have found, that make such a claim that we can defeat sin. This then becomes carnal thinking instead of being spiritually minded. The Word tells us, that we all sin and fall short of the glory of God.
That means we can not defeat sin. We can however overcome the grip of sin. Sin always puts one in bondage. For instance, a lie always need another lie to support the first lie. Unless on confesses that they lied. The bondage of sin, is that we deny or refute what sin truly is..

we are no longer in bondage to sin, there is plenty of scripture that shows the opposite of what you are saying, yes we have all fallen short of the glory of God, that is why Jesus came and sacrificied Himself for us, He came to set us free, He said "It is finished", we are no longer under the curse of sin - or any curse. those in Christ are now free.

Would it not be a sin to believe one can defeat sin, when the truth is that we can not ? We can grow spiritually and from this will sin less and less. That should be the goal. Do we not deny the very scriptures, when we are told something by the scriptures, then deny what the scriptures tell us ?

yet you are denying every scripture that tells us to sin no more, to be perfect and holy like our Father is, to conform to His image, that's alot of scripture to ignore, yet the scripture others have offered - such as John telling us if we say we do not sin, then we are a liar - no one has said they have never sinned.
you are denying God can keep us from sin, you are denying His power.

I would think that denying the scriptures is sin in and of itself. We should strive for the mastery, run to win the race, and receive rewards and even crowns for our faithfulness. To strive means that there are obsticales that we must strive over. One of those obsticales is our flesh.

i agree with all of this and that obstacle in the flesh, with Christ, we can overcome.

 

[glorydaz]

So, some believe they can be free from sin...that they can attain perfection while still living in the flesh. They take scriptures that tell us to be perfect and assume that means we can be perfect. We have Christ in us...He is perfect, therefore we should be able to be perfect, too. That's an interesting concept, but it's presumptuous. Jesus defeated sin and death on the cross. Does that mean we can not experience death, ourselves? If we have enough faith, can our body live forever as well as be sin free?We can't pick and choose. It puts me in mind of those who claim if we aren't healed it's because we have a lack of faith. That's presumptuous, too. That takes the initiative away from God...high-mindedness.

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

The Word tells us we have been raised and are seated with Christ in heavenly places, and we are...spiritually.

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Are we dead to sin....of course...spiriturally.
All things are under his feet..do we see that?

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Do we see perfection in any living believer?
Yet we presume we can attain when no other person living has attained?
When He shall appear, we can walk by sight. Until then, we walk by faith.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Where is our safety net when we presume such from the Word of God?
This is why we have a body ministry...to consider the whole word of God with a multitude of counsellors.

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

I'm put in mind of Peter when he, with great zeal, declared he would never dream of denying Jesus.
That was presumptuous sin on Peter's part. We know he did deny...three times. Instead of claiming, in our high-mindedness, that we can be perfect, we should be praying the Lord will keep us from temptation. The Word does not tell us we will be perfect, but that Christ is perfect. It's His righteousness, not our own. It never has been, and it never will be about us. As we yield to Him, His righteousness shows forth with the fruit of the Spirit. Are we perfect vessels? Not yet. If we claim the vessels will be perfect because we're filled with the Holy Spirit, we're presumptuous.
We are but earthen vessels...

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Cornelius]

So, some believe they can be free from sin...that they can attain perfection while still living in the flesh. They take scriptures that tell us to be perfect and assume that means we can be perfect. We have Christ in us...He is perfect, therefore we should be able to be perfect, too. That's an interesting concept, but it's presumptuous.

No its not presumptuous its called faith.

Jesus defeated sin and death on the cross. Does that mean we can not experience death, ourselves? If we have enough faith, can our body live forever as well as be sin free?

Of course. Why do you think that the Scriptures say: 1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. and there are those who will not die through the tribulation and will be changed in a twinkling of an eye in their physical bodies. Some scriptures will come to a fulfillment in these days , but only for those who believe that they are true. That is why so many Christians die during the tribulation. They refused to have faith in the Word as it was written.

We can't pick and choose.

Correct, we have to believe all of it. We have to eat the whole Lamb to be saved.

It puts me in mind of those who claim if we aren't healed it's because we have a lack of faith.
That's presumptuous, too.

I presume that you are speaking of Jesus here .Mat 17:16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.Mat 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast it out?
Mat 17:20 And he saith unto them, Because of your little faith: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

That takes the initiative away from God...high-mindedness.

Jesus was God's initiative. In Jesus we see the will of God refelcted: Mat 8:16 And when even was come, they brought unto him many possessed with demons: and he cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all that were sick:

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

That is correct, we can never be more that Jesus.In Him is the fullness of God. In HIM we move and live and have our being. Not in ourselves.

The Word tells us we have been raised and are seated with Christ in heavenly places, and we are...spiritually.

Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Are we dead to sin....of course...spiriturally.
All things are under his feet..do we see that?

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

True, but that does not mean that our WORDS must contradict the Bible because some of these verses are still waiting to be manifested fully. We do not need to SEE it with our physical eyes to believe it.Joh 20:29 ....blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Do we see perfection in any living believer?

We see perfection by faith and then God wants us to SAY it. We have to AGREE with Him before He will make it so in manifestation. Psa 107:2 Let the redeemed of Jehovah say so.

Yet we presume we can attain when no other person living has attained?

Many have attained by faith. To them it will be a reality.Mat 9:29.... According to your faith be it done unto you.

When He shall appear, we can walk by sight. Until then, we walk by faith.

Amen, so let your mouth agree with your faith. A double minded man shall receive nothing.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Where is our safety net when we presume such from the Word of God?
This is why we have a body ministry...to consider the whole word of God with a multitude of counsellors.

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

That is correct. Listen to those who are in the Word and give counsel that is in line with the Word of God.

I'm put in mind of Peter when he, with great zeal, declared he would never dream of denying Jesus.
That was presumptuous sin on Peter's part. We know he did deny...three times. Instead of claiming, in our high-mindedness, that we can be perfect, we should be praying the Lord will keep us from temptation.

True, Peter was believing in himself and in his own strength. Jesus wanted Peter to learn to trust in Him. He should have, because he learned that lesson on the water when he sank. But Christians are not presumptuous when the believe the Word of God. That is called faith, because it places the power into the hands of God and not your own.

The Word does not tell us we will be perfect, but that Christ is perfect.

Mat 5:48 Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Why do you teach on an international forum when you do not read your Bible ?)

It's His righteousness, not our own. It never has been, and it never will be about us. As we yield to Him, His righteousness shows forth with the fruit of the Spirit. Are we perfect vessels? Not yet. If we claim the vessels will be perfect because we're filled with the Holy Spirit, we're presumptuous.
We are but earthen vessels...

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

[/quote]
Your verses do not prove what you are wanting to say. You are making a quilt and they do not fit. Its called spiritual jargon, very similar to what politicians do when they speak. You think they are saying something, but they are just spinning words. All that you are really saying is that you are not prepared to stick your head out in faith and agree with the Word.

I love people, but I cannot bear it when somebody abuses the Word of God to fit their doctrine. !

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi all

I thought I would make this post to all who have participated within this thread.

This is what is happening. In the OP Watchman put a thought in all of your heads. That thought is the word "defeated". Now this word is stuck in your minds, to the point that you feel now that you can defeat sin. What you need to do, is cast this word "defeat" as far as the east is from the west ! !

You are defending a false premise !

In the Word of God, God tells us that he will not allow us to be tempted (by the adversary) beyond what we are capable to bear. In that, he gives us a way to escape.

We do not, nor can we "defeat" sin ! But we can escape sin. Because God gives us a way in which to escape it.

You all know of the verse which says - "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me" < Does this mean that you can defeat death ? (As glorydaz has asked you ?) No, you can not defeat death and live forever in your corruptible bodies. And why would you ? Why do you want to live forever in your corruptible bodies ? Does the phrase - "I can do all things through Christ which stengtheneth me" mean that now I can jump so high, that if I want too, I can jump over the moon ? The answer is no, you can't ! And you can not cast a mountain into the sea , unless God tells you that it is possible, because the power of God needs to be behind anything that you claim. It is a false claim, and God is not behind this false theory that sin can be defeated by you, just because you are a christian !

Neither can you defeat sin ! You can escape sin.

What we are all doing is trying to agree with one another, and we can not seem to find common ground by which we can all agree. The reason for this, is because of this word "defeat" , and the way it was put into the context of how it was used by the OP. Saying that we can "defeat sin".

How do you think the serpent deceived the woman in the garden ? He put a thought in her head, and she dwelled upon that thought. The OP put a thought in your heads, and you dwelled upon this word "defeated", so you considered it, then came to a conclusion, that you can do all things through Christ, so you allowed your minds to be trick (deceived) !

While we are in these flesh bodies , our minds are going to be tempted to sin. Our faith is suppose to be focused upon the escape route. Not on defeating sin, but escaping it. When we escape sin, we do so by walking in the Spirit. When we are walking in the Spirit, we will recognize the escape route that God has laid out for us. < So we are not defeating sin, we are escaping from sinning.

Bless - IN Christ - MM

 

[Danus]

Hi all

I thought I would make this post to all who have participated within this thread.

This is what is happening. In the OP Watchman put a thought in all of your heads. That thought is the word "defeated". Now this word is stuck in your minds, to the point that you feel now that you can defeat sin. What you need to do, is cast this word "defeat" as far as the east is from the west ! !

You are defending a false premise !

In the Word of God, God tells us that he will not allow us to be tempted (by the adversary) beyond what we are capable to bear. In that, he gives us a way to escape.

We do not, nor can we "defeat" sin ! But we can escape sin. Because God gives us a way in which to escape it.

You all know of the verse which says - "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me" < Does this mean that you can defeat death ? (As glorydaz has asked you ?) No, you can not defeat death and live forever in your corruptible bodies. And why would you ? Why do you want to live forever in your corruptible bodies ? Does the phrase - "I can do all things through Christ which stengtheneth me" mean that now I can jump so high, that if I want too, I can jump over the moon ? The answer is no, you can't ! And you can not cast a mountain into the sea , unless God tells you that it is possible, because the power of God needs to be behind anything that you claim. It is a false claim, and God is not behind this false theory that sin can be defeated by you, just because you are a christian !

Neither can you defeat sin ! You can escape sin.

What we are all doing is trying to agree with one another, and we can not seem to find common ground by which we can all agree. The reason for this, is because of this word "defeat" , and the way it was put into the context of how it was used by the OP. Saying that we can "defeat sin".

How do you think the serpent deceived the woman in the garden ? He put a thought in her head, and she dwelled upon that thought. The OP put a thought in your heads, and you dwelled upon this word "defeated", so you considered it, then came to a conclusion, that you can do all things through Christ, so you allowed your minds to be trick (deceived) !

While we are in these flesh bodies , our minds are going to be tempted to sin. Our faith is suppose to be focused upon the escape route. Not on defeating sin, but escaping it. When we escape sin, we do so by walking in the Spirit. When we are walking in the Spirit, we will recognize the escape route that God has laid out for us. < So we are not defeating sin, we are escaping from sinning.

Bless - IN Christ - MM

Thanks for that insight Mysteryman. Lots of great post on this thread, but I about had to print them all, stick them to the wall; get out my calculator, slide rule and draw a john Madden play to figure out what everyone was saying. I can certainly get behind what you are saying.

I think what lights a lot of fire on this topic is the self-righteousness and pride (sinful in and of it self) that that can accompany the statements of many well meaning Christians on the subject of sin and "overcoming" it in our lives.

I don't know about anyone else here, but I am a Christian because I am a sinner. If I have to obtain perfection to be a Christian then I might as well hang it up right now.

The fact that I am a sinner keeps my relationship with Christ alive daily. Do I chose to be better? sure, I follow Christ. Will I fall again on this journey? YES, but again I follow Christ. I can't tell you how many times Christ has put out his hand for me to grab on to lest I fall further or need that help up.

I do not willfully choose sin, but I live in sin and unless I'm misunderstanding Gods word and promises in my life my perfection is yet to come; it's way up ahead; always just over the next ridge. That is my hope, but until then I will walk with my lord and savior on my journey home to ultimate perfection and true freedom from sin. It's a narrow path. It has pits and loose rocks. It's not always well light and there are dangers lurking and waiting to pounce on me, but my guide will keep me safe.

 

[Godfrey]

I don't know about anyone else here, but I am a Christian because I am a sinner. If I have to obtain perfection to be a Christian then I might as well hang it up right now.

The fact that I am a sinner keeps my relationship with Christ alive daily.

Danus, one question: when Paul writes to a church, does he address his letter to sinners or saints?

 

[DarcyLu]

In the Word of God, God tells us that he will not allow us to be tempted (by the adversary) beyond what we are capable to bear. In that, he gives us a way to escape[/b

We do not, nor can we "defeat" sin ! But we can escape sin. Because God gives us a way in which to escape it.

Imo, you are making a play on words, in an earlier post, Cornelius said this exact same thing, yet, even when the Word tells us this, people are still in unbelief. MM, obviously you know what the Word says about this, but will you continue to say you will always be a sinner?
this is what we have been defending all along.

You all know of the verse which says - "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me" < Does this mean that you can defeat death ? (As glorydaz has asked you ?) No, you can not defeat death and live forever in your corruptible bodies. And why would you ? Why do you want to live forever in your corruptible bodies ? !

why would you want to continue to sin when, as you have pointed out, God gives us an escape out of it.
He provides a door in which to flee from temptation and He is faithful and does not give us more than we can bare.
God sent His son, Jesus, perhaps you could say, unlocked the escape door to every temptation so that He tasted every temptation known to man.
The daily temptations we are faced with, there is an escape and we can either chose to flee through the door OR we can sin.
Do you see how it is Christ in us that helps us to flee from temptation? Are you saying He only does it half the time or sometimes? Christ is thorough, He does it ALL THE TIME!