Somethings that are a sin for one may not be for Another

[Not_Now.Soon]

So... Following this logic...

Cutting yourself would be a sin.
Ergo...Pierced ears, noses and etc are sinful. As in Isaac's wife.

Sorry,. I just don't buy this logic

This is the first time I've heard this logic applied to smoking, but I've heard it with regard to tattoos. Thanks for the example of Isaac's wife and piercings. Helps refute on this kind of logic and one other kind.

 

[Mike]

So then I asked if you could provide a reference (where adultery was not a sin for some.)

I think you two are talking past one another. I believe he was saying adultery certainly is a sin all the time for all people. I'd typically let him respond, but he did, and I think you still misunderstood him. At least I hope you did.

Certain things like adultery are unquestionably said to be sinful in scripture. Other things like smoking and drinking alcohol in moderation might depend on whether a person has been told not to by the Holy Spirit, but they have not submitted to Him.

 

[joseph lentz]

In post #28 OzSpen asked the following.

To which you replied with this (note what I bold typed)...

So then I asked if you could provide a reference (where adultery was not a sin for some.)[/QUOTE

In post #28 OzSpen asked the following.

To which you replied with this (note what I bold typed)...

So then I asked if you could provide a reference (where adultery was not a sin for some.)

Either I didn't word it right or I misunderstood his question at the time.Either way it was my fault. What I was trying to say in answer though, was yes,it certainly is a sin for both.

 

[Nathan]

In post #28 OzSpen asked the following.

To which you replied with this (note what I bold typed)...

So then I asked if you could provide a reference (where adultery was not a sin for some.)

WIP
I saw that that also, but I really did not take it in the way it looks. I think it was taken wrong even though it looked wrong.

 

[WIP]

Either I didn't word it right or I misunderstood his question at the time.Either way it was my fault. What I was trying to say in answer though, was yes,it certainly is a sin for both.

Thanks for clarifying. I was trying to understand what situation that would be where adultery would not be sinful.

 

[joseph lentz]

Thanks for clarifying. I was trying to understand what situation that would be where adultery would not be sinful.

You're welcome and thanks.
I'm just glad you weren't looking for a loophole.

 

[OzSpen]

Other things like smoking and drinking alcohol in moderation might depend on whether a person has been told not to by the Holy Spirit, but they have not submitted to Him.

Mike,

We know that drinking alcohol is not a sin as Paul said to Timothy, 'Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses' (1 Tim 5:23 NIV). It was legit for Jesus to turn water into wine and for them to drink it (John 2:1-11).

However, excessive drinking of alcohol is a sin: 'Don’t be drunk with wine, because that will ruin your life. Instead, be filled with the Holy Spirit' (Eph 5:18 NLT).

However, if my drinking alcohol causes another Christian to stumble, I will not drink alcohol. See Rom 14:20-21 (NLT):

20 Don’t tear apart the work of God over what you eat. Remember, all foods are acceptable, but it is wrong to eat something if it makes another person stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else if it might cause another believer to stumble.​

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Either I didn't word it right or I misunderstood his question at the time.Either way it was my fault. What I was trying to say in answer though, was yes,it certainly is a sin for both.

 

[OzSpen]

Drinking in excess, is a sin and is harmful in ways we can see. Eating in excess is the same. Spoking verses smoking in excess, doesn't make a person a drunk and lose their senses, nor does it fuel their greed for food and eat while others starve.

So the maybe not though is that if smoking is unhealthy, making it a sin, then smoking in excess is the same just worse in the amount done. (Kind of like lying a little verses lying constantly sort of thing). But if smoking a little is like drinking a little and not a sin, then perhaps smoking a lot is not a sin either just horrible for your wallet and your health. Smoking more as far as I can tell doesn't make a person sin more like eating and drinking in excess does. Thus the "maybe not" is applied in my reasoning.

What does 'Spoking verses' mean?

 

[Mike]

We know that drinking alcohol is not a sin as Paul said to Timothy, 'Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses'

I agree with your position as it is expressed by scripture, but tell that to 15 million Southern Baptists who disagree. On the other hand, alcohol may be a stumbling block to some. If someone is convinced that the Holy Spirit is impressing on them that they should not drink alcohol and they do not obey, to them it may be a sin.

 

[joseph lentz]

Mike,

We know that drinking alcohol is not a sin as Paul said to Timothy, 'Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses' (1 Tim 5:23 NIV). It was legit for Jesus to turn water into wine and for them to drink it (John 2:1-11).

However, excessive drinking of alcohol is a sin: 'Don’t be drunk with wine, because that will ruin your life. Instead, be filled with the Holy Spirit' (Eph 5:18 NLT).

However, if my drinking alcohol causes another Christian to stumble, I will not drink alcohol. See Rom 14:20-21 (NLT):

20 Don’t tear apart the work of God over what you eat. Remember, all foods are acceptable, but it is wrong to eat something if it makes another person stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything else if it might cause another believer to stumble.​

Oz

You are right on target!!
Its like when Paul said if eating of food offered to idols offends your brother,don't do it.
But I think after that brother goes home.........pig out

 

[OzSpen]

I agree with your position as it is expressed by scripture, but tell that to 15 million Southern Baptists who disagree. On the other hand, alcohol may be a stumbling block to some. If someone is convinced that the Holy Spirit is impressing on them that they should not drink alcohol and they do not obey, to them it may be a sin.

Mike,

There are a few other issues concerning the differences between strong drink and alcohol in the Bible. I'm convinced that alcohol in Australia is closer to strong drink in the Bible, which use is forbidden.

I wrote this article 10 years ago (it probably needs some revising) to show the links of alcohol in the Bible and what we drink today, and to explain why I'm a teetotaller: Alcohol and the Christian.

Oz

 

[JohnDB]

You are right on target!!
Its like when Paul said if eating of food offered to idols offends your brother,don't do it.
But I think after that brother goes home.........pig out

Yeah,.
Not many SDA in most of Europe... Especially around Austria and Germany where the predominate meat is pork.

I think that they would have to starve.

 

[JohnDB]

From my understanding and research...

Four types of alcoholic beverages in scriptures.
Beer: invented in Egypt and made by Hebrew women for years as slaves. Predominantly drank by "working class".

New Wine: lightly sparkling grape juice and somewhat similar to Champagne. Yes, it was alcoholic.

Wine: Everyone drank it. Surface well water all had fecal contamination from latrines being too close. (Especially after rain) the stronger and sweeter the better to create something akin to koolaide to drink. Full strength wine wasn't drunk by Levites on duty at the Temple after the incident with Aaron's sons in the Torah. But other Israelites we're told to purchase wine or beer when celebrating at the Temple. It was used in engagement parties, Seder (4 cups ceremonially shared) and other occasions (like weddings) or simply consumed on a regular basis if wealthy enough.
Wine mixed with spices was to get a person stoned out of their minds. But on a class note... When the Hebrews exited Egypt only the noble elite citizens of Egypt drank wine. They, as slaves, never could afford it.

Aperitifs: fortified wines, may have a few spices or herbs. Stronger alcohol content. Used as an after dinner drink for big meals. Also used in drink offerings. "A good meal suggests a good drink to follow" was the reasoning.

Strong drink: cognac and brandy and grain liquor. It existed. "Give it to the dying"...Nuff said.

Jam: after making wine the pulp, seeds, and skins are cooked and pressed together. Usually only those who have owned a winery or been friends of owner's ever see this stuff today. But it was at "The Last Supper". Also referred to as "blood of the grape" or wine...As all grape products were.

 

[joseph lentz]

From my understanding and research...

Four types of alcoholic beverages in scriptures.
Beer: invented in Egypt and made by Hebrew women for years as slaves. Predominantly drank by "working class".

New Wine: lightly sparkling grape juice and somewhat similar to Champagne. Yes, it was alcoholic.

Wine: Everyone drank it. Surface well water all had fecal contamination from latrines being too close. (Especially after rain) the stronger and sweeter the better to create something akin to koolaide to drink. Full strength wine wasn't drunk by Levites on duty at the Temple after the incident with Aaron's sons in the Torah. But other Israelites we're told to purchase wine or beer when celebrating at the Temple. It was used in engagement parties, Seder (4 cups ceremonially shared) and other occasions (like weddings) or simply consumed on a regular basis if wealthy enough.
Wine mixed with spices was to get a person stoned out of their minds. But on a class note... When the Hebrews exited Egypt only the noble elite citizens of Egypt drank wine. They, as slaves, never could afford it.

Aperitifs: fortified wines, may have a few spices or herbs. Stronger alcohol content. Used as an after dinner drink for big meals. Also used in drink offerings. "A good meal suggests a good drink to follow" was the reasoning.

Strong drink: cognac and brandy and grain liquor. It existed. "Give it to the dying"...Nuff said.

Jam: after making wine the pulp, seeds, and skins are cooked and pressed together. Usually only those who have owned a winery or been friends of owner's ever see this stuff today. But it was at "The Last Supper". Also referred to as "blood of the grape" or wine...As all grape products were.

Interesting!

 

[JohnDB]

Interesting!

Yeah, and I'm a Southern Baptist.

 

[joseph lentz]

Yeah, and I'm a Southern Baptist.

I am General Baptist.....we love Bacon!!!!!

 

[WIP]

You're welcome and thanks.
I'm just glad you weren't looking for a loophole.

For the record, I don't look for loopholes or try to pin others into a corner. To me, that is not a very Christian thing to do because to do so imputes my own pride and selfish desires and I have enough of that so there's no reason to feed it even more if I can help it.

 

[WIP]

I am General Baptist.....we love Bacon!!!!!

I must be part Baptist...I love bacon too!!

 

[reba]

Pentecostals love bacon ... Frying a slice of bread in the pan after the bacon