Some Won't Get Saved

[Rollo Tamasi]

I don't believe seeking assurance is the cause of discussions re salvation.

In fact, I'd say that some are overly assured of their salvation and have a false sense of security.

I've posted with persons that believe they can live a life of sin and still be assured of salvation because they "accepted Jesus" at some point in their lives.

This would fall into the category of once saved, always saved.

I also know that some worry about not really being saved, but I find these to be very few
And usually persons with an obsessive compulsive disorder.

I believe in once saved always saved.
But not the way you see it.
These people you say continue to sin but believe they are saved, who are they?
Why do you not quote me?
Is it because you are a good works salvation person and you can't prove that's the way to go?
So you try to rally people around you and that's suppose to make it right?
What kind of christianity is that?
You give names to everyone.
What name do you give to yourself?

 

[Butch5]

That's exactly right Brother. And when Jesus said on the cross, it is finished...He meant it. Every Blessing for every man who ever lives here on earth and all who will, is already finished and in place. Your Provision for everything you would ever need, has already been given. It is finished...

God waits on us now. To receive it in faith and believing that you already got it. So boldly approach the throne and receive them. It begins with redemption, but now there is a big mountain to climb. The mountain of God.

What was finished?

 

[Edward]

What was finished?

Everything that Jesus and the Father needed to do in order to make it possible for man's redemption, The blood was shed, the price paid, every blessing, every provision that man would ever need.

 

[Butch5]

Everything that Jesus and the Father needed to do in order to make it possible for man's redemption, The blood was shed, the price paid, every blessing, every provision that man would ever need.

I didnt read that. But, what about the Resurrection? It hadn't taken place yet. It seems to me that's a pretty important part.

 

[Randy]

Do you see “coming to Jesus”, because we are drawn, as being the same as being saved?





JLB

The Lord seems to suggest that is the end result. That those the Father gives Him believe in Him as opposed to those that didn't believe in Jesus. They are saved by their faith. (looks to the Son and believes in Him) Remember those that go to Jesus are those who are listening to and learning from the Father.

But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

 

[JLB]

No one can come to the Father unless the Son Yeshua draws them and I think it is mans desperation that asks this question. God on the other hand has it all under control and all things work as he has designed it to.
Eventually through the purifying of the lake of fire all men will enter Gods kingdom the new earth. The Gospel is clear as from when it was first proclaimed in Genesis 3:24

Some tend to believe that. That after a person has spent enough time in the lake of fire they will be purged and then able to enter the kingdom of God.


And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:12-15







JLB

 

[JLB]

The Lord seems to suggest that is the end result. That those the Father gives Him believe in Him as opposed to those that didn't believe in Jesus. They are saved by their faith. (looks to the Son and believes in Him) Remember those that go to Jesus are those who are listening to and learning from the Father.

I dont see where the Lord says that... those who are drawn to Him have an end result of salvation.

• From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.

What I do see the Lord saying is, those who endure to the end will be saved.

The Lord desires all to come to repentance and be saved.

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”
John 12:32


Will all people be saved?


No, those who endure to the end will be saved.



I see being drawn to Christ as God’s love for all the world, however even those who are in Christ must remain in Him.






JLB

 

[Edward]

I didnt read that. But, what about the Resurrection? It hadn't taken place yet. It seems to me that's a pretty important part.

Oh it is important. It's highly likely that His resurrection is equally important as His death was. It gave Him credibility. It had proven that, all those promises that Jesus had been making to the Apostles that He would be resurrected on the third day. You see, when He dies on the cross, it created a lot of confusion and doubt in many people who were closely associated with Jesus. But when Jesus was resurrected and went calling on people it blew that doubt out of the water and garnered many followers. Paul talked about this in 1 Corinthians 15:12-19

So Jesus's death took care of the sin problem.
Jesus's resurrection carved it into stone and established it as the truth and validated everything He did and said.

 

[Randy]

I dont see where the Lord says that... those who are drawn to Him have an end result of salvation.

• From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.

What I do see the Lord saying is, those who endure to the end will be saved.

The Lord desires all to come to repentance and be saved.

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”
John 12:32


Will all people be saved?


No, those who endure to the end will be saved.



I see being drawn to Christ as God’s love for all the world, however even those who are in Christ must remain in Him.






JLB

Yes we must remain in Christ and with the aid of the Spirit within overcome this world.

The Father has given us to Jesus that He might give us eternal life as is knowing the only true God and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.

After Jesus had spoken these words, he looked up to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son so that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all people, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

 

[JLB]

Yes we must remain in Christ and with the aid of the Spirit within overcome this world.

Boy, isn’t that the truth. Amen.

 

[JLB]

After Jesus had spoken these words, he looked up to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son so that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all people, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

Knowing Him is definitely eternal life.


We who are Christ’s are joined to Him, and one spirit with Him.

Therefore we are one with eternal life; the Spirit of life in Christ.

However, we also look forward to inheriting eternal life, when He returns and we are resurrected from the dead. This is what Paul refers to as the “hope of eternal life”.


But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:4-7






JLB

 

[Butch5]

Oh it is important. It's highly likely that His resurrection is equally important as His death was. It gave Him credibility. It had proven that, all those promises that Jesus had been making to the Apostles that He would be resurrected on the third day. You see, when He dies on the cross, it created a lot of confusion and doubt in many people who were closely associated with Jesus. But when Jesus was resurrected and went calling on people it blew that doubt out of the water and garnered many followers. Paul talked about this in 1 Corinthians 15:12-19

So Jesus's death took care of the sin problem.
Jesus's resurrection carved it into stone and established it as the truth and validated everything He did and said.

I think you're missing something. It's not just important, it's crucial. Yes, Jesus' death is important, but without the Resurrection what would we have? You see, this is where I think this idea that Christians go to Heaven is damaging. You hear Christians talking about going to Heaven all the time, but not talking about the Resurrection much. What would we have without the Resurrection?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. (1 Cor. 15:13-20 KJV)

Paul said, "if in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable". He also said that if Christ isn't risen we'd still be in sin.

I'd say that makes the Resurrection absolutely essential. That leads me back to my original question, "what was finished"? If we'd still be in sin and essentially hopeless, what did Jesus mean when He said, "it is finished"?

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering,

The Bible tells us what will happen to those who have not heard the direct, verbal proclamation of the Gospel. They will be without excuse (Rom 1:18-30; Rom 2:7).

What have they done with the revelation given to them in conscience and natural revelation?

Oz

Agreed.
No one will be without excuse....
but imagine have heard the gospel, the Word of God, and then reject it.
This is rejecting direct revelation....
For the others that have never heard the gospel it will be conscience and natural revelation, as you've stated.
And it is Jesus that died even for these....

1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[GodsGrace]

No one can come to the Father unless the Son Yeshua draws them and I think it is mans desperation that asks this question. God on the other hand has it all under control and all things work as he has designed it to.
Eventually through the purifying of the lake of fire all men will enter Gods kingdom the new earth. The Gospel is clear as from when it was first proclaimed in Genesis 3:24

Where does it state that all will be purified through the lake of fire and then those will go to heaven?
How does Genesis 3:24 state what you say??ì

Genesis 3:24
24After sending them out, the LORD God stationed mighty cherubim to the east of the Garden of Eden. And he placed a flaming sword that flashed back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

 

[GodsGrace]

No one can come to the Father unless the Son Yeshua draws them and I think it is mans desperation that asks this question. God on the other hand has it all under control and all things work as he has designed it to.
Eventually through the purifying of the lake of fire all men will enter Gods kingdom the new earth. The Gospel is clear as from when it was first proclaimed in Genesis 3:24

Who does the Son, Yeshua, draw?

John 12:32
32And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”

 

[GodsGrace]

It's in John 15, Sister. It doesn't say it like is being put forth in this thread, but it does say that He chose us we didn't choose Him. But this in no way means that we don't have free will because the same chapter says we must abide in Him, and to abide in Him we must keep His commandments... and that IF we abide in Him and His Love then we can ask for anything we want and we will get it.

These ones trying to dodge personal accountability and deny free will are being short sighted and obviously do not read their Bibles as much as they should. If we have no choice at all and it is up to God to save who He will, so no matter what, they will still go to heaven...that's absurd and certainly that would be too easy, don't you think? If that were true, then it would nullify the scripture what says, straight is the way and narrow is the gate into heaven!

The whole chapter of John 15 relates to these issues, so I didn't just post a verse or two which says He chose us. Read the whole chapter!

Ed, I don't know if the other member meant
Ephesians 1 and 5
or
Ephesians 1:5

In either case,,,When Jesus says that HE chose ... He's speaking about the Apostles specifically.....
Some verses are ONLY for the Apostles...
For instance...can YOU heal persons?
Can YOU baptize persons?
Do YOU go around the world preaching and teaching?

See...some words that Jesus spoke were directly for the Apostles.

As to free will, yes, you know we agree on this.
Of course we have free will....
God made Adam and Eve with free will and it was never taken away.
They chose to eat the forbidden fruit.

And, right, Jesus said to ENTER BY THE NARROW GATE...
That is a command....a command requires making a choice to obey it or not.

As to dodging personal responsibility --- can this be the reason why calvinism is so popular today?

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe in once saved always saved.
But not the way you see it.
These people you say continue to sin but believe they are saved, who are they?
Why do you not quote me?
Is it because you are a good works salvation person and you can't prove that's the way to go?
So you try to rally people around you and that's suppose to make it right?
What kind of christianity is that?
You give names to everyone.
What name do you give to yourself?

But you can't change what once saved always saved means.
It means that once you are saved...you are saved forever - no matter what.
I can't quote YOU because you've changed what OSAS means.

What YOU believe in is eternal security --- which is what I also believe in.
My security is eternal for as long as I want it to be...
For as long as I abide in Christ and do my best to follow His commandments.

As to being a good works salvation person...yes, I believe it's necessary to do good deeds/works,
just as Jesus taught.

If anyone teaches something Jesus did NOT teach,,,then I'll agree with HIM every time.

Have you been on other forums?
You've never heard someone state that they cannot forfeit their salvation no matter how they live?
I'm sure you have.

If you do not believe that you can live a life of sin, and STILL be saved...
then you do not believe in OSAS.

 

[stovebolts]

I often wonder why some persons do not accept God's free gift of salvation.

All that is necessary is to accept it.

Maybe it's fear of letting go and trusting God...
Maybe it's a sin they can't let go of...
They could just be atheist...

Any thoughts?

I’m sure the list is long.
I imagine somewhere in that list has to be the turn off between Christians fighting among ourselves and their since of self righteousness.
While American culture within Christianity seems to be shifting from years past, there were too many denominations fighting and each claiming they were the true church and the rest were in error and going to hell as our message was based more on fear (of hell) than an abundant life with Christ.

.02

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

But you can't change what once saved always saved means.
It means that once you are saved...you are saved forever - no matter what.
I can't quote YOU because you've changed what OSAS means.

What YOU believe in is eternal security --- which is what I also believe in.
My security is eternal for as long as I want it to be...
For as long as I abide in Christ and do my best to follow His commandments.

As to being a good works salvation person...yes, I believe it's necessary to do good deeds/works,
just as Jesus taught.

If anyone teaches something Jesus did NOT teach,,,then I'll agree with HIM every time.

Have you been on other forums?
You've never heard someone state that they cannot forfeit their salvation no matter how they live?
I'm sure you have.

If you do not believe that you can live a life of sin, and STILL be saved...
then you do not believe in OSAS.

I haven't changed what OSAS means, you have.
You think a person can walk away from their salvation forever.
I say they can't.

 

[GodsGrace]

I’m sure the list is long.
I imagine somewhere in that list has to be the turn off between Christians fighting among ourselves and their since of self righteousness.
While American culture within Christianity seems to be shifting from years past, there were too many denominations fighting and each claiming they were the true church and the rest were in error and going to hell as our message was based more on fear (of hell) than an abundant life with Christ.

.02

Your comment should be in the thread called The Protestant Pope and the Passion. Because:
I kind of see a day when there WILL have to be some kind of authority to get the Protestant denominations back on the same track.
I don't understand how we can continue in this way.
The reformed are also very united....
Unity is not a bad idea.

How is American culture within Christianity shifting from years past?