Some Won't Get Saved

[GodsGrace]

You clearly know not what Unitarian,Universalism, teaches.
Universalelism says everybody is saved.
Mao is as blessed as John the Baptist, after this life.

What you have in my posts is not nor has there ever been defense or promotion of Universalism. No reasonable reading of my posts could possibly arrive at that conclusion.

Offtopic question. I have read the owners of this named .org site are the same as own the named .com site. Is this true?

I know what universalism is...
we'll skip that.

Do you realize how weak your version God is?

Scripture states that He'd like to save everyone:
1 Timothy 2:4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.


If God wishes all men to be saved...
And He is sovereign and chooses who will be saved...
then why isn't everyone saved?
Is He too weak to save everyone?

 

[Episcopius]

Chocolate Roadrunner - I have seen it denied that cf.com and cf.net are owned by the same people.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, of course I believe scripture because God inspired his message to the world there.
As to the rest of your observation there, since you don't read and comprehend what I've written already that is from the scripture, I shall not repeat myself thinking to correct your presumption and errors.

CR,

I presume nothing and make no errors.
If you don't know what I'm speaking of...
maybe you should learn calvinism a little better?
It might be YOU that doesn't understand it and not me.

Also, a member cannot go through an entire thread just to see what YOU posted.
It would be civil and well-mannered of you to reply to my posts even if you have to repeat something
you said previously. This is done all the time. This might be your first forum, so I understand -- just
letting you know how this works.

As to believing scripture...
It's not scripture that you believe...
you believe those that teach what John Calvin taught...
and that is NOT what Jesus, or any of the writers taught.

 

[GodsGrace]

Of course you would believe this....
The would be irresistible grace and perseverance of the saints.
Question is: How do you know for sure that YOU will persevere till the end?
You don't. Since God "picked" you, He could also decide to release you back to the status of lost.
And, of course, through no choice of yours!
What a sad lot calvinists are....
They can't even be secure in their salvation.

...there are two species of calling: for there is an universal call, by which God, through the external preaching of the word, invites all men alike, even those for whom he designs the call to be a savor of death, and the ground of a severer condemnation. Besides this there is a special call which, for the most part, God bestows on believers only, when by the internal illumination of the Spirit he causes the word preached to take deep root in their hearts. Sometimes, however, he communicates it also to those whom he enlightens only for a time, and whom afterwards, in just punishment for their ingratitude, he abandons and smites with greater blindness.

Source: The Institutes of the Christian Religion, John Calvin
Book 3 Chapter 24 Paragraph 8

How can a person possibly be sure they are not one of those enlightened only for a time??

It's so wonderful that God's plan is to reveal Himself to all....
1 Timothy 2:4 God's desire is for all to be saved - alas, not all want to be saved and it is their free choice not to be.

Because He is not partial but invites everyone to salvation....
Romans 2:11 No partiality
John 3:16 Whosoever believes in Jesus is saved...of their own free will....
Deuteronomy 30:19 Choose life, in order that you may live. Choosing denotes free will.
John 5:39-40
39“You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!
40Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life.
The scriptures pointed to Jesus, but the Jews wanting to kill Him were UNWILLING and REFUSED to go to Jesus to receive life.

Unwillingness and refusal imply free will.

And so, we can know we are saved because we CHOOSE to remain with Christ, dwell with Him,
Abide in Him, and follow His commandments.

The above is for Chocolate Roadrunner ...

Chance no. 2

Perhaps you'd like to reply to the above?

1. How can YOU be sure you're saved?

2. I've posted how Christians understand soteriology.
What is it that you do not agree with?

 

[JLB]

Chocolate Roadrunner - I have seen it denied that cf.com and cf.net are owned by the same people.

This forum is not owned by the same person as cf.com.

 

[for_his_glory]

It's in God's word , the new testament. And you don't know it's there. It is the most basic truism in the Gospel letters of Paul.

Again give us that scripture as we take no ones word for anything without scriptural support. We never second guess or assume anything that one speaks unless they can back themselves up with facts.

 

[for_his_glory]

Where did God do that for the Egyptians? Book,chapter, verse(d) please.

Exodus Chapter 7-12. It's the same with the first six trumpets of God's mighty wrath being poured out into the world in the end of days as He gives everyone a chance to repent and turn back to Him, but yet many will refuse just like Pharaoh and the Egyptians.

 

[for_his_glory]

I made that point about Gotquestions.org being 4 point Calvinists, as they state on their site, as an FYI because of GQ.org being used by some to sustain their side in this debate.

Regardless you provided a false Calvinistic doctrines.

 

[JLB]

Bye

Goodby.

 

[for_his_glory]

Not incomprehensible at all. The demonization arrived in this world when pride filled people in the flesh began to teach God needs human help to honor his predestined plan of salvation for his elect.
He elected, predetermined their salvation,died to deal the irrevocable promise, but can't accomplish his will without their help.
Synergistic Soteriology = those ones help God to save them and keep his word.

The demonization arrived in the world when man first sinned and fell away from being obedient to God's command as man teaches doctrines of devils in order to justify themselves.

1Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Timothy 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

 

[Butch5]

Chocolate Roadrunner

How do you know what everyone thinks?

 

[for_his_glory]

Oh Ok. Maybe I misunderstood. I don't think that God chooses who will and won't be saved. I think there is a lot of confusion on this subject because of the preconceptions that are brought to the text.

I even confused myself when I went back and read my post again, lol.

 

[Butch5]

I even confused myself when I went back and read my post again, lol.

lol

 

[Butch5]

It's sad...
but it's kind of funny.
This is why I constantly state that calvinism makes no sense.
It's just not a logical teaching of soteriology OR the nature of God.
Going to post a link to Sproul in Theology tomorrow (wish I had more time)....
It's just too much.... Look for it....(irresistible grace).

I will. I find it sad that so many are so ill informed. Even when you try to help people understand, they just want to argue. I pointed out several passages that Chocolate Roadrunner had used out of context and showed the passage in context. He/She simply skipped over it and continued on. It's at that point I realized she's just parroting

 

[Butch5]

Chocolate Roadrunner said:

"You are a site owned by the atheist family that also owns CF.com."

HOO-WAH !!!!​

I guess the owners at CF.com didn't agree with him/her either.

 

[Episcopius]

No doubt.

Butch5 - as far as Israel being the Elect - I have mixed emotions...

It's clear that they WERE

But in some sense "Israel HAD THEIR SHOT"

and yet Paul wrote about "all Israel will be saved" in the future

they are not all Israel that are of Israel - and we regard them as enemies of Christ - yet beloved for the sake of the Fathers - I don't what to think of current Israel...

 

[Butch5]

No doubt.

Butch5 - as far as Israel being the Elect - I have mixed emotions...

It's clear that they WERE

But in some sense "Isreal HAD THEIR SHOT"

and yet Paul wrote about "all Israel will be saved" in the future

they are not all Israel that are of Israel - and we regard them as enemies of Christ - yet beloved for the sake of the Fathers - I don't what to think of current Israel...

Paul says that the Gentiles are grafted into Israel in Romans 11. That's how I see Gentiles entering into the covenant. The New Covenant was made with Israel.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (Jer. 31:1 KJV)

 

[GodsGrace]

I will. I find it sad that so many are so ill informed. Even when you try to help people understand, they just want to argue. I pointed out several passages that Chocolate Roadrunner had used out of context and showed the passage in context. He/She simply skipped over it and continued on. It's at that point I realized she's just parroting

I just posted it under THEOLOGY.
I'm letting Sproul explain it to show how illogical their reasoning is.
It's all like this....how some don't see past it is just not understood by me.
Some claim God did not create sin...then they go on to explain how God created everything...
Some will state that God created even sin (I think Piper does) but some Calvinists will tell you this is wrong....
I sometimes wonder if calvinists understand calvin....
and Sproul, and Piper, and Macarthur, etc.

Maybe there should be a denomination called "soft calvinism" for those that
can't take the truth...

 

[GodsGrace]

Paul says that the Gentiles are grafted into Israel in Romans 11. That's how I see Gentiles entering into the covenant. The New Covenant was made with Israel.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (Jer. 31:1 KJV)

It's also in the Abrahamic Covenant.....
Abraham will be the father of many nations...
Genesis 17:1.....

And through Abraham God re-establishes His original purpose for humanity, which was threatened by the very sinful population
of Noah's time. God wants to save man and not destroy him... This will be achieved through the descendants of Abraham.
(culminating with Christ).

 

[Butch5]

I just posted it under THEOLOGY.
I'm letting Sproul explain it to show how illogical their reasoning is.
It's all like this....how some don't see past it is just not understood by me.
Some claim God did not create sin...then they go on to explain how God created everything...
Some will state that God created even sin (I think Piper does) but some Calvinists will tell you this is wrong....
I sometimes wonder if calvinists understand calvin....
and Sproul, and Piper, and Macarthur, etc.

Maybe there should be a denomination called "soft calvinism" for those that
can't take the truth...

View attachment 12084

Hi Wondering,

Actually, there are different branches of Calvinism. It doesn't surprise me that people buy into it. I've seen so many who don't want to address the issues in their belief system. I know quite a few Calvinists. The Denomination reminds me of the Pharisees. I think they make it so complicated that the average Calvinist doesn't really understand it. Most simply parrot proof texts. When I was a Calvinist and began questioning the beliefs I would go to the pastors. There were at least three in the Church I was at. When I'd ask them questions they'd say things like, 'some things are hard to understand' or 'it's a mystery'. I could buy that in the beginning with a passage or two. However, when that pretty much became the standard answer to a multitude of questions I wasn't buying it anymore. I began to look at what others believed. In the course of doing that I saw other interpretations of those passages that Calvinists use. As I began to look closely at those passages in context it became clear that they weren't saying what those pastors had told me they say.