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Some Won't Get Saved

wondering said:
Your comment should be in the thread called The Protestant Pope and the Passion. Because:
I kind of see a day when there WILL have to be some kind of authority to get the Protestant denominations back on the same track.
I don't understand how we can continue in this way.
The reformed are also very united....
Unity is not a bad idea.

How is American culture within Christianity shifting from years past?
Click to expand...
What do we do about those that refuse to get saved?
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
I haven't changed what OSAS means, you have.
You think a person can walk away from their salvation forever.
I say they can't.
Click to expand...
But Jesus says they can....
We either believe what He said, or we don't and put our own spin on it.

Here are some things Jesus said:

Luke 8:13
13And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.
Jesus said they believe for a while and then fall away.
A believer is a saved person....
but it's only for a while,
and then they fall away.


Mark 10:52
52And Jesus said to him, “Go your way; your faith has made you well.” And immediately he recovered his sight and followed him on the way.
Faith has made the person well.
We already read in Luke 8 that some will forfeit their faith if troubles come along, or for various other reasons.
If faith makes us well (and saved)
then losing that faith will also make us lose our wellness and our salvation.


John 11:40
40Jesus said to her, “Did I not tell you that if you believed you would see the glory of God?”
If we believe we will see the glory of God...
If we do not believe (if and when that ever happens) we will not see the glory of God.
It all depends on our belief.
Belief is what saves us and keeps us saved.

John 11:25
25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live...
Again, it's belief that saves us. Some stop believing.
Whoever believes, though he die, yet will he live.

I also refer you to
Luke 13:3-9

And also
Luke 15:24
 
wondering said:
How is American culture within Christianity shifting from years past?
Click to expand...
Many of the churches that build their faith by bashing other denominations are not keeping their youth. Instead many young families are attending churches where denominational lines are loosely held.

For example, my wife and I started going to a new church prior to Covid and they had a worship team of about 30 people. They found out my wife could sing and had her on stage before we were even members. In our small groups class, we were sensitive to each other’s denominational background.
 
wondering said:
But Jesus says they can....
We either believe what He said, or we don't and put our own spin on it.

Here are some things Jesus said:

Luke 8:13
13And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.
Jesus said they believe for a while and then fall away.
A believer is a saved person....
but it's only for a while,
and then they fall away.


Mark 10:52
52And Jesus said to him, “Go your way; your faith has made you well.” And immediately he recovered his sight and followed him on the way.
Faith has made the person well.
We already read in Luke 8 that some will forfeit their faith if troubles come along, or for various other reasons.
If faith makes us well (and saved)
then losing that faith will also make us lose our wellness and our salvation.


John 11:40
40Jesus said to her, “Did I not tell you that if you believed you would see the glory of God?”
If we believe we will see the glory of God...
If we do not believe (if and when that ever happens) we will not see the glory of God.
It all depends on our belief.
Belief is what saves us and keeps us saved.

John 11:25
25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live...
Again, it's belief that saves us. Some stop believing.
Whoever believes, though he die, yet will he live.

I also refer you to
Luke 13:3-9

And also
Luke 15:24
Click to expand...
They have no root.
They don't believe.

Belief does not save us.
We are saved by grace through faith...
 
stovebolts said:
Many of the churches that build their faith by bashing other denominations are not keeping their youth. Instead many young families are attending churches where denominational lines are loosely held.

For example, my wife and I started going to a new church prior to Covid and they had a worship team of about 30 people. They found out my wife could sing and had her on stage before we were even members. In our small groups class, we were sensitive to each other’s denominational background.
Click to expand...
I like this church!

I accept anyone who believes Jesus is Lord as brother ... even if I disagree with some doctrine of theirs.

With the reformed I have a problem, but it's very specific.....it changes the nature of God. But I still consider them brothers.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
They have no root.
They don't believe.

Belief does not save us.
We are saved by grace through faith...
Click to expand...
You say they have no root and don't believe.
Jesus said they have no root and believed for a while.

During that time, were they saved?
Does believing in the Word of God save us?

Jesus said that in time of temptation they fall away.

What are they falling away from?
 
Butch5 said:
I'd say that makes the Resurrection absolutely essential. That leads me back to my original question, "what was finished"? If we'd still be in sin and essentially hopeless, what did Jesus mean when He said, "it is finished"?
Click to expand...

What He came to earth to accomplish. And it was a lot. So many prophecies about Him coming and doing this (Isaiah), animal sacrifices are now finished,

At the point He said it is finished he was already had shed His blood. The blood sacrifice has been provided. Sin debt paid in full, mission accomplished, it is finished.

Now don't get me wrong. I would not downplay the importance of what the Resurrection accomplished. and I realize that the Resurrection was not finished at that point but it's just straining at gnats I think because it was a given to Jesus that He would be resurrected. He knew who He was and where He came from so He knew it would take place and I believe He was only talking about the hard part of the task that His Father had told Him to do.
 
wondering said:
You say they have no root and don't believe.
Jesus said they have no root and believed for a while.

During that time, were they saved?
Does believing in the Word of God save us?

Jesus said that in time of temptation they fall away.

What are they falling away from?
Click to expand...
i believe you are real though I never met you.
Only if believing reaches our heart, otherwise, no.
They fall away because they are not really saved.
That's how you can tell who is real and who isn't.

Some people believe in nature, not God.
That person is a naturalist.
Some people believe in nature and they believe God made nature.
That's called being a supernaturalist.
One is saved and one isn't.
 
wondering said:
Your comment should be in the thread called The Protestant Pope and the Passion. Because:
I kind of see a day when there WILL have to be some kind of authority to get the Protestant denominations back on the same track.
I don't understand how we can continue in this way.
The reformed are also very united....
Unity is not a bad idea.

How is American culture within Christianity shifting from years past?
Click to expand...
My question is in reply to post number 260.
 
Edward said:
What He came to earth to accomplish. And it was a lot. So many prophecies about Him coming and doing this (Isaiah), animal sacrifices are now finished,

At the point He said it is finished he was already had shed His blood. The blood sacrifice has been provided. Sin debt paid in full, mission accomplished, it is finished.

Now don't get me wrong. I would not downplay the importance of what the Resurrection accomplished. and I realize that the Resurrection was not finished at that point but it's just straining at gnats I think because it was a given to Jesus that He would be resurrected. He knew who He was and where He came from so He knew it would take place and I believe He was only talking about the hard part of the task that His Father had told Him to do.
Click to expand...
Actually, the only reason I asked the question was to point out that we really don't know what He meant. We can only speculate because He didn't elaborate.
 
Butch5 said:
Actually, the only reason I asked the question was to point out that we really don't know what He meant. We can only speculate because He didn't elaborate.
Click to expand...

But we do know what it means. At least for the most part. I understand that God's thoughts and ways are above mans so there may be even more to it than we realize but we are not to worry about such things because the Lord will make His revelations to us in steps and in His good time when we are ready. Meanwhile we take what we can and meditate upon it to carve it into and upon our heart. Bit by bit.
 
Edward said:
But we do know what it means. At least for the most part. I understand that God's thoughts and ways are above mans so there may be even more to it than we realize but we are not to worry about such things because the Lord will make His revelations to us in steps and in His good time when we are ready. Meanwhile we take what we can and meditate upon it to carve it into and upon our heart. Bit by bit.
Click to expand...
But we don't. Anything we say is speculation. Paul even said without the resurrection they would still be in theirs. He said without the Resurrection their faith was in vain. If salvation was accomplished on the cross then how is their faith in vain without the Resurrection?
 
Butch5 said:
But we don't. Anything we say is speculation. Paul even said without the resurrection they would still be in theirs. He said without the Resurrection their faith was in vain. If salvation was accomplished on the cross then how is their faith in vain without the Resurrection?
Click to expand...

We don't seem to be on the same page here. I was talking about when Jesus said it is finished and the far reaching implications of that and it's significance in our lives.

And you seem to totally dismiss that and gloss over it to talk about the resurrection. Yes it is true that if the resurrection had never happened then faith is vain and salvation a lie. But it did happen. So where are you going with this?
Are you saying Jesus was wrong? It wasnt finished yet?
The 2ns coming of Christ hasn't happened yet, but Jesus said, it is finished. Did He lie?

No He did not. The 2nd Coming is not what Jesus was focus upon when He said it is finished. The same is true about the resurrection. We still need the resurrection. We still need the 2nd coming. Those are talked about on the next page, lol. Turn the page.
 
Butch5 said:
I think you're missing something. It's not just important, it's crucial. Yes, Jesus' death is important, but without the Resurrection what would we have? You see, this is where I think this idea that Christians go to Heaven is damaging. You hear Christians talking about going to Heaven all the time, but not talking about the Resurrection much. What would we have without the Resurrection?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. (1 Cor. 15:13-20 KJV)

Paul said, "if in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable". He also said that if Christ isn't risen we'd still be in sin.

I'd say that makes the Resurrection absolutely essential. That leads me back to my original question, "what was finished"? If we'd still be in sin and essentially hopeless, what did Jesus mean when He said, "it is finished"?
Click to expand...
Hi Butch and Edward

I'm reading along and you both seem to be right.
I don't understand what the thin red line is.....

Jesus finished the work the Father sent Him to do....
Be the final revelation of God.
Be the final sacrifice and thus end the sacrificial system.
Be our Lord, and we learn through Him.

I had a thread on this some time ago...

It Is Finished...​

It was in THEOLOGY.

As to the resurrection:

The death of Christ was foreseen in the O.T. and is our atonement...
The resurrection testifies to the fact that Jesus was indeed the Savior.

Both were necessary.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
i believe you are real though I never met you.
Only if believing reaches our heart, otherwise, no.
They fall away because they are not really saved.
That's how you can tell who is real and who isn't.

Some people believe in nature, not God.
That person is a naturalist.
Some people believe in nature and they believe God made nature.
That's called being a supernaturalist.
One is saved and one isn't.
Click to expand...
Luke 8:13 states, by Jesus, that THEY FELL AWAY.
WHAT did those persons that believed for a while FALL AWAY from?

They must have fallen away from something that they had...
then they fell away from it and had it no more.

Don't you think what they fell away from was their faith?

1 Timothy 4:1 Paul speaks about departing (falling away) from the faith.

Hebrews 3:12 says we can fall away from the living God.

2 Peter 3:17 says we can fall away from our own steadfastness.
 
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