Son of God....Son of man

[whirlwind]

To me it says....man was made a LIVING soul. He was already a soul.

Not "was made" but "became."

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

1 + 1 = 2. Dust + God's breath = a Living soul. That doesn't mean man was already a soul it clearly means he "became" one.

He clearly became alive. Spiritually alive, a living soul, with God's breath.

[quote:8h93x2j6]Is that really what you see? It doesn't make sense. In our way of speaking it says...No man goes up except the same man that came down and it applies EVEN to our Savior.

Yes, that's exactly what I see. No man has ascended to heaven by way of resurrection as Jesus had. Jesus was prophesying what would happen at His death. Also, please note that "even" is bracketed or italicized and thus is not part of the original manuscript.

Note these other translations confirm my assessment:

NIV - No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven–the Son of Man.
ESV - No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
RSV - No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man.[/quote:8h93x2j6]


I should have noticed "even"...and didn't. It does make a difference. I understand what you are saying. I still know that our souls were from Him, existed in the previous age and will continue through the following age but that verse isn't about that topic. Thank you for pointing it out.

I continue to see it being about the Son of man, of which we are part...as we are the body of Christ. When we are spiritually born with His breath of life we are in heaven. We are with Him. He lives and walks in us. We are one. We too are the sons of God, sons of man.

[quote:8h93x2j6]I don't know diddly squat about Mormons

Evidently.

but I will ask...do they believe in God?

Sure. So do Buddist.

Do they believe in the Son?

Yes, as a created being.

Are all of their beliefs unbiblical?

Some.

How about Catholics?

Rooted in paganism.

How about Protestants?

Same thing. [/quote:8h93x2j6]


Yes they are but the point is...all of their beliefs aren't wrong. So, if I understand something and it is also the same belief as one of the above mentioned does it mean it is wrong? Of course not. So why argue what is being put forward by saying....Mormons believe that or you got that from so and so?

[quote:8h93x2j6] Because the Catholics bow to Mary are they wrong about everything? Because the Baptist teach rapture are they wrong about everything? If I am "spouting unbiblical doctrine" then.....PROVE IT with His Word without trying to fit me into some religious sect.[/b]

I have proven it with the word. There are -zero- scriptures that suggest that man floats off to heaven without his body upon death. None.

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

See Job 14:10-15.[/quote:8h93x2j6]


His flesh body is gone forever. His spiritual body, his soul with his spirit, is HIS BODY. His true body.

Take your example of Psalms. It tells us his breath goes forth but he returns to earth. His flesh body goes to dust as it was and his breath, his spirit goeth forth. Where does it goeth forth to?

• Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it

.

Our spirit, as you yourself pointed out, is not disembodied. It is part and parcel of our soul. We return to God.

Concerning your Job quote....I'll have to study it and reply later when I have some free time at work.

[quote:8h93x2j6]It is not!

• Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, AND the spirit of GOD is in my nostrils;

The breath is in him AND the spirit is in his nostrils. It is not a comparison but a decided difference in breath and spirit[/b]. :naughty

Let's try again:

Again the NIV - as long as I have life within me, the breath of God in my nostrils,

The word "and" is not used in the original Hebrew. Thus we can see that Job is comparing the breath that is in him to to the Spirit of God being in his nostrils. And what to nostrils do? They breath air. Thus it is clear that the air is being compared to God's breath. Simple stuff.[/quote:8h93x2j6]


You are comparing The Spirit of God to the air we breath. Not so simple at all. Everyone living in flesh breaths air. Everyone spiritually alive breaths air and has His Spirit.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

You missed the point RND your talking about hte wrong word.......

Ok im alot better with the Hebrew but lets look at this text and I usally dont take it here.....ok,,,,

13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];

o de agroV estin o kosmoV to de kalon sperma outoi eisin oi uioi thV basileiaV ta de zizania eisin oi uioi tou ponhrou

13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

o de ecqroV o speiraV auta estin o diaboloV o de qerismoV sunteleia tou aiwnoV estin oi de qeristai aggeloi eisin

Ok now the word "seed" is found in in verse 38,,,,,,

the word is "ÃÀέÃÂμα" meaning sperm,sperma .....What you have done was go down to the next verse (verse 39)

and take the word "spiero" (ÃÀείÃÂαÂ) ὠδὲ á¼ÂÇθÃÂὸ ὠÃÀείÃÂα αá½ÂÃ„ά á¼ÂÃĀιν ὠδιάβολοÂ, ὠδὲ θεÃÂιÃμὸ ÃÆ’Ã…νÄέλεια αἰῶνο á¼ÂÃĀιν. οἱ δὲ θεÃÂιÃĀαὶ ἄγγελοι εἰÃιν.

and try to stick it in verse 38......

BUt the scripture has already told us we are talking about (children) and thats why you find the word (sperma) in verse 38 because thats how you (sow) (children) with (sperma) or (sprem)

SO no need to change anything here,,,,Christ is telling us that the wicked one (satan) has seed (children) that came from the wicked ones (satans) sperma......

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. ALl freaking literal............

Now I ask again do we really need the link.............
:shades

 

[RND]

You missed the point RND your talking about hte wrong word.......

Ok im alot better with the Hebrew but lets look at this text and I usally dont take it here.....ok,,,,

13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];

o de agroV estin o kosmoV to de kalon sperma outoi eisin oi uioi thV basileiaV ta de zizania eisin oi uioi tou ponhrou

13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

o de ecqroV o speiraV auta estin o diaboloV o de qerismoV sunteleia tou aiwnoV estin oi de qeristai aggeloi eisin

Ok now the word "seed" is found in in verse 38,,,,,,

the word is "ÃÀέÃÂμα" meaning sperm,sperma .....What you have done was go down to the next verse (verse 39)

and take the word "spiero" (ÃÀείÃÂαÂ) ὠδὲ á¼ÂÇθÃÂὸ ὠÃÀείÃÂα αá½ÂÃ„ά á¼ÂÃĀιν ὠδιάβολοÂ, ὠδὲ θεÃÂιÃμὸ ÃÆ’Ã…νÄέλεια αἰῶνο á¼ÂÃĀιν. οἱ δὲ θεÃÂιÃĀαὶ ἄγγελοι εἰÃιν.

and try to stick it in verse 38......

BUt the scripture has already told us we are talking about (children) and thats why you find the word (sperma) in verse 38 because thats how you (sow) (children) with (sperma) or (sprem)

SO no need to change anything here,,,,Christ is telling us that the wicked one (satan) has seed (children) that came from the wicked ones (satans) sperma......

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. ALl freaking literal............

Now I ask again do we really need the link.............
:shades

Nightmare, I think one of the problems of entering into a conversation between two posters is that the gist of the discussion is sometimes "lost" on the one entering in between. The point I am making is that whirlwind associated Matthew 13:38-39 as the devil having sex with man and so the "seed" being sowed was done sexually. By pointing out that "sowed" in this case has to do with the casting of seed as a farmer would and not casting seed in a sexual manner I was attempting to get whirlwind off this notion that the devil had sex with Eve.

posting.php?mode=quote&f=14&p=503622#pr503340

Please note nighmare that "sperma" is used only in connection with the seed of the children of the kingdom - which would be God's children. So, in a sense you are right. By understanding the point I was attempting to make it would make the link to understanding the word "sowed" unnecessary.

 

[whirlwind]

Well good...I'm glad it's so simple to digest. :D

The word speiro is associated with casting seed as a farmer. That word is NOT associated with seed as used in Matthew 13:38-39.

Yes it is. Follow along. BTW, I have included the necessary links to prove my point.

Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowedthem is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Spiero = probably strengthened from spaw - spao 4685 (through the idea of extending); to scatter, i.e. sow (literally or figuratively):--sow(- er), receive seed.

What does spawn mean? Does a farmer "spawn" seed in his garden? Would children be the result of a seed of wheat, or of a seed or corn?

[quote:1949823z]I'm not saying we don't have a body. Our soul is our body.

I'm confused. In just the most recent post of yours you asked, "How do you expect a soul, a spiritual thing to decompose? Flesh decomposes....not our soul." The Bible clearly states that our bodies are in fact "living souls" that return to dust (decompose) at death. You seem to have created a massive hole for yourself that requires extradition. [/quote:1949823z]


I will again say....The Bible DOES NOT say our bodies are living souls. It says that we became a living soul when He breathed into our nostrils. Flesh turns to dust, not our soul.

[quote:1949823z]We are angels and angels have bodies.

Men are not angels. Angels neither marry, nor are given in marriage. [/quote:1949823z]


In the resurrection they don't.

[quote:1949823z] They eat, sit, walk, talk, etc. They are us. You are still seeing a spirit as some type of ghostly apparition. Think angelic being.[/b]

Again, they're are no verses that compare a living breathing man as being the substance of an angel. This is surely unscriptural nonsense. I would propose adding a verse or two that conclusively states that man is like heavenly angels.

With almost impatient eagerness the angels wait for our co-operation; for man must be the channel to communicate with man. And when we give ourselves to Christ in whole-hearted devotion, angels rejoice that they may speak through our voices to reveal God's love.--The Desire of Ages, p. 297

Those who in the strength of Christ overcome the great enemy of God and man, will occupy a position in the heavenly courts above angels who have never fallen. -- S.D.A. Bible Commentary Vol. 6, page 1113[/quote:1949823z]


From a previous post I wrote.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The definition of an angel is...

• Angel ~ #4397 to despatch as a deputy; a messenger, spec. of God, i.e. an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher): - ambassador, angel, king, messenger

.

That gives a definition of what they do...their role, but what are they? The Lord and two angels visited Abram and then....went on to see Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah.

• Genesis 18:1-3 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, "My LORD, if now I have found favour in Thy sight, pass not away, I pray Thee fromThy servant:
  
  18:4-5 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant." And they said, "So do, as thou hast said."
  
  18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
  
  18:22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD,
  
  19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; (3) And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

We read of "angel's food" in [Psalms 78:25] and also learn that Christ ate after His resurrection.

Another interesting fact we are given above is that Lot "bowed himself" to the two angels. This is out of the ordinary for usually when a flesh man does that they are instructed otherwise. Abram bowed but the Lord was with them...here it was just the two angels. An example of this is shown below.

• Revelation 22:8-9 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, "See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God."
  
  Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, "See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Other Scripture that tells us about angels are....

• Revelation 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
  
  Acts 1:9-10 And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
  
  Acts 12:13-15 And as Peter knocked at the door of the gate, a damsel came to hearken, named Rhoda. And when she knew Peter's voice, she opened not the gate for gladness, but ran in, and told how Peter stood before the gate. And they said unto her, "Thou art mad." But she constantly affirmed that it was even so. Then said they, "It is his angel."

Wings and halos? I couldn't find any mention of them. What we are being shown is that they are us...we are them. One in flesh and one in spirit...just as we will be at the end of our flesh life.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Was that "unscriptural nonsense?" Were those enough verses to conclusively state that man and angels are the same things? The difference is just a matter of who is wearing flesh at the time.

 

[RND]

What does spawn mean? Does a farmer "spawn" seed in his garden? Would children be the result of a seed of wheat, or of a seed or corn?

Spawn means to:

spawn
  /spÉâ€n/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [spawn] Show IPA ,
Use Spawn in a Sentence
See web results for Spawn
See images of Spawn
–noun
1. Zoology. the mass of eggs deposited by fishes, amphibians, mollusks, crustaceans, etc.
2. Mycology. the mycelium of mushrooms, esp. of the species grown for the market.
3. a swarming brood; numerous progeny.
4. (used with a singular or plural verb) any person or thing regarded as the offspring of some stock, idea, etc.

The term sowed means to scatter or to cast. Nowhere in Matthew 13:13-39 is the word or reference to "spawn or spawning" used.

Try again.

I will again say....The Bible DOES NOT say our bodies are living souls. It says that we became a living soul when He breathed into our nostrils. Flesh turns to dust, not our soul.

Yes, it clearly does.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

[quote:c8mrpdth][quote:c8mrpdth]We are angels and angels have bodies.

Men are not angels. Angels neither marry, nor are given in marriage. [/quote:c8mrpdth]


In the resurrection they don't. [/quote:c8mrpdth] That's right. Men and women, in the resurrection, neither marry nor are given in marriage - just like the angels. Thus, since the angels are created beings in heaven they were never given the ability to reproduce.

From a previous post I wrote


Was that "unscriptural nonsense?" Were those enough verses to conclusively state that man and angels are the same things? The difference is just a matter of who is wearing flesh at the time.

The unscriptural nonsense I was referring to was your insistence in saying men are angels and that angels have sex. Both notions are untrue and unbiblical. It's classic Mormonism. Sorry.

 

[RND]

To me it says....man was made a LIVING soul. He was already a soul.

Not "was made" but "became."

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

1 + 1 = 2. Dust + God's breath = a Living soul. That doesn't mean man was already a soul it clearly means he "became" one.

He clearly became alive. Spiritually alive, a living soul, with God's breath.

Right, became alive. Not given a soul from heaven.

I should have noticed "even"...and didn't. It does make a difference. I understand what you are saying. I still know that our souls were from Him, existed in the previous age and will continue through the following age but that verse isn't about that topic. Thank you for pointing it out.

I continue to see it being about the Son of man, of which we are part...as we are the body of Christ. When we are spiritually born with His breath of life we are in heaven. We are with Him. He lives and walks in us. We are one. We too are the sons of God, sons of man.

That fact doesn't change the fact that we will die, spend time in the dust of the earth to be resurrected as He was upon His return.

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

You are comparing The Spirit of God to the air we breath. [/quote] Yes, that's correct, just like the Bible does.

Not so simple at all. Everyone living in flesh breaths air. Everyone spiritually alive breaths air and has His Spirit.

Everyone living on earth is a creation of God. He made the earth and everything in it, It's all His. Everything belongs to Him. Whether or not people "breathe" from the atmosphere of heaven and have the Holy Spirit abiding with them does not change the fact that every living thing on earth has the Spirit of God, His breath, in their lungs.

 

[whirlwind]

I have proven it with the word. There are -zero- scriptures that suggest that man floats off to heaven without his body upon death. None.



See Job 14:10-15.

I finally have an opportunity to spend time with the quote you gave.

• Job 14:10-12 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

Man does "wasteth away." Man's flesh decomposes and returns to dust. His body will never again riseth or awaken. It is finished!

• 14:13-15 O that Thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that Thou wouldest keep me secret until Thy wrath be past, that Thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer Thee: Thou wilt have a desire to the work of Thine hands.

When a man dies he will not live in his corruptible flesh body ever again. His "change" will come when He calls. When you read farther into that passage we see the separation of flesh body and our soul.

• 14:22 But his flesh upon him shall have pain, and his soul within him shall mourn."

 

[NIGHTMARE]

You missed the point RND your talking about hte wrong word.......

Ok im alot better with the Hebrew but lets look at this text and I usally dont take it here.....ok,,,,

13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];

o de agroV estin o kosmoV to de kalon sperma outoi eisin oi uioi thV basileiaV ta de zizania eisin oi uioi tou ponhrou

13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

o de ecqroV o speiraV auta estin o diaboloV o de qerismoV sunteleia tou aiwnoV estin oi de qeristai aggeloi eisin

Ok now the word "seed" is found in in verse 38,,,,,,

the word is "ÃÀέÃÂμα" meaning sperm,sperma .....What you have done was go down to the next verse (verse 39)

and take the word "spiero" (ÃÀείÃÂαÂ) ὠδὲ á¼ÂÇθÃÂὸ ὠÃÀείÃÂα αá½ÂÃ„ά á¼ÂÃĀιν ὠδιάβολοÂ, ὠδὲ θεÃÂιÃμὸ ÃÆ’Ã…νÄέλεια αἰῶνο á¼ÂÃĀιν. οἱ δὲ θεÃÂιÃĀαὶ ἄγγελοι εἰÃιν.

and try to stick it in verse 38......

BUt the scripture has already told us we are talking about (children) and thats why you find the word (sperma) in verse 38 because thats how you (sow) (children) with (sperma) or (sprem)

SO no need to change anything here,,,,Christ is telling us that the wicked one (satan) has seed (children) that came from the wicked ones (satans) sperma......

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. ALl freaking literal............

Now I ask again do we really need the link.............
:shades

Nightmare, I think one of the problems of entering into a conversation between two posters is that the gist of the discussion is sometimes "lost" on the one entering in between. The point I am making is that whirlwind associated Matthew 13:38-39 as the devil having sex with man and so the "seed" being sowed was done sexually. By pointing out that "sowed" in this case has to do with the casting of seed as a farmer would and not casting seed in a sexual manner I was attempting to get whirlwind off this notion that the devil had sex with Eve.

posting.php?mode=quote&f=14&p=503622#pr503340

Please note nighmare that "sperma" is used only in connection with the seed of the children of the kingdom - which would be God's children. So, in a sense you are right. By understanding the point I was attempting to make it would make the link to understanding the word "sowed" unnecessary.

The point I am making is that whirlwind associated Matthew 13:38-39 as the devil having sex with man and so the "seed" being sowed was done sexually. By pointing out that "sowed" in this case has to do with the casting of seed as a farmer would and not casting seed in a sexual manner I was attempting to get whirlwind off this notion that the devil had sex with Eve.

Good luck,,your going to need it.......

But believe me the "gist" has you say as not been lost.....So allow me to make it simple....

Satan put "zirmah" "sperma" "sperm" into Eve...SO when see produced a tare (Cain) came up with the wheat (Abel)....SO when one does not understand these things it becomes evident the same one does not understand John 8:44 Gen chp 3 Gen chp 4 Jeremiah 24 and a long list .......But importantly GENESIS 3.....

 

[whirlwind]

Spawn means to:

spawn
  /spÉâ€n/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [spawn] Show IPA ,
Use Spawn in a Sentence
See web results for Spawn
See images of Spawn
–noun
1. Zoology. the mass of eggs deposited by fishes, amphibians, mollusks, crustaceans, etc.
2. Mycology. the mycelium of mushrooms, esp. of the species grown for the market.
3. a swarming brood; numerous progeny.
4. (used with a singular or plural verb) any person or thing regarded as the offspring of some stock, idea, etc.

The term sowed means to scatter or to cast. Nowhere in Matthew 13:13-39 is the word or reference to "spawn or spawning" used.

It was you that used it...not me. Spawn does not mean to scatter seed as in gardening. It has to do with offspring. Matthew 13:38-39 is about literal children, not corn. Jesus was taking the blinders off and explaining to His disciples instead of speaking in parables. We are to understand what He is saying.

Try again.

Try what?






If you believe your soul dies then go ahead. As far as the angels reproducing...what about Genesis 6 and Jude 6? Was that just a big lie?

The unscriptural nonsense I was referring to was your insistence in saying men are angels and that angels have sex. Both notions are untrue and unbiblical. It's classic Mormonism. Sorry

.


Here we go with name calling again. Of course angels had sex. It is written. Of course men were and will again be angels. What do you think all those verses were about?

 

[NIGHTMARE]

The problem with your thinking RND is that you have erased a big chunk of the word.....

God made all souls,,,,satans also,,,,after satan rebeled God decided to place man the souls into flesh bodys and have us be bore of woman into the earth to see who we would serve....

So God created mankind and then formed Adam and made Eve so Christ could be born through them...

See the whole reason we are in this flesh age is because of what happened in the first age when we were all in spiritual bodys......O how ever will you explain scriptures like this

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

The unscriptural nonsense I was referring to was your insistence in saying men are angels and that angels have sex. Both notions are untrue and unbiblical. It's classic Mormonism. Sorry

I know your a better student then that

1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

 

[RND]

Good luck,,your going to need it.......

Thank you nightmare but luck has nothing to do with the Christian life. It's a pagan belief.

But believe me the "gist" has you say as not been lost.....So allow me to make it simple....

Satan put "zirmah" "sperma" "sperm" into Eve...

Nope. The word zirmah (issue) is used only twice in scripture and that is in the same verse and it refers to the emissions of a horse, not Satan

Eze 23:20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh [is as] the flesh of asses, and whose issue [is like] the issue of horses.

Eze 23:20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

SO when see produced a tare (Cain) came up with the wheat (Abel)....

nightmare, there is nothing in scripture to suggest that Satan had sex with Eve.

SO when one does not understand these things it becomes evident the same one does not understand John 8:44 Gen chp 3 Gen chp 4 Jeremiah 24 and a long list .......But importantly GENESIS 3.....

I'm sorry but the whole "serpent seed" mess is just that, a mess. BTW, what is Satan the father of? "When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." He is the father of lies.

 

[RND]

I know your a better student then that

You are right, I'm a much better student than that! Genesis 6 has nothing to do with angels having sex with women. It has everything to do with the sons of Seth (the sons of God) intermarrying pagan women (the daughters of Cain).

First, let’s identify the Sons of God. There are some people – there have been even Bible translations, and that’s what caused a lot of the problem, not translations but paraphrase Bibles, that say these Sons of God are Heavenly Beings or Angels that had intimate relations with human women.

Now if we let the Bible interpret itself, you notice for one thing that when Luke does the chronology of Jesus in Luke chapter 3 (38) and he says, ‘And Enos was the son of Seth, who was the son of Adam, who was the son of God.’ Adam is called the son of God. Then you go to 1 John chapter 3 verse 1 and it says, ‘Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us that we should be called sons of God.’ All right so here it’s telling us two times the sons of God are people; but they’re committed people, people committed to the Lord.

After Cain killed Abel, Adam and Eve had another son named Seth. And Seth, it says, feared the Lord. Seth and his descendents were children of God. Cain was carnal Enos. That means he was a mortal man. He did not have everlasting life. As long as they remained separate, the truth of God was preserved; but when the sons of God began to marry – the children of Seth began to intermarry with the daughters of Cain – then that distinction, that holiness, it evaporated. That’s why the next verse says God said My Spirit will not always strive with man. He’s got 120 years before the flood. And so the sons of God were the descendents of Seth that were true to the Lord. They still offered sacrifice to God. The daughters of men were the daughters of Cain’s descendents who had not the knowledge of God preserved.

 

[RND]

Seth was of more noble stature than Cain or Abel, and resembled Adam more than any of his other sons. The descendants of Seth had separated themselves from the wicked descendants of Cain. They cherished the knowledge of God's will, while the ungodly race of Cain had no respect for God and his sacred commandments. But when men multiplied upon the earth, the descendants of Seth saw that the daughters of the descendants of Cain were very beautiful, and they departed from God and displeased him by taking wives as they chose of the idolatrous race of Cain. (Poster's note: Isn't that always the case? Satan always finds a way to separate men from God and he usually does this by giving men things that feed their appetite. Lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and the pride of life.)

Those who honored and feared to offend God, at first felt the curse but lightly; while those who turned from God and trampled upon his authority, felt the effects of the curse more heavily, especially in stature and nobleness of form. The descendants of Seth were called the sons of God--the descendants of Cain, the sons of men. As the sons of God mingled with the sons of men, they became corrupt, and by intermarriage with them, lost, through the influence of their wives, their peculiar, holy character, and united with the sons of Cain in their idolatry. Many cast aside the fear of God, and trampled upon his commandments. But there were a few that did righteousness, who feared and honored their Creator. Noah and his family were among the righteous few.

The wickedness of man was so great, and increased to such a fearful extent, that God repented that he had made man upon the earth; for he saw that the wickedness of man was great, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. -- The Spirit of Prophecy Volume One - Ellen G. White, page 66

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Good luck,,your going to need it.......

Thank you nightmare but luck has nothing to do with the Christian life. It's a pagan belief.

But believe me the "gist" has you say as not been lost.....So allow me to make it simple....

Satan put "zirmah" "sperma" "sperm" into Eve...

Nope. The word zirmah (issue) is used only twice in scripture and that is in the same verse and it refers to the emissions of a horse, not Satan

Eze 23:20 For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh [is as] the flesh of asses, and whose issue [is like] the issue of horses.

Eze 23:20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

[quote:3351kpab]SO when see produced a tare (Cain) came up with the wheat (Abel)....

nightmare, there is nothing in scripture to suggest that Satan had sex with Eve.

SO when one does not understand these things it becomes evident the same one does not understand John 8:44 Gen chp 3 Gen chp 4 Jeremiah 24 and a long list .......But importantly GENESIS 3.....

I'm sorry but the whole "serpent seed" mess is just that, a mess. BTW, what is Satan the father of? "When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." He is the father of lies.[/quote:3351kpab]

ha yeah there is,,,,its plenty of scriptures that say what happened in the Garden,,,but if you follow the fantasy world teachings,,go ahead,,,but if you want to dive into the truth then open up to Genesis 3 and prove me wrong.....

 

[RND]

ha yeah there is,,,,its plenty of scriptures that say what happened in the Garden,,

Where? Share some with us.

but if you follow the fantasy world teachings,,go ahead,,,

Brother nightmare, the fantasy teachings are those that insist that angels, who do not procreate because they do not marry, have sex with women.

but if you want to dive into the truth then open up to Genesis 3 and prove me wrong.....

I have no need to prove you wrong as much as you have a responsibility to prove yourself right. If you want to teach and believe Murrayism and his "serpent seed" doctrine then you should be prepared to defend it. The notion that Satan had sex with Eve and that Eve gave birth to the son of Adam and the son of Satan at the exact same time is the stuff of Hollywood movies, but it is not of God.

The term "sons of God" never ever refers to anyone or any thing other than those associated with God Himself.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

ha yeah there is,,,,its plenty of scriptures that say what happened in the Garden,,

Where? Share some with us.

but if you follow the fantasy world teachings,,go ahead,,,

Brother nightmare, the fantasy teachings are those that insist that angels, who do not procreate because they do not marry, have sex with women.

[quote:7ozoz7s2]but if you want to dive into the truth then open up to Genesis 3 and prove me wrong.....

I have no need to prove you wrong as much as you have a responsibility to prove yourself right. If you want to teach and believe Murrayism and his "serpent seed" doctrine then you should be prepared to defend it. The notion that Satan had sex with Eve and that Eve gave birth to the son of Adam and the son of Satan at the exact same time is the stuff of Hollywood movies, but it is not of God.[/quote:7ozoz7s2]

This is going to be easy,,,but if you dont understand that the fallen angels were on the earth a had relations with the daughters of adam in Genesis 6 then your just not ready to understand.....

So shall we start in Genesis 6 or 3 friend ?????

 

[RND]

This is going to be easy,,,

I would hope for your situation it is. Why all the delay and stalling?

but if you dont understand that the fallen angels were on the earth a had relations with the daughters of adam in Genesis 6 then your just not ready to understand.....

Then maybe you should be willing to teach me and show me where I'm mistaken?

Would you take this approach with a child that didn't understand how to clean their room by allowing it to remain unkept simply because they were not ready to understand?

So shall we start in Genesis 6 or 3 friend ?????

Wherever you're comfortable.

 

[RND]

For some time the two classes remained separate. The race of Cain, spreading from the place of their first settlement, dispersed over the plains and valleys where the children of Seth had dwelt; and the latter, in order to escape from their contaminating influence, withdrew to the mountains, and there made their home. So long as this separation continued, they maintained the worship of God in its purity. But in the lapse of time they ventured, little by little, to mingle with the inhabitants of the valleys. This association was productive of the worst results. "The sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair." The children of Seth, attracted by the beauty of the daughters of Cain's descendants, displeased the Lord by intermarrying with them. Many of the worshipers of God were beguiled into sin by the allurements that were now constantly before them, and they lost their peculiar, holy character. Mingling with the depraved, they became like them in spirit and in deeds; the restrictions of the seventh commandment were disregarded, "and they took them wives of all which they chose."

The children of Seth went "in the way of Cain" (Jude 11); they fixed their minds upon worldly prosperity and enjoyment and neglected the commandments of the Lord. Men "did not like to retain God in their knowledge;" they "became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened." Romans 1:21. Therefore "God gave them over to a mind void of judgment." Verse 28, margin. Sin spread abroad in the earth like a deadly leprosy.

For nearly a thousand years Adam lived among men, a witness to the results of sin. Faithfully he sought to stem the tide of evil. He had been commanded to instruct his posterity in the way of the Lord; and he carefully treasured what God had revealed to him, and repeated it to succeeding generations. To his children and children's children, to the ninth generation, he described man's holy and happy estate in Paradise, and repeated the history of his fall, telling them of the sufferings by which God had taught him the necessity of strict adherence to His law, and explaining to them the merciful provisions for their salvation. Yet there were but few who gave heed to his words. Often he was met with bitter reproaches for the sin that had brought such woe upon his posterity.

Adam's life was one of sorrow, humility, and contrition. When he left Eden, the thought that he must die thrilled him with horror. He was first made acquainted with the reality of death in the human family when Cain, his first-born son, became the murderer of his brother. Filled with the keenest remorse for his own sin, and doubly bereaved in the death of Abel and the rejection of Cain, Adam was bowed down with anguish. He witnessed the wide-spreading corruption that was finally to cause the destruction of the world by a flood; and though the sentence of death pronounced upon him by His Maker had at first appeared terrible, yet after beholding for nearly a thousand years the results of sin, he felt that it was merciful in God to bring to an end a life of suffering and sorrow.

Notwithstanding the wickedness of the antediluvian world, that age was not, as has often been supposed, an era of ignorance and barbarism. The people were granted the opportunity of reaching a high standard of moral and intellectual attainment. They possessed great physical and mental strength, and their advantages for acquiring both religious and scientific knowledge were unrivaled.

It is a mistake to suppose that because they lived to a great age their minds matured late; their mental powers were early developed, and those who cherished the fear of God and lived in harmony with His will continued to increase in knowledge and wisdom throughout their life. Could illustrious scholars of our time be placed in contrast with men of the same age who lived before the Flood, they would appear as greatly inferior in mental as in physical strength. As the years of man have decreased, and his physical strength has diminished, so his mental capacities have lessened. There are men who now apply themselves to study during a period of from twenty to fifty years, and the world is filled with admiration of their attainments. But how limited are these acquirements in comparison with those of men whose mental and physical powers were developing for centuries! -- Patriarchs and Prophets - Ellen G. White, page 84, Chapter Title: Seth and Enoch

 

[NIGHTMARE]

This is going to be easy,,,

I would hope for your situation it is. Why all the delay and stalling?

but if you dont understand that the fallen angels were on the earth a had relations with the daughters of adam in Genesis 6 then your just not ready to understand.....

Then maybe you should be willing to teach me and show me where I'm mistaken?

Would you take this approach with a child that didn't understand how to clean their room by allowing it to remain unkept simply because they were not ready to understand?

[quote:1jhtj0qm]So shall we start in Genesis 6 or 3 friend ?????

Wherever you're comfortable.[/quote:1jhtj0qm]

LOL I will post on it a little later,,,,I cant show you anything but I will allow the scripture to show you ur err if you allow the spirit to work......

Stalling???? Nah just making sure the post will be allowed to continue before I go taking out the manuscripts......Hit you in a bit...