Soul Sleep yes or no?

[LeviR]

Hip hop bing ba da boo do dee shoo do ba bing sho bi dee do bop.

Sounds good

 

[LeviR]

What’s wrong with America?


Whoopi Goldberg, Latisha James, Fani Willis, and Karine Jean-Pierre.

Happy birthday.

Oh, he needs to be kicked off this site. He’s a racist Hitler. He’s the devil and hates democracy.

 

[LeviR]

I was almost sucked in by that culture. I was looking for my place in this world. And they seemed cool.
Hip hop Bo Dee do bop.

 

[follower]

I don't think there will even be non-existence for anyone.

It's possible.
Remember the idols made of wood or gold ?
God says let those who worship the idols call on their idols to save them in the day of Judgment.
Of course, they cannot save anyone.
They are non-existent ,
and likely those who follow them will one day be non-existent also. Body and soul destroyed by fire.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Yep, The God of most Christians, where most are damned because he is just too good.

If they are going to be damned, they are not Christians.

It doesn't matter, but Cain didn't know right from wrong. I can't help it, if he didn't know any better.

What makes you think Cain didn't know good from evil ?
God has warned Cain of the outcome of sin in Gen 4:7, before Cain sinned.

All the pain, righteous people get from God is because they have to pick up the slack for others.

I don't agree.

 

[Hopeful 2]

It's possible.
Remember the idols made of wood or gold ?
God says let those who worship the idols call on their idols to save them in the day of Judgment.
Of course, they cannot save anyone.
They are non-existent ,
and likely those who follow them will one day be non-existent also. Body and soul destroyed by fire.

Please provide any scripture stating that.
On the contrary, it is written..."And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matt 25:46)

 

[follower]

Please provide any scripture stating that.
On the contrary, it is written..."And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matt 25:46)

Were you really not only unaware of this, but doubt this ?

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biblehub.com › isaiah › 57-13.htm

Isaiah 57:13 When you cry out, let your companies of idols deliver you ...​

Verse 13. - When thou criest, let thy companies deliver thee.Then, when she thus cries, let her mixture of gods (ver. 8), if they can, deliver her; they will fail utterly to do so.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Were you really not only unaware of this, but doubt this ?

Not for a second.

 

[reddogs]

I think I have seen this "soul sleep" issue gone over before, but I never so stridently.
I still cannot get my head around the concept of this being something so important.
It is almost as if there were no "soul sleep" available for these people then they don't want to see Jesus at all ?
For what reason is a sleep delay is so vitally important I just don't get ?
It does not even make any sense .
That we, at our very core , we are spirits just as God is a Spirit is an undeniable fact.
Spirits confined, restrained & held down by our flesh.
Decaying flesh that requires food, water, sleep.
All things that constrain and confine the spirit.
Dismiss the body and the spirit is subject to none of it .
Does a spirit have to be laying down in order to sleep, or can a spirit sleep comfortably in a seated position? lol
If they are side sleepers do most spirits prefer to sleep on their left or their right side ?

Jhn 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

Well, if you are going around as a ghost or speaking to the living or floating around at the beck and call of mediums, this is that.....Spiritual ism.

 

[reddogs]

It is obvious to anyone reading the passage you've cited in a natural, straightforward way that it is the body of Lazarus that is "sleeping." It lays in the grave in a position of repose, unresponsive to, and unaware of, what is going on around it, just like a person who is soundly asleep. Inasmuch as Lazarus was identified by his loved ones and friends by his unique physical form, associated inextricably with his body by them, it would have been perfectly natural for Christ to speak of Lazarus' corpse as Lazarus.

We know, though, that the figurative way Jesus spoke of Lazarus in this instance did not indicate that the soul of Lazarus was sleeping. Christ's own parable of the after-death experience of another Lazarus and a Rich Man deny such an idea:

Luke 16:22-24
22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried.
23 "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'

Here, the disembodied souls of two men exist consciously after death, speaking, seeing and feeling things entirely apart from their physical forms. "Ah, but this is a figurative, non-literal parable, an entirely imagined scenario," some with a vested interest in promoting soul sleep will say. Nothing about the parable indicates, though, that it is completely fictional. Why would Jesus, who never used entirely fictional circumstances/objects in any other of his parables to make his points, do so in this one? Why would he alter his usual approach with parables and teach truth by way of what is not true? Why would he tell this story knowing it was all false, that there was no Abraham's Bosom, no tormenting flames of hell? Again, Jesus never used an entirely fictional scenario in any of his other parables, drawing instead from common, everyday life the elements of his parables. And Jesus never hinted in the slightest that the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man was entirely imaginary. He doesn't tell his disciples later on that the parable was totally figurative and should be understood as such, explaining to them the symbolism of the story, as he did with some of his other parables. The disciples don't ask for an explanation, either, giving no indication that they understood the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man as imaginary and figurative. In light of all of these things, it is quite proper to take the parable, which defies the idea of soul sleep directly, as communicating the immediate reality of what follows the death of one's body.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8
6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord—
7 for we walk by faith, not by sight—
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

Paul here describes a one-or-the-other state of affairs without any intermediate, intervening condition of being (i.e. soul sleep). We are either "at home in the body" or "at home with the Lord"; there is no third "soul sleep" state Paul mentions here. This comports very well with Christ's parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man.



Because the story wasn't about Lazarus' experience of the afterlife. It was about Christ and his death-overcoming power:

John 11:25-27
25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
27 She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world."

This is the conclusion - and the main point - of the story of Lazarus's resurrection, which is entirely focused upon Jesus and the resurrection life found in him. Adding to this account details of what Lazarus experienced in the afterlife would have diluted, and distracted from, this point significantly. And so, we are given nothing of what Lazarus experienced on the far side of the grave. Besides, we have already been told by Christ what to expect when we die in his parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man.

So can God make a body, can He make a new eye or hand, of course He can so there is no need for a saint to come back to the grave to pick up a body or dust as it has become, but there is a reason for God to come pick up His saint(s) from the grave at the resurrection and take them to heaven to be with Him..

 

[Tenchi]

So can God make a body, can He make a new eye or hand, of course He can so there is no need for a saint to come back to the grave to pick up a body or dust as it has become, but there is a reason for God to come pick up His saint(s) from the grave at the resurrection and take them to heaven to be with Him..

But no saint returns with God to "pick up a body or dust as it has become." They return to be united to a glorified resurrected body, that is free of corruption, able to endure forever in God's eternal kingdom in the new heavens and earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.
14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.

Mark 12:26-27
26 "But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'?
27 "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken."

2 Corinthians 5:8
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Philippians 1:21-23
21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22 If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell.
23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.

Luke 23:42-43
42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"
43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

 

[follower]

there is a reason for God to come pick up His saint(s) from the grave at the resurrection and take them to heaven to be with Him..

Show this from Scripture if possible.

 

[reddogs]

But no saint returns with God to "pick up a body or dust as it has become." They return to be united to a glorified resurrected body, that is free of corruption, able to endure forever in God's eternal kingdom in the new heavens and earth.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope.
14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.

Mark 12:26-27
26 "But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'?
27 "He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken."

2 Corinthians 5:8
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Philippians 1:21-23
21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22 If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell.
23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.

Luke 23:42-43
42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"
43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Thus the resurrection of the saints here from the grave, where they will then receive the changes and go to their reward, the heavenly Kingdom with Christ..

 

[LeviR]

Thus the resurrection of the saints here from the grave, where they will then receive the changes and go to their reward, the heavenly Kingdom with Christ..

There seems to be confusion on what the words “dead” and “death” means.
If our understanding of what those words mean is incorrect then the entirety of Scripture will be misunderstood.

 

[reddogs]

There seems to be confusion on what the words “dead” and “death” means.
If our understanding of what those words mean is incorrect then the entirety of Scripture will be misunderstood.

Not if you read your Bible as it's consistent and clear..

 

[donadams]

2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Besides the holy apostolic church condemned “soul sleep” in the fifth lateran council!

 

[LeviR]

2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Besides the holy apostolic church condemned “soul sleep” in the fifth lateran council!

Why did Paul say we are confident and willing rather to be absent from the body?
It is because elsewhere he called the body a body of death.
To be absent from the body of death is to be present with the Lord at his coming.

1Th 2:19 - For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

I welcome with joy any and all condemnation to me from the RCC.

 

[JLB]

Soul sleep is the teaching that when a person dies, his soul "sleeps" or the denial of man's conscious existence between when he dies and the resurrection day. It's what is called the intermediate state of the believer, in which both the body and the soul lay rest in the ground and the phrase 'soul sleep' appears to have been popularized by John Calvin. In this condition, the person is not aware or conscious till he is made alive at the resurrection by Christ at the Second Coming.

So what does the Bible say at whether you lay in the grave in a non sentient state, awaiting Christ.

Let's look at the story of Lazarus who was raised up from the grave by Christ.
John 11:11-14 - These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. And then in verse 17 Jesus says of Lazarus: 17 Then when Jesus came, he found that he [Lazarus] had lain in the grave four days already.

We see that Jesus equated death to sleep and used the terms interchangeably; and in this story Lazarus has been dead for 4 days. Let's continue:
Verse 43-44: And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

Now, Lazarus had been dead for 4 days, if he had in fact gone to heaven (or hell) in any conscious form why is nothing told by Lazarus of this? Lazarus does not come back to life with any stories of where he was, what he saw, or anything. He doesn't talk about walking on streets of gold nor burning with fire. After being resurrected he does speak, and all he says is a simple acknowledgement of who was standing there with Jesus. So lets look at the whole Bible and see what we find.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


Asleep here refers to the dead in Christ.

Those “in Christ” when they die are referred to as asleep, since they will be resurrected from the dead at His coming.

When someone in Christ, they go to heaven to be with the Lord.


So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:6-8

• to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” Revelation 7:9-10




Another picture of this is found in Revelation at the return of Jesus Christ with the saints who have died and are present with Him in heaven.

Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. Revelation 19:7-8

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
Revelation 19:11-14




No soul sleep is not a biblical doctrine.

 

[donadams]

Why did Paul say we are confident and willing rather to be absent from the body?
It is because elsewhere he called the body a body of death.
To be absent from the body of death is to be present with the Lord at his coming.

1Th 2:19 - For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

I welcome with joy any and all condemnation to me from the RCC.

Matt 28:20 behold I am with you always!

 

[donadams]

Hebrews 12:1-3
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.