Sinning Ignorantly

[Stan1953]

Hi Stan, Let me explain.
I asked you in post #18 to show me verses that say we can lose our salvation.
You responded by using verses in post #26.
I grouped all these things together and called them a standard (a level of attainment).
Now if you could reread what I said in post #28, I would hope you can understand where I am coming from.

Yes but I addressed other points you made, not the questions about losing salvation, because IMO it's a red herring. Nobody was talking about losing salvation. The issue is apostasy, which is not the same thing. I qualified both lists with a statement and did NOT say they supported losing salvation.
FYI, this is not my first time dealing with this issue or OSAS, but I do like to stick to whatever issue a thread is dealing with.

 

[Stan1953]

Generally speaking, I have learned on this forum that when someone makes a claim that does not seem to be backed up in the Bible, using another person's blog on the subject doesn't carry much weight.

I guess it depends on the actual level of credible corroboration. In this case there is not overt statement one way or the other so we must do a little detective work. In any event it carries weight with me IF it is well done, which this book is.

 

[Stan1953]

imo, this scripture clearly separates Luke from those 'of the circumcision.'
The author's whole theory begins with Luke being a Jew and that he was trained in the temple rights and laws.
imo, which I feel is clear from scripture, no Jew was going to listen to a gentile about Torah, prophecies, and to admonish them about returning to the temple sacrifices.
I would also point out the there are times when Paul is speaking about an ethnic Jew, he refers to him as his 'kinsman'.

Well IMO, based on the book, I disagree, but feel free to read the book and see if you feel the same afterwards.
You can read the following to see if you still think Luke was NOT a Jew based on what you quote from Colossians.

http://www.levitt.com/essays/luke

 

[Eugene]

Grace was manifest in the very sacrifices Israel offered representing Christ. They didn’t keep the law either; it merely showed them to be lacking as a ministration of death. Abraham believed God!!!!!!!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Saved how if he was? The Jesus on the cross thing was sort of important.



I have to agree Rollo. I certainly learn from other Believers. I don't need to quote someone elses work though If I don't have a revelation of what their saying, and I certainly have enough revelation to express myself, else I stay out of it. What someone else wrote carries ZERO weight with me, I want to know what YOU believe, not someone else. Otherwise we would just have the blogger join the forums and talk with them instead and Ignore you.



Not a fan of one just losing their salvation. However a baby Christian and Mature Christian are both Christians.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(Heb 10:26-29)

Read over this Again Rollo.
If we Sin Willfully. After we know the truth. There is no more sacrifice for sin....................

Going back to Judaism because of the persecution was a issue in Hebrews. Once you know the truth, and go back to serving another god, then your no longer covered. There is no other god that can help.

It does not say a person can't repent, just says that in this state, there is no more sacrifices for sin, for that person.

Here is why.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
(1Jn 2:1)

After knowing the truth, and for whatever reason going back to Allah, bubba, Hooda or whoever. There is nothing there that covers you anymore.

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
(1Jn 5:16)

John said there is "A" sin unto death. John Goes on to warn.

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
(1Jn 5:21)

Now you might say a real Believer would never do such a thing. We would have to be in their shoes, I have never stood by and watched my children tortured either, crying for me to help and I can do nothing, but confess Allah is my God. It's easy to sit back and say things, it's another experiencing what others have.

Be blessed.

Unfortunately, these OSAS debates always lead nowhere.
I'm tired of them.
I have to drop out of this.

 

[Brother Mike]

Thanks, nice to be here.
Yes I have read it hundreds of times and IMO Luke is pointing out that there are people that do shrink back, but he and his followers are not of those kind. I see no reason for warnings about not shrinking back if apostasy cannot be a real danger.
OK, here's a simple listing of the things we as Children of God Can Do: (Even reworded their title)
1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13

Reading it a 100 times, and you can't form you own conclusions? Your like some Google Christian index to Work others have done.
Let's get this right, you post someone else work, give the link and credit.
http://www.bible.ca/cal-P-refutation.htm

View attachment 6510

http://www.bible.ca/
That YOUR WEB Site or you the author?

Wow, then a link here.
http://www.covenantoflove.net/book-reviews/lukan-authorship-of-hebrews-in-review/
and.......
http://www.levitt.com/essays/luke

I am glad you joined, but surly you did not Join to master your copy and paste skills?

Here's the thing, if you don't have revelation of something, STAY OUT OF IT!!!!.

OR

Post what you do know.

Pretending to know things by just googling up the topic and finding something that suites you is not only prideful. It's also deception into making others think you know far more than you do. You can post someone's work, but you don't even have the revelation they have. How can you even continue to discuses it. Google more information?

We are interested in what you know and can share from YOUR heart. It don't have to be 100% spot on. It's a community. If you have to study up on something, it's not good enough. That is not revealed knowledge to you from the Holy Spirit. That is someone else revealed knowledge.
At least give the link and credit to where it come from.

I am interested in talking with you. Not how awesome you are with Google and using the copy and paste function.

This is what Rollo was talking about.

Unfortunately, these OSAS debates always lead nowhere.
I'm tired of them.
I have to drop out of this.

It's hard to admit defeat, since no matter how well you explain it to me, You know I just won't get it.

Till another Thread Rollo................ Be blessed Brother.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Reading it a 100 times, and you can't form you own conclusions? Your like some Google Christian index to Work others have done.
Let's get this right, you post someone else work, give the link and credit.
http://www.bible.ca/cal-P-refutation.htm

View attachment 6510

http://www.bible.ca/
That YOUR WEB Site or you the author?

Wow, then a link here.
http://www.covenantoflove.net/book-reviews/lukan-authorship-of-hebrews-in-review/
and.......
http://www.levitt.com/essays/luke

I am glad you joined, but surly you did not Join to master your copy and paste skills?

Here's the thing, if you don't have revelation of something, STAY OUT OF IT!!!!.

OR

Post what you do know.

Pretending to know things by just googling up the topic and finding something that suites you is not only prideful. It's also deception into making others think you know far more than you do. You can post someone's work, but you don't even have the revelation they have. How can you even continue to discuses it. Google more information?

We are interested in what you know and can share from YOUR heart. It don't have to be 100% spot on. It's a community. If you have to study up on something, it's not good enough. That is not revealed knowledge to you from the Holy Spirit. That is someone else revealed knowledge.
At least give the link and credit to where it come from.

I am interested in talking with you. Not how awesome you are with Google and using the copy and paste function.

This is what Rollo was talking about.



It's hard to admit defeat, since no matter how well you explain it to me, You know I just won't get it.

Till another Thread Rollo................ Be blessed Brother.

Lol, you funny Mike.

 

[Stan1953]

Reading it a 100 times, and you can't form you own conclusions?

They are my conclusions Mike and they are NOT copied from Bible.ca, but from another forum I posted on. Do you really think everyone on here has original thought? Do you never use Google?

I am glad you joined, but surly you did not Join to master your copy and paste skills?

No, I know how to copy and paste well enough. I've been using computers since 1994. Do you not know how to copy & paste?

Here's the thing, if you don't have revelation of something, STAY OUT OF IT!!!!.

The last person to have Revelation was John of Patmos so are you saying nobody should post on here?
BTW once you have the title moderator you can comment on my posting style but until then I'd say mind your OWN Ps and Qs.

Pretending to know things by just googling up the topic and finding something that suites you is not only prideful. It's also deception into making others think you know far more than you do. You can post someone's work, but you don't even have the revelation they have. How can you even continue to discuses it. Google more information?

I don't pretend to know, I know, but if I choose to paste something I have already posted somewhere else, that's my affair not yours. Apparently you have nothing to contribute but criticism? Maybe you should learn a thing or two from Google?

We are interested in what you know and can share from YOUR heart. It don't have to be 100% spot on. It's a community. If you have to study up on something, it's not good enough. That is not revealed knowledge to you from the Holy Spirit. That is someone else revealed knowledge. At least give the link and credit to where it come from.

Are you speaking for everyone on this thread or the whole site Mike? Should I now point out everything you copy and paste, including scriptures?

I am interested in talking with you. Not how awesome you are with Google and using the copy and paste function.

This post contradicts your words here Mike. Apparently all you're interested in is being right and pointing out what you feel is wrong.

It's hard to admit defeat, since no matter how well you explain it to me, You know I just won't get it.

I'll keep that in mind for future reference.

 

[Brother Mike]

They are my conclusions Mike and they are NOT copied from Bible.ca, but from another forum I posted on. Do you really think everyone on here has original thought? Do you never use Google?

The forum you posted on Came from Bible/ca exactly as you posted. They are not your conclusions, they are someone else conclusions.

No, I know how to copy and paste well enough. I've been using computers since 1994. Do you not know how to copy & paste?

yep, I copy and paste the scripture out of e-sword all the time. My first computer was in 1980. My C64.

The last person to have Revelation was John of Patmos so are you saying nobody should post on here?
BTW once you have the title moderator you can comment on my posting style but until then I'd say mind your OWN Ps and Qs.

1Jn_2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

Right, John wrote revelation. Wow. Instead of the attitude though, I am trying to help you.

I don't pretend to know, I know, but if I choose to paste something I have already posted somewhere else, that's my affair not yours. Apparently you have nothing to contribute but criticism? Maybe you should learn a thing or two from Google?

NO, you do pretend to know. I pasted what you posted from Bible.ca Website. They are the authors of what you posted. You gave zero credit. You did not do that study. You just find things that "Seem" right to you and go with that. If I questioned you on each scripture used, then How would you fare. Would you be able to answer those questions without google?

This post contradicts your words here Mike. Apparently all you're interested in is being right and pointing out what you feel is wrong.

it's not about me being right. When you post that link, Post a whole study and not give Credit (Which is in the TOS here) then post that link. I want to hear what you know. As Rollo said, we don't care to know what someone else knows.

I am pointing something out to you, because Deborah and others have questioned some of your post, but it does not seem you have the full revelation to answer. That tells me your basing your answers on what someone else posted.

It was this inability to come back with a sure answer, when you were so sure before that made me examine what was going on.
( I read everything)
I am trying to help. If you don't want it, that is fine also.

Anyway, you are suppose to quote the source here. If you did not study out and come up with the information yourself, but copied and pasted it from somewhere else, then there is a good chance the Work belongs to someone else.

 

[Stan1953]

The forum you posted on Came from Bible/ca exactly as you posted. They are not your conclusions, they are someone else conclusions.

Sadly you didn't get my point, but to be clear, they are indeed my conclusions, which is why I posted them. Instead of dealing with the truth they contain you focus on an issue that is totally irrelevant. I also now conclude that this is your MO throughout this forum, which means apparently you have no rebuttal to the point made but simply want to vilify those that make good solid arguments, regardless of where the points come from. Do you disagree with what Bible.ca contains?

yep, I copy and paste the scripture out of e-sword all the time. My first computer was in 1980. My C64.

How old are you Mike? Do you have a memory problem? The C64 was manufactured in 1982 so how exactly could you have had one 2 years before it was in the market? The C64 was a gaming console for PONG and other like software. I do note however that you were saved in 1997? Congrats and PTL. I was saved in 1971 and as such have been studying the Bible much longer than you have obviously. So is it knowledge you want or just to make others look bad because they don't learn the way you did/do?

1Jn_2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

1 John 2:20 is properly rendered as; "But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth."
They didn't know ALL things, they knew all the truth about Jesus and His ministry.

Right, John wrote revelation. Wow. Instead of the attitude though, I am trying to help you.

Really, you call deriding someone helping them? That kind of so-called help I don't need. Your use of revelation is wrong because there are no more revelations when it comes to God.

NO, you do pretend to know. I pasted what you posted from Bible.ca Website. They are the authors of what you posted. You gave zero credit. You did not do that study. You just find things that "Seem" right to you and go with that. If I questioned you on each scripture used, then How would you fare. Would you be able to answer those questions without google?

The truth is the truth, not only when it comes from YOU Mike. Do you disagree with what you found on Bible.ca? Their site does not require that you cite them and their articles are not attributed to any one person. It is a Bible Study site. It is also useful to address false teachings of others because the direct answers are there for ALL to see. I see nowhere on this site that citations are needed but I have now asked a moderator to look into this thread and you comments, to restore some semblance of order. It is obvious you would not be able to do what you are attempting to do here without Google, so maybe you should take the log out of your own eye?
I have NO problem using all tools I can find online.

it's not about me being right. When you post that link, Post a whole study and not give Credit (Which is in the TOS here) then post that link. I want to hear what you know. As Rollo said, we don't care to know what someone else knows.

No, apparently it's about you disparaging others when you have no answers or rebuttal. You deflect to a straw man issue. The report button is there for a reason, so if you feel or anyone felt what I posted was wrong, then you/they should have reported it, and let the moderators do what they are here to do, because YOU my friend, are NOT good at moderating.

I am pointing something out to you, because Deborah and others have questioned some of your post, but it does not seem you have the full revelation to answer. That tells me your basing your answers on what someone else posted.

So you're telling me I'm the subject of a gossip ring on this site and you're their leader?

It was this inability to come back with a sure answer, when you were so sure before that made me examine what was going on.
( I read everything) I am trying to help. If you don't want it, that is fine also.

Now you're just being nebulous and equivocal Mike. What post? I surely do NOT want your kind of help Mike. Derision and condescension, are NOT Christ like in any way, shape , or form.

Anyway, you are suppose to quote the source here. If you did not study out and come up with the information yourself, but copied and pasted it from somewhere else, then there is a good chance the Work belongs to someone else.

and I have now asked a moderator about your assertion here. Your assumption that I have not studied or sourced out the info I do post is of course a fallacious assertion. Would you accept any thing that is copied and pasted with citation or would you just resort to what you did and discount it as non-authoritative? I have addressed these kind of issues for years and quite frankly have grown tired of self righteous people who resort to this kind of deflection as their MO.
The truth of the Bible does NOT exist in one place, it is world wide.

 

[Brother Mike]

How old are you Mike? Do you have a memory problem? The C64 was manufactured in 1982 so how exactly could you have had one 2 years before it was in the market?I was saved in 1971 and as such have been studying the Bible much longer than you have obviously. So is it knowledge you want or just to make others look bad because they don't learn the way you did/do?

Absolutely correct on that, the 80's were a while back. I had the vic something (Parents computer) and the Atari 2600. Congrats on getting saved in 1971. I wish I would have much sooner than I did.

and I have now asked a moderator about your assertion here. Your assumption that I have not studied or sourced out the info I do post is of course a fallacious assertion.

I am not trying to hurt you feelings, I have never told on anyone though, I can't even remember when I have, I am sure when I was young I might have. I don't talk to police at all either.

1 John 2:20 is properly rendered as; "But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth."
They didn't know ALL things, they knew all the truth about Jesus and His ministry.

Well, clear we don't Know all things. My point is, the Holy Spirit does give us revelation and shows us things to come.

No, apparently it's about you disparaging others when you have no answers or rebuttal. You deflect to a straw man issue. The report button is there for a reason, so if you feel or anyone felt what I posted was wrong, then you/they should have reported it, and let the moderators do what they are here to do, because YOU my friend, are NOT good at moderating.

Really, you call deriding someone helping them? That kind of so-called help I don't need. Your use of revelation is wrong because there are no more revelations when it comes to God.

So, your understanding of revelation is not revealed knowledge to you, but what you can learn from what has already been revealed. Is that correct?

And again, I have never since I joined 2008 hit the report button. Nobody has every upset me here, nor have I ever been offended at anyone here. I also don't report people anyway.

So you're telling me I'm the subject of a gossip ring on this site and you're their leader?

I said "MY" observations. I lead nobody here in anything.

The truth is the truth, not only when it comes from YOU Mike. Do you disagree with what you found on Bible.ca? Their site does not require that you cite them and their articles are not attributed to any one person. It is a Bible Study site. It is also useful to address false teachings of others because the direct answers are there for ALL to see. I see nowhere on this site that citations are needed but I have now asked a moderator to look into this thread and you comments, to restore some semblance of order. It is obvious you would not be able to do what you are attempting to do here without Google, so maybe you should take the log out of your own eye?
I have NO problem using all tools I can find online.

The site does not. Your correct, this site does.
2.6
Please keep posts down to a respectable length and provide source and/or links for your info. We want to respect copyrighted material. Be sure at minimum to cite your source and keep all posts in compliance with Fair Use copyright law. Plus, you stand a better chance of getting your post read if it contains a link with an excerpt from source that's relative to your point.

All my point was Stan, if I am responding to you, I wan't it to be something you studied out. I don't have any reason to comment to you posting something someone else did. I am interested in what you believe.

I might have been a bit butt like here, because I just want to hear what Stan has learned, not link after link of what someone else learned, and not a page of things you did not bother quoting the source on. That is all I asked. If it's to much, fine, I understand.

As for Bible.ca, I have no opinion.

I was certainly not trying to upset you. I just want to hear what God has shown you.

Be blessed Stan.

 

[reba]

closed for some clean up...