Son of God....Son of man

[RND]

LOL I will post on it a little later,,,,I cant show you anything but I will allow the scripture to show you ur err if you allow the spirit to work......

If this was such a slam dunk argument for you I would suspect that you would have a ready argument available for educational purposes.

Stalling???? Nah just making sure the post will be aloowed to continue before I go taking out the manuscripts......It you a little email...

Has there been anyone here from staff to even remotely hint at putting the kibosh on this thread? Of course not because this is a relevant part of the topic. So yes, I do suspect that you are stalling a bit. Would you like me to post some things about the argument you wish to advance?

It goes something like this:

One verse which confounds many Christians is Genesis 4:1. "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord." It appears to them that Cain was the son of Adam. But a deeper study of the chapter gives us a better light to the verse. The word "knew" in verses 1 and 25 means having a positive knowledge of conception. Adam "knew" Eve twice only but brought forth three sons. Yet, when we study the rest of chapter 4, we realize that the very characters of Cain and Abel were extremely different. Therefore, one of them could not be a son of Adam.

All life, good or evil, comes from God (Isaiah 45:7; Acts 17:28). And Eve could not be more right when she said: "I have gotten a man from the Lord."

 

[RND]

More "Serpent seed" nonsense:

MOTHER OF ALL LIVING

Genesis 3:20 is a very interesting verse that most Christians overlook. A short statement such as this would have given many an understanding of the Serpent Seed doctrine if they had paid close attention to it and meditated on it. Unfortunately, many simply bypassed it.

"And Adam called his wife's name Eve;..."

The name was given only after the curse was pronounced. Before that, she was called Woman (Gen.2:23). Eve means life-giver; life giving; "because she was the mother of all living" (Gen.3:20b). She was the mother of Cain and Abel, her first two sons. But only one of them was of Adam. If they were both of Adam, Adam would not have named his wife Eve. The reason: the seed comes from the male. Rightly so, Adam should be called the father of all living. But Cain was not his seed; Adam did not father him. The Serpent did. Thus Adam was not the father of all living!

If Eve was the mother of all living what would one call the existence of Cain? Was Cain not a living person? Arguments such as the one above show how twisted the logic behind the proponents of the false "serpent seed" doctrine can really be.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

LOL I will post on it a little later,,,,I cant show you anything but I will allow the scripture to show you ur err if you allow the spirit to work......

If this was such a slam dunk argument for you I would suspect that you would have a ready argument available for educational purposes.

Stalling???? Nah just making sure the post will be aloowed to continue before I go taking out the manuscripts......It you a little email...

Has there been anyone here from staff to even remotely hint at putting the kibosh on this thread? Of course not because this is a relevant part of the topic. So yes, I do suspect that you are stalling a bit. Would you like me to post some things about the argument you wish to advance?

It goes something like this:

One verse which confounds many Christians is Genesis 4:1. "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord." It appears to them that Cain was the son of Adam. But a deeper study of the chapter gives us a better light to the verse. The word "knew" in verses 1 and 25 means having a positive knowledge of conception. Adam "knew" Eve twice only but brought forth three sons. Yet, when we study the rest of chapter 4, we realize that the very characters of Cain and Abel were extremely different. Therefore, one of them could not be a son of Adam.

All life, good or evil, comes from God (Isaiah 45:7; Acts 17:28). And Eve could not be more right when she said: "I have gotten a man from the Lord."

Ok we both know im not stalling,,,you can play that card if you like but anyone can read the prior post and see,,, this topic has come up before,,,letting you know that there has been much conversy over the things being and about to be discussed...clear

,,,if you dont see men as trees walking (mark 8:24)then were going to have problems before we even get started but,,,remember this aint a salvation issue,,,,Im sure long after this conversation we will both still believe in Jesus Christ....

Now,,,,,,, Im sure you believe that the tree of knowledge was just a regular tree with literal fruit correct?????

 

[RND]

Ok we both know im not stalling,,,you can play that card if you like but anyone can read the prior post and see,,, this topic has come up before,,,letting you know that there has been much conversy over the things being and about to be discussed...clear

Instead of pontificating you could have adavnced something to chew on by this point.

,,,if you dont see men as trees walking (mark 8:24)then were going to have problems before we even get started

How could a man blind from birth describe 1) men that he had never seen and 2) trees he had never seen? Are you really going to suggest that in Jesus' day men looked like trees. My dad (RIP) was from Texas and going rowing up I remember him describing a tall man once as "a tall drink of water" yet the man wasn't actually a drink of water.

but,,,remember this aint a salvation issue

You mean misrepresenting God isn't a salvation issue? I would suggest that God takes a dim view on having anyone misrepresent His nature and character. It kept Moshe from advancing past the Jordan.

,,,,Im sure long after this conversation we will both still believe in Jesus Christ....

I will always believe in Jesus Christ "in spite" of this conversation.

Now,,,,,,, Im sure you believe that the tree of knowledge was just a regular tree with literal fruit correct?????

Of course.

`ets = from '`atsah' (6095); a tree (from its firmness); hence, wood (plural sticks):--+ carpenter, gallows, helve, + pine, plank, staff, stalk, stick, stock, timber, tree, wood.

da`ath = from 'yada`' (3045); knowledge:--cunning, (ig-)norantly, know(-ledge), (un-)awares (wittingly).

Question: Did God give Adam a choice?

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Ok we both know im not stalling,,,you can play that card if you like but anyone can read the prior post and see,,, this topic has come up before,,,letting you know that there has been much conversy over the things being and about to be discussed...clear

Instead of pontificating you could have adavnced something to chew on by this point.

,,,if you dont see men as trees walking (mark 8:24)then were going to have problems before we even get started

How could a man blind from birth describe 1) men that he had never seen and 2) trees he had never seen? Are you really going to suggest that in Jesus' day men looked like trees. My dad (RIP) was from Texas and going rowing up I remember him describing a tall man once as "a tall drink of water" yet the man wasn't actually a drink of water.

[quote:lzht4da8]but,,,remember this aint a salvation issue

You mean misrepresenting God isn't a salvation issue? I would suggest that God takes a dim view on having anyone misrepresent His nature and character. It kept Moshe from advancing past the Jordan.

,,,,Im sure long after this conversation we will both still believe in Jesus Christ....

I will always believe in Jesus Christ "in spite" of this conversation.

Now,,,,,,, Im sure you believe that the tree of knowledge was just a regular tree with literal fruit correct?????

Of course.

`ets = from '`atsah' (6095); a tree (from its firmness); hence, wood (plural sticks):--+ carpenter, gallows, helve, + pine, plank, staff, stalk, stick, stock, timber, tree, wood.

da`ath = from 'yada`' (3045); knowledge:--cunning, (ig-)norantly, know(-ledge), (un-)awares (wittingly).

Question: Did God give Adam a choice?[/quote:lzht4da8]

With all do respect I dont think 'trees in the garden' can be classified under "et"

# 6086. It reads; "ets, ates; from # 6095, stock tree, timber, wood." .

LOOk at trees in the garden of Eden,,,,it reads, # 6095. in the Strong's.. dictionary; "Atsah, aw-tsaw, prime root, prop. to fasten (or make firm), i.e., to close (the eyes): shut." Under # 6095 Hebrew for trees in the garden) page 90 of Strong's Hebrew dictionary, the other reference to this is # 6096...

# 6096; "Atseh, aw-tseh, from 6095; the spine, (as giving firmness to the body):-backbone."......I believe that 6096 "atseh" is refering to the tree of knowledge......

But this tree is talked about other places in the word just like the tree of Life (Jesus Christ) hopefully you understand Jesus is the tree of life.....Only One gives life and it aint know piece of wood...

But "The tree of knowledge" is satan and other scriptures along with rendering the correct interpretation of "ets" "atsah" and "atseh" tells us this......Shall we allow the rest of the word to add some clarity?????

 

[RND]

With all do respect I dont think 'trees in the garden' can be classified under "et"

# 6086. It reads; "ets, ates; from # 6095, stock tree, timber, wood." .

LOOk at trees in the garden of Eden,,,,it reads, # 6095. in the Strong's.. dictionary; "Atsah, aw-tsaw, prime root, prop. to fasten (or make firm), i.e., to close (the eyes): shut." Under # 6095 Hebrew for trees in the garden) page 90 of Strong's Hebrew dictionary, the other reference to this is # 6096...

# 6096; "Atseh, aw-tseh, from 6095; the spine, (as giving firmness to the body):-backbone."......I believe that 6096 "atseh" is refering to the tree of knowledge......

Nighmare the word for trees is 'ets Strongs #6086

http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebibl ... .htm#S6086

These are all the verses where 'ets mean tree:

tree
Gen 1:11, Gen 1:12, Gen 1:29, Gen 1:29, Gen 2:9, Gen 2:9, Gen 2:9, Gen 2:16, Gen 2:17, Gen 3:1, Gen 3:3, Gen 3:6, Gen 3:6, Gen 3:11, Gen 3:12, Gen 3:17, Gen 3:22, Gen 3:24, Gen 18:4, Gen 18:8, Gen 40:19, Exo 9:25, Exo 10:5, Exo 15:25, Lev 27:30, Deu 12:2, Deu 19:5, Deu 20:19, Deu 21:22, Deu 21:23, Deu 22:6, Jos 8:29, Jos 8:29, 1 Ki 6:23, 1 Ki 6:31, 1 Ki 6:32, 1 Ki 6:33, 1 Ki 6:34, 1 Ki 14:23, 2 Ki 3:19, 2 Ki 16:4, 2 Ki 17:10, 2 Chr 3:5, 2 Chr 28:4, Est 2:23, Job 14:7, Job 19:10, Job 24:20, Psa 1:3, Prov 3:18, Prov 11:30, Prov 13:12, Prov 15:4, Eccl 11:3, Eccl 11:3, Isa 40:20, Isa 41:19, Isa 44:19, Isa 44:23, Isa 56:3, Isa 57:5, Isa 65:22, Jer 2:20, Jer 3:6, Jer 3:13, Jer 10:3, Jer 11:19, Jer 17:8, Eze 6:13, Eze 15:2, Eze 15:2, Eze 15:6, Eze 17:24, Eze 17:24, Eze 17:24, Eze 17:24, Eze 20:47, Eze 20:47, Eze 21:10, Eze 31:8, Eze 34:27, Eze 36:30, Joel 2:22, Hag 2:19

But this tree is talked about other places in the word just like the tree of Life (Jesus Christ) hopefully you understand Jesus is the tree of life.....Only One gives life and it aint know piece of wood...

You do understand the metaphorical use of Jesus being the tree of life right? Or are you suggesting that Eve pluckt fruit from Jesus and ate it?

But "The tree of knowledge" is satan and other scriptures along with rendering the correct interpretation of "ets" "atsah" and "atseh" tells us this......Shall we allow the rest of the word to add some clarity?????

There are no scriptures that equate the tree of knowledge as being Satan - none.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Instead of pontificating you could have adavnced something to chew on by this point.

I guess..........

How could a man blind from birth describe 1) men that he had never seen and 2) trees he had never seen? Are you really going to suggest that in Jesus' day men looked like trees. My dad (RIP) was from Texas and going rowing up I remember him describing a tall man once as "a tall drink of water" yet the man wasn't actually a drink of water.

Christ was teaching when he healed this man,,,it is a spiritual lesson "eyes to see" ...

No I dont believe people looked liked trees in Jesus day,,,,,,,and dont believe trees actually have hands to clap and give applause either....

Isaiah 55:12
For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

 

[RND]

Christ was teaching when he healed this man,,,it is a spiritual lesson "eyes to see" ...

All the lessons in the Bible are "spiritual" messages.

No I dont believe people looked liked trees in Jesus day,,,,,,,and dont believe trees actually have hands to clap and give applause either....

Isaiah 55:12
For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

If the rocks could cry out when the Messiah passed by why couldn't the trees clap and the mountains sing? Mountains of course represent the nations. What do you think the trees represent?

 

[NIGHTMARE]

With all do respect I dont think 'trees in the garden' can be classified under "et"

# 6086. It reads; "ets, ates; from # 6095, stock tree, timber, wood." .

LOOk at trees in the garden of Eden,,,,it reads, # 6095. in the Strong's.. dictionary; "Atsah, aw-tsaw, prime root, prop. to fasten (or make firm), i.e., to close (the eyes): shut." Under # 6095 Hebrew for trees in the garden) page 90 of Strong's Hebrew dictionary, the other reference to this is # 6096...

# 6096; "Atseh, aw-tseh, from 6095; the spine, (as giving firmness to the body):-backbone."......I believe that 6096 "atseh" is refering to the tree of knowledge......

Nighmare the word for trees is 'ets Strongs #6086

http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebibl ... .htm#S6086

These are all the verses where 'ets mean tree:

tree
Gen 1:11, Gen 1:12, Gen 1:29, Gen 1:29, Gen 2:9, Gen 2:9, Gen 2:9, Gen 2:16, Gen 2:17, Gen 3:1, Gen 3:3, Gen 3:6, Gen 3:6, Gen 3:11, Gen 3:12, Gen 3:17, Gen 3:22, Gen 3:24, Gen 18:4, Gen 18:8, Gen 40:19, Exo 9:25, Exo 10:5, Exo 15:25, Lev 27:30, Deu 12:2, Deu 19:5, Deu 20:19, Deu 21:22, Deu 21:23, Deu 22:6, Jos 8:29, Jos 8:29, 1 Ki 6:23, 1 Ki 6:31, 1 Ki 6:32, 1 Ki 6:33, 1 Ki 6:34, 1 Ki 14:23, 2 Ki 3:19, 2 Ki 16:4, 2 Ki 17:10, 2 Chr 3:5, 2 Chr 28:4, Est 2:23, Job 14:7, Job 19:10, Job 24:20, Psa 1:3, Prov 3:18, Prov 11:30, Prov 13:12, Prov 15:4, Eccl 11:3, Eccl 11:3, Isa 40:20, Isa 41:19, Isa 44:19, Isa 44:23, Isa 56:3, Isa 57:5, Isa 65:22, Jer 2:20, Jer 3:6, Jer 3:13, Jer 10:3, Jer 11:19, Jer 17:8, Eze 6:13, Eze 15:2, Eze 15:2, Eze 15:6, Eze 17:24, Eze 17:24, Eze 17:24, Eze 17:24, Eze 20:47, Eze 20:47, Eze 21:10, Eze 31:8, Eze 34:27, Eze 36:30, Joel 2:22, Hag 2:19

But this tree is talked about other places in the word just like the tree of Life (Jesus Christ) hopefully you understand Jesus is the tree of life.....Only One gives life and it aint know piece of wood...

You do understand the metaphorical use of Jesus being the tree of life right? Or are you suggesting that Eve pluckt fruit from Jesus and ate it?

[quote:1em1lyv8]But "The tree of knowledge" is satan and other scriptures along with rendering the correct interpretation of "ets" "atsah" and "atseh" tells us this......Shall we allow the rest of the word to add some clarity?????

There are no scriptures that equate the tree of knowledge as being Satan - none.[/quote:1em1lyv8]

You do understand the metaphorical use of Jesus being the tree of life right? Or are you suggesting that Eve pluckt fruit from Jesus and ate it?

I believe the tree of life is Jesus Christ,,,,I can call Him Emmanuel,,, The King of Kings,,,,the Lamb slain,,,,its still Jesus Christ......I dont understand what you mean????? Eve didnt "pluck" take anything at this point from the Tree of life (Jesus)........Tree of life is just another way to describe our Lord Jesus....

There are no scriptures that equate the tree of knowledge as being Satan - none.

[/quote]

Ezekiel 31:3 "Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the think boughs."

Have you researched this word "Assaryian"????? DO you understand this is satan we are beginning to discuss in this chp??????

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Christ was teaching when he healed this man,,,it is a spiritual lesson "eyes to see" ...

All the lessons in the Bible are "spiritual" messages.

No I dont believe people looked liked trees in Jesus day,,,,,,,and dont believe trees actually have hands to clap and give applause either....

Isaiah 55:12
For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

If the rocks could cry out when the Messiah passed by why couldn't the trees clap and the mountains sing? Mountains of course represent the nations. What do you think the trees represent?

All the lessons in the Bible are "spiritual" messages.

I agree :yes

What do you think the trees represent?

People.....I believe our backs kinda look like tree trunks,,,and I can see why are arms can be likened to branches......I dont believe my plum tree can envy my lemon tree....

Ezekiel 31:9 "I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him."

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Ezekiel 31:1 "And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the third month, in the first day of the month, that the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,"

Ezekiel 31:2 "Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; Whom art thou like in thy greatness?

Ezekiel 31:3 "Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the think boughs....

When studying the Hebrew you must always follow the subject of whats being discussed,,,article and particle aids in this....

The word "assyrian" has no article when we are dicussing Eygpts splender...The word "Assyrian" has been taken from the word "Ashshur"........The word "Ashshur was taken from "te'ashshur"...

note. You can find the same error in Ezekiel 27.....

In the Massoretico text the word is "te'ashshur" means "box cypress" "chesnut tree" a regular old tree...

SO wht is happening here in Ezekiel 31 is Ezekiel is about to tell us how this regular old tree (te'ashshur) tryed to become a cedar of lebanon.......

When Ezekiel goes on describing this tree it becomes very clear that this "te'ashshur" is satan....

Shall we look????

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Just from pure observation one can tell there is more then just as literal fruit,,and literal tree....

IF you stick 2 innocent naked people in a room one male and the other female,,,and they come out with there private areas covered,,,you mean to tell me,,,you would suspect they ate a piece of fruit ,,,and tryed to hide it by covering up?????? Come now,,, they covered there private areas,,,because if they had not,,, it would have been obvious they had just got finished using those private parts.....

Do you know why she used fig leaves????? if you understood the parable of the fig tree you would understand the mystery that has been kept secret since the foundation of the age...

For tose that understand satan,,,its easy,,,,,Satan knew Christ would be born thru Adam and Eve so He attacked the bloodline by seducing Eve,,,,this would make it impossible for Christ to be born through a child from satan Himself and Eve (Cain).....But Eve had twins so Christ would come thru Abel,,,but Abel was murdered and Seth (replacement) was born thus opening back up the bloodline to the Christ...

As time goes on you will see satan little helpers (fallen angels) have sex with the daughters of Adam (making Giants) attempting to destroy the bloodline again,,,,almost worked accept for a guy named Noah.....

Then they attempted again resulting in the Giants of Goliaths time......

 

[Caroline H]

Ok, disregarding all of the other false teachings in that post Nightmare, do you mean to say that two separate fathers can sire twins from one woman? If you knew biology you would know that is impossible. Do not read into Scripture what is not there, there are strict warnings about that in the Bible.

 

[whirlwind]

Ok, disregarding all of the other false teachings in that post Nightmare, do you mean to say that two separate fathers can sire twins from one woman? If you knew biology you would know that is impossible. Do not read into Scripture what is not there, there are strict warnings about that in the Bible.

There are fraternal twins and identical twins. Certainly there can be more than one father, or two separate times of conception, to fraternal twins. There are accounts of one woman giving birth to twins of different color. One was of an African American father and the other was Caucasian.

 

[Caroline H]

There are fraternal twins and identical twins. Certainly there can be more than one father, or two separate times of conception, to fraternal twins. There are accounts of one woman giving birth to twins of different color. One was of an African American father and the other was Caucasian.

That case was through invitro-fertilization, where they used two separate sperm donors. But you are right, although extreeeeeeeeeeeemly rare...it can happen. :nod

I just don't see how people read so much into Scripture things that aren't there. That is called eisegesis, and is NEVER the correct way of interpretation.

 

[whirlwind]

There are fraternal twins and identical twins. Certainly there can be more than one father, or two separate times of conception, to fraternal twins. There are accounts of one woman giving birth to twins of different color. One was of an African American father and the other was Caucasian.

That case was through invitro-fertilization, where they used two separate sperm donors. But you are right, although extreeeeeeeeeeeemly rare...it can happen. :nod

I just don't see how people read so much into Scripture things that aren't there. That is called eisegesis, and is NEVER the correct way of interpretation.

The case I read about wasn't invitro. I'm sure her husband wishes it had been. :yes

I agree with Nightmare. Cain is not the son of Adam.

 

[Vic C.]

These are some of the most ridiculous and speculative theories I've read in some time and just don't represent solid Biblical theology.

Topic locked pending Staff discussion.