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Some of the serious NT warnings to the churches

jasoncran said:
im far from a legalist, but I do believe that one can walk away from god knowingly. romans one implies the idea that those that do those things did so with the idea that they KNEW GOD WAS REAL.
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Jason, In my opinion I think there's a big difference between knowing God is real and being born again and indwelled by the Holy Spirit.
 
sorry I speak from exercience. I went into a gay relationship knowing that It was God himself telling me that it was wrong. we do want that sin that bad.
 
iLOVE said:
Luke 12:42-46

English Standard Version (ESV)


42 And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? 43 Blessed is that servant[a] whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 45 But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful.
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I really like this scripture, those who God has called to tend the flock are called to "feed my sheep" not beat my sheep.
Now the true sons watch over the flock and will not allow the wolves to sneak in and destroy the little ones.

It seems that those who are claiming to warn others and turn them back into law are the wolves in sheeps clothing.
 
iLOVE said:
Luke 12:42-46

English Standard Version (ESV)


42 And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time? 43 Blessed is that servant[a] whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 45 But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful.
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If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done. Ezekiel 33:13

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it. Ezekiel 33:18

The secret consists in maintaining the righteous relationship with the Source of salvation. Jesus said, "He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matthew 24:13. No one will be saved finally who does not hold out against a course of deliberate sin in the power of God. Those who do not endure to the end will have their names blotted out of the book of life.
 
francisdesales said:
OSAS is not. It is from man.

Everyone of of your verses you cite includes the word BELIEVES. It is a present tense verb. Believe NOW. Not ten years ago, once believed always believed.

NOW, as in till the day you die.



Regards
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It is not as you say. It is the the present, active nominative participle verb "pisteuon". notice that there is no mood in the participle verb. If it was in the indicative mood then believing would be seen as a command and one would have to KEEP on believing.

The participle verb "pisteuon" functions as a verbal noun and is "the one who believes" which indicates that it is a MOMENT for the ONE who believes. And anything other then the indicative mood, says that it keeps on being so, as is habitually true.

An example would be," whoever pays His Fine". Pays is in the present tense, but there is an article that pays. the fine is paid at the moment he hands over his money, and the fine continues on, habitually paid.
 
iLOVE said:
If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done. Ezekiel 33:13

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it. Ezekiel 33:18

The secret consists in maintaining the righteous relationship with the Source of salvation. Jesus said, "He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matthew 24:13. No one will be saved finally who does not hold out against a course of deliberate sin in the power of God. Those who do not endure to the end will have their names blotted out of the book of life.
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So you use the law, to promote the law! gee I wonder why the Old Testament law would demand righteousness by works?

Jesus said alot of things, including that none could be taking from the Fathers Hand. Besides that He is speaking of the great tribulation and those who would endure it would be delivered. So again you seem to be unable to present a scripture in an honest way? Yet you are keeping "thou shalt not bear false witness" yea right!
 
jasoncran said:
im far from a legalist, but I do believe that one can walk away from god knowingly. romans one implies the idea that those that do those things did so with the idea that they KNEW GOD WAS REAL.
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Just read it thanks, yes these are people who believe God is real but choose not to accept Him.

19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
 
yes but that can include a believer. what does the Lord say about those that harbor hate and unforgiving? he says that they wont be forgiven. the serveant was forgiven and yet because he didn't show mercy where was he placed?
 
jasoncran said:
sorry I speak from exercience. I went into a gay relationship knowing that It was God himself telling me that it was wrong. we do want that sin that bad.
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Yes we can choose to sin AND we can choose to stop.

The Lord never stopped loving you. I don't know what you were like then, born again or not and I don't need to. The Lord is just glad you are with Him now and the angels sing. By the way you are a blessing to this forum. :)
 
Regarding Romans 1, and men knowing God but not esteeming God as God. I believe Paul is saying all mankind has done this to some degree. Hence God gave men over to the lust of their flesh to become abominations which includes homosexuality as well as fornication and all the abominations described that apply to mankind.

So while it may seem we can choose to sin or choose not to, the fact remains that the lust of the flesh exists not by men's will but simply because we are made flesh and it is only God's Spirit that keeps us from becoming abominations. To not acknowledge God's Word (Spirit) as our Light is to not esteem God as God and invites wrath.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
 
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yes but If I remained there and died where would I go? Hell. praise god for his mercy. thanks. Pray for the birthing of any ministry from me.
 
In the tanach , YHWH says that if the wicked depart and turning right he would remember their evil deeds no more. and the reverse is also said. since when didn't grace exist in the tanach? remember and Noah found grace in the eyes of the lord.
 
vocalyocal said:
well if someone yelled and said "a tornado is coming down the street" and I continued to sit on the porch doing nothing, I would imagine most would contend that I didn't believe the warning

I think if someone says they "believe" that actions will back up the "belief", otherwise they're just a knucklehead sitting on a porch with a tornado coming down the street
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LOL, I like your analogy!.....carry it out though. If you believed that that tornado was coming and ran in the present and got out of the way. You got out of the way and the tornado petered out and went away. Are you forever saved from that particular tornado then?
 
I did, and I responded to that. my friend that is my testimony. I repented at reading romans 1:26. I was going to church faithfully and fell into that sin. its all there. in jewish thought one can know god yet its not as we in the west say I KNOW god. its more of having a relationship.

the greek uses a different word.
Abraham was said to know have Known YHWH in exodus and yet in genesis its says he called YHWH by that name. in the Talmud its said(and adam Clarke agrees) that abram knew god by el shaddai as God as that is how God revealed himself. he did know of the name YHWH but wasn't under that type of relationship? God didn't work with abram as mercy and grace so much but more as a provider and protecter. God has many attributes and doesn't always present them at the same time to us.
 
I believe as I stated before when you were born-again you became the righteousness of Christ by faith. God's beloved! Your salvation has been sealed with rightousness. You are now seated in heavenly places. God will never count or impute your sins against you. However you must repent of your sins daily to stay in good fellowship with God. You must believe that God has been merciful to your unrighteousness, sins, and inquities; God can now right on your heart. As you read the word of God daily your mind is renewed. At the same time grace teaches you how to live righteous, Godly, and zealous. The Holy Spirit transforms you into the image of Lord Jesus Christ. As a child is dependent upon their parents, a Christ Believer must also be dependent upon Christ and the Cross. If God is not first in your life all things will be out of order. Overtime you will no longer be a friend of the world. You must have the fear of God inside you (obedience).

God is a loving Father and He has made provision to forgive you of every sin or mistake. First John 1:9 says that if you confess your sin, He is faithful and just to forgive and cleanse you of all unrighteousness. If you are born again, you can be forgiven as often as you ask.

Being honest and admitting your shortcomings are the first steps on the road to freedom from the sin that binds you. God can’t do anything for you if you are in denial about behavior that opposes His Word. If you gossip, lie or are involved in other forms of sin, admit that you have a problem and ask God to help you. Get in the Word of God and renew your mind in the area in which you have challenges. Confess your sin and move on. “For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved” (Romans 10:10, The New International Version).
 
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