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Somethings that are a sin for one may not be for Another

JohnDB said:
Ok...
So with all this talk about what is or isn't a sin...Let's review.

The goal of Christianity and our behavior is to "Love the Lord thy God with all heart, mind, and power". Which gets expressed by loving our neighbors.

So in short, we are supposed to work towards being more loving.

So...
How does consuming, touching, tasting or artistic expression anything (like alcohol, piercings, tattoos, or tobacco) have to do with not loving others or God?
Click to expand...

JohnDB,

You've only given half of the goal of Christianity, 'Love the Lord....' The other half is, 'The second is equally important: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' No other commandment is greater than these' (Mark 12:31 NLT).

How can you love your neighbour as yourself and blow cigarette smoke into their atmosphere for their inhaling? Same goes with alcohol, piercings and tattoos that may cause your Christian neighbour to stumble or sin. I think you are brushing aside these issues too lightly.

Christianity has a number of other goals, some of which are behavioural. If you don't believe me, take a read of Matt 25:31-46 (NLT) and James 2:14-26 (NLT).

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
JohnDB,

You've only given half of the goal of Christianity, 'Love the Lord....' The other half is, 'The second is equally important: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' No other commandment is greater than these' (Mark 12:31 NLT).

How can you love your neighbour as yourself and blow cigarette smoke into their atmosphere for their inhaling? Same goes with alcohol, piercings and tattoos that may cause your Christian neighbour to stumble or sin. I think you are brushing aside these issues too lightly.

Christianity has a number of other goals, some of which are behavioural. If you don't believe me, take a read of Matt 25:31-46 (NLT) and James 2:14-26 (NLT).

Oz
Click to expand...
I've said and will repeat myself.

What's with the false accusations?
I've never once suggested or intimated that someone should force another to do anything.

I asked a simple question about loving others in search of a simple answer. Yet I'm getting accused of forcing others into doing something. The two aren't congruent.
 
JohnDB said:
I've said and will repeat myself.

What's with the false accusations?
I've never once suggested or intimated that someone should force another to do anything.

I asked a simple question about loving others in search of a simple answer. Yet I'm getting accused of forcing others into doing something. The two aren't congruent.
Click to expand...

John,

That's a red herring fallacy.

Not once have I accused you or stated that you were forcing others to do anything. Not once. You are falsely accusing me.

Oz
 
JohnDB said:
Ok...
So with all this talk about what is or isn't a sin...Let's review.

The goal of Christianity and our behavior is to "Love the Lord thy God with all heart, mind, and power". Which gets expressed by loving our neighbors.

So in short, we are supposed to work towards being more loving.

So...
How does consuming, touching, tasting or artistic expression anything (like alcohol, piercings, tattoos, or tobacco) have to do with not loving others or God?
Click to expand...

OzSpen said:
JohnDB,

You've only given half of the goal of Christianity, 'Love the Lord....' The other half is, 'The second is equally important: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' No other commandment is greater than these' (Mark 12:31 NLT).

How can you love your neighbour as yourself and blow cigarette smoke into their atmosphere for their inhaling? Same goes with alcohol, piercings and tattoos that may cause your Christian neighbour to stumble or sin. I think you are brushing aside these issues too lightly.

Christianity has a number of other goals, some of which are behavioural. If you don't believe me, take a read of Matt 25:31-46 (NLT) and James 2:14-26 (NLT).

Oz
Click to expand...
John nicely addressed the loving your neighbour in the part highlighted
 
No it doesn't depend, but it looks like this is a snowflake set up to get the thread closed anyway.

For the OP, yes there are things that are sin for one and not another. David took a head count and it was sin, for him. I'd imagine just about anything we can think of is sin for someone somewhere, we just don't get a say in it. Trying to influence elders or deacons or even earthly governments to do something to prohibit people from living in the freedom God gave them because we think we know better due to science revealing effects of something or our plain distaste for it....thats a huge display of disrespect for God and lack of love to the individual.
 
OzSpen said:
Not once have I accused you or stated that you were forcing others to do anything.
Click to expand...
But you made a big leap when you said this.
OzSpen said:
How can you love your neighbour as yourself and blow cigarette smoke into their atmosphere for their inhaling?
Click to expand...
You've been arguing that smoking is inherently a sin; not that blowing smoke into the breathing air of others is a sin. How do you go from what John said about loving the Lord to blowing smoke at someone.

What if they do it in the privacy of their own home, and it does not impact others? Is that sin? What about smoking in the centuries prior to its harmful effects being made known? Was it a sin then? Was it not a sin then, but it is now?

This is all taking our focus off the main thing. Love the Lord and love your neighbor.
OzSpen said:
Same goes with alcohol, piercings and tattoos that may cause your Christian neighbour to stumble or sin.
Click to expand...
Do you believe all of these are inherently sinful, or only when they cause your brother to stumble? If it's the former, that's legalism. If it's the latter, then you've flip-flopped in this discussion and now agree with the premise of the OP.
 
reba said:
John nicely addressed the loving your neighbour in the part highlighted
Click to expand...

reba,

JohnDB stated, 'Which gets expressed by loving our neighbors.'

This is what Jesus stated according to Mark 12:28-31 (NIV):

28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

29“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.e 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’f 31The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”​

So the first command of 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength' is not followed by that 'which gets expressed by loving your neighbors'. It is followed by a second command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself'. The affirmation is: 'There is no commandment greater than these'.

Oz
 
Mike said:
You've been arguing that smoking is inherently a sin; not that blowing smoke into the breathing air of others is a sin. How do you go from what John said about loving the Lord to blowing smoke at someone.
Click to expand...

Mike,

Please go back to #4 where I stated:

Is the dirty habit of contaminating the human body with cigarette smoke (with the potential for lung cancer) not a sin against God (not honoring Him), you (contaminating your body) and others ( providing smoke that has the potential to damage the bodies of them)?​

You seem to have glossed over what I wrote here.

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
Mike,

Please go back to #4 where I stated:

Is the dirty habit of contaminating the human body with cigarette smoke (with the potential for lung cancer) not a sin against God (not honoring Him), you (contaminating your body) and others ( providing smoke that has the potential to damage the bodies of them)?​

You seem to have glossed over what I wrote here.

Oz
Click to expand...
We aren't glossing over your statements.

It's the logic that isn't tracking with us.

How does a person who does any of these "contested" things but doesn't force anyone else to do these things fail at loving others? (Although they do seem to get accused of forcing others by asking questions)
 
Brother OzSpen I didn't gloss over it. Please refer to post 27.

You are calling this a sin on the basis that it has harmful effects on the body. Let's review a few things in a long list that we consume or engage in that modern medicine has proven to have short and long term harmful effects as well.
  • Processed food - sin?
  • Bacon - sin?
  • Fast food - sin?
  • Getting less than the preferred 8 hours of sleep - sin?
  • Sitting on the couch in the evening watching TV - sin?
  • Eating foods with high cholesterol levels - sin?
  • Not getting your heart rate up for 30 minutes every day with cardio exercise - sin?
You didn't acknowledge my point about the centuries people smoked cigarettes before their harmful effects were made known. Was smoking not a sin to God then, but it is now? Same question for my list above and countless other things not mentioned. Were they sinful before peer reviewed studies demonstrated their harmful effects?

I find it's much easier for believers to label something a sin if they don't personally consume it or engage in it, but we tend to overlook some things we do.
 
Automobile exhaust is harmful...So following this logic driving a car must be a sin. The air pollution in cities is just horrible.
 
JohnDB said:
Automobile exhaust is harmful...So following this logic driving a car must be a sin. The air pollution in cities is just horrible.
Click to expand...
A very good example. How can you love your neighbor and blow those emissions into their atmosphere for their inhaling?
 
Mike said:
Brother OzSpen I didn't gloss over it. Please refer to post 27.

You are calling this a sin on the basis that it has harmful effects on the body. Let's review a few things in a long list that we consume or engage in that modern medicine has proven to have short and long term harmful effects as well.
  • Processed food - sin?
  • Bacon - sin?
  • Fast food - sin?
  • Getting less than the preferred 8 hours of sleep - sin?
  • Sitting on the couch in the evening watching TV - sin?
  • Eating foods with high cholesterol levels - sin?
  • Not getting your heart rate up for 30 minutes every day with cardio exercise - sin?
You didn't acknowledge my point about the centuries people smoked cigarettes before their harmful effects were made known. Was smoking not a sin to God then, but it is now? Same question for my list above and countless other things not mentioned. Were they sinful before peer reviewed studies demonstrated their harmful effects?

I find it's much easier for believers to label something a sin if they don't personally consume it or engage in it, but we tend to overlook some things we do.
Click to expand...

Mike,

You have here committed the Appeal to Ridicule Logical Fallacy. We cannot have a rational conversation when you engage in this kind of fallacious reasoning.

Oz
 
JohnDB said:
We aren't glossing over your statements.

It's the logic that isn't tracking with us.

How does a person who does any of these "contested" things but doesn't force anyone else to do these things fail at loving others? (Although they do seem to get accused of forcing others by asking questions)
Click to expand...

John,

I've given the answer previously in this thread but you don't seem to want to consider that this is involved in being a loving person to others: Rom 14:21 (NIV), 'It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall'.

Oz
 
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