Bible Study Speculation: If Jesus had sinned

[protos]

I know that Jesus didn't sin. I know that it was impossible for Him to do so and that asking, "What if Jesus had sinned?" is as logical as asking, "What if circles are squares." However, I think it's interesting to ponder over the consequences for God to sin.

Any theories? Existence ends? No God?

 

[Silverchild79]

there is still a God, but we know he's no longer perfect and the idea of creation becomes exponentially scarier

 

[Guest]

I suppose this would open up a bigger question or set of questions:

1) CAN God sin?

2) COULD Jesus have sinned while in earthly form?

3) CAN Angels that did not rebel, can they sin?

Then again - why the need to speculate?

 

[Solo]

I suppose this would open up a bigger question or set of questions:

1) CAN God sin?

2) COULD Jesus have sinned while in earthly form?

3) CAN Angels that did not rebel, can they sin?

Then again - why the need to speculate?

1) CAN God sin? No.

2) COULD Jesus have sinned while in earthly form? No.

3) CAN Angels that did not rebel, can they sin? They can still rebel.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

God, being God, got to decide what is and is not sin.

You are right in that it does seem a bit silly.

 

[tim-from-pa]

I think this is a classic example of "Reductio ad absurdum". However, it is a good question/point.

I suppose that if Jesus sinned, he'd be the same as Adam and would have died and not resurrected at all, like the rest of the human race.

Given that, then the seed of God that produced Jesus would have died and God cannot die because He is life.

That's the difference between Adam and Jesus. Adam was created innocent and through his own self-effort would have had the Spirit had he taken the tree of Life (and indeed the incarnation). However, before he took it, the Spirit of Life was not yet in him, and therefore he could choose not to take it. On the other hand, Jesus "reversed" this. The Spirit was there first, and this results in total obedience.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

I think this is a classic example of "Reductio ad absurdum".

:-D

The follow up thread to this one: what if satan repented?

 

[jgredline]

There are many groups that ''teach'' Jesus could have sinned, among them are many of the Wesleyan churches....A friend of mine who teaches theology at APU and I had this conversation about a year ago and he asked me...Could Jesus have sinned? I said no...He asked why? I said, simply...Had Jesus sinned he would have at that time ceased being God and since he is God eternal, he could not have sinned....He then told me that for many years early on, he taught his students that Jesus could have sinned because he became totally man, but as he went through the book of Romans word by word, he realized he was wrong and so then, not only did he change his mind on that, he went and looked up as many of his students as he could find and he corrected his view....
This he said was about 20 years ago...

So back to OP, this is a good question and something that should be spoken about and when one looks, there are many folks who believe Jesus could have sinned....What would have happened if he did sin? Then the folks who claim Jesus is not God would have reason to say Jesus is not God, but then Jesus would not have been a Saviour either.....

 

[Solo]

Scripture reveals that the LORD JEHOVAH GOD JESUS CHRIST could not sin, and those that are born again, born of LORD JEHOVAH GOD, the New Creatire. cannot sin; only the flesh of the sinful creature, the OLD MAN in Adam only sins.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9

 

[tim-from-pa]

Scripture reveals that the LORD JEHOVAH GOD JESUS CHRIST could not sin, and those that are born again, born of LORD JEHOVAH GOD, the New Creatire. cannot sin; only the flesh of the sinful creature, the OLD MAN in Adam only sins.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9

Excellent scripture Solo. I think that answers the question point blank. I was thinking along those lines last night before I hit the sack after I posted and wondered if I could bring that up, but then I was too tired to post by then.

 

[cyberjosh]

All I can say is that if Jesus had submitted to any of Satan's proposals or temptations in the desert we would be in much trouble. But I believe his righteous character forbid him from even entertaining the ideas, and he was saturated in the Word of God, and said that he lived off of every word that proceeded from the mouth of the Lord, so in effect Satan was tempting God himself since Jesus could not do anything apart from the Father.

~Josh

 

[Imagican]

Guys and gals,

IF Jesus COULD NOT have sinned, He could NOT have "OVERCOME" sin. For ONE CANNOT OVERCOME SOMETHING THAT THEY CANNOT DO.

I can't even believe that this would be a 'question'. It would be NO different than asking IS an 'ANGEL' can sin. The ONLY way one could even 'think up' something of this nature is through 'false doctrine'.

YOU would tell others that Jesus COULD NOT have sinned BECAUSE He IS God. And in this same dimension you would state that Satan did NOT tempt Christ but INSTEAD tempted God Himself. RIDICULOUS.

Jesus Christ WAS a MAN. REGARDLESS of the issue of deity, He was STILL a MAN. Born INTO sin like ANY OTHER. Otherwise His OVERCOMING sin would have meant NOTHING. One CANNOT be 'tempted' IF one IS UN-TEMPTABLE. And one cannot be 'tempted' IF one is INCAPABLE of SIN.

And we SEE that Christ WAS 'tempted'. ASKING God to 'take this cup from me' is a PURE example of TEMPTATION'. He did NOT submit to the temptation, but we SEE that He was TEMPTED to 'avoid' the death that He faced and it was ONLY through the POWER OF GOD that He was able to overcome this temptation.

Satan tempted Christ THREE times in the desert. Three times Christ OVERCAME temptation.

And there are those that TRULY believe that Christ could NOT have simply Lied about His identity? Or taken Satan UP on his offer? Do you NOT realize what you TAKE FROM Christ when you defend such a belief that He could NOT have sinned?

And 'taking up' this sort of 'belief', one MUST DENY all that is offered that points in an absolute OPPOSITE direction. For ALL that we have in The Word offering 'temptation' of Christ MUST be VOIDED out in order to 'believe' that Christ could NOT have sinned.

One MUST either TOTALLY abandon ANY reasoning concerning Christ's temptation, or simply MAKE UP 'some other truth' in their 'own minds'.

For the TRUTH is that Christ WAS a 'man'. With ALL the faculties of EVERY MAN. Capable of FREE WILL like ANY OTHER MAN. The DIFFERENCE in Christ and 'other men' lies NOT in His ability or INABILITY to SIN, it lies in the FACT that Christ KNEW His Father and WAS capable of 'overcoming'. Christ IS an entity that KNEW heaven BEFORE taking on the 'flesh'. And KNEW that upon His completion of His 'assignment', He WOULD be 'BACK AT THE FATHER'S SIDE'. THAT is HOW He was ABLE to be 'a man' and OVERCOME that which WE are UNABLE. Unlike MOST of US, He KNEW the TRUTH and THAT was ENOUGH to DO what it was that HE HAD TO DO. But He STILL had choice. Otherwise there would have been NO NEED to 'overcome'.

And IF what I offer HERE is NOT TRUTH, then the subject is MUTE. There is NO REASON to even speculate on a subject that CANNOT EXIST. Much like the silly question; Can God create a ROCK that is TOO heavy for Him to lift'. RIDICULOUS and ONLY able to be 'created' by a 'carnal' mind and heart.

So, that leaves ME to wonder HOW this subject could even generate a SINGLE reply UNLESS, there IS some spark of 'understanding' in those that have replied. Hopefully this IS the case and there IS the possibility that a 'more perfect' understanding IS obtainable by those that are TRULY seeking to KNOW.

MEC

 

[Solo]

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9

 

[Guest]

Guys and gals,

IF Jesus COULD NOT have sinned, He could NOT have "OVERCOME" sin. For ONE CANNOT OVERCOME SOMETHING THAT THEY CANNOT DO.

I can't even believe that this would be a 'question'. It would be NO different than asking IS an 'ANGEL' can sin. The ONLY way one could even 'think up' something of this nature is through 'false doctrine'.

YOU would tell others that Jesus COULD NOT have sinned BECAUSE He IS God. And in this same dimension you would state that Satan did NOT tempt Christ but INSTEAD tempted God Himself. RIDICULOUS.

Jesus Christ WAS a MAN. REGARDLESS of the issue of deity, He was STILL a MAN. Born INTO sin like ANY OTHER. Otherwise His OVERCOMING sin would have meant NOTHING. One CANNOT be 'tempted' IF one IS UN-TEMPTABLE. And one cannot be 'tempted' IF one is INCAPABLE of SIN.

And we SEE that Christ WAS 'tempted'. ASKING God to 'take this cup from me' is a PURE example of TEMPTATION'. He did NOT submit to the temptation, but we SEE that He was TEMPTED to 'avoid' the death that He faced and it was ONLY through the POWER OF GOD that He was able to overcome this temptation.

Satan tempted Christ THREE times in the desert. Three times Christ OVERCAME temptation.

And there are those that TRULY believe that Christ could NOT have simply Lied about His identity? Or taken Satan UP on his offer? Do you NOT realize what you TAKE FROM Christ when you defend such a belief that He could NOT have sinned?

And 'taking up' this sort of 'belief', one MUST DENY all that is offered that points in an absolute OPPOSITE direction. For ALL that we have in The Word offering 'temptation' of Christ MUST be VOIDED out in order to 'believe' that Christ could NOT have sinned.

One MUST either TOTALLY abandon ANY reasoning concerning Christ's temptation, or simply MAKE UP 'some other truth' in their 'own minds'.

For the TRUTH is that Christ WAS a 'man'. With ALL the faculties of EVERY MAN. Capable of FREE WILL like ANY OTHER MAN. The DIFFERENCE in Christ and 'other men' lies NOT in His ability or INABILITY to SIN, it lies in the FACT that Christ KNEW His Father and WAS capable of 'overcoming'. Christ IS an entity that KNEW heaven BEFORE taking on the 'flesh'. And KNEW that upon His completion of His 'assignment', He WOULD be 'BACK AT THE FATHER'S SIDE'. THAT is HOW He was ABLE to be 'a man' and OVERCOME that which WE are UNABLE. Unlike MOST of US, He KNEW the TRUTH and THAT was ENOUGH to DO what it was that HE HAD TO DO. But He STILL had choice. Otherwise there would have been NO NEED to 'overcome'.

And IF what I offer HERE is NOT TRUTH, then the subject is MUTE. There is NO REASON to even speculate on a subject that CANNOT EXIST. Much like the silly question; Can God create a ROCK that is TOO heavy for Him to lift'. RIDICULOUS and ONLY able to be 'created' by a 'carnal' mind and heart.

So, that leaves ME to wonder HOW this subject could even generate a SINGLE reply UNLESS, there IS some spark of 'understanding' in those that have replied. Hopefully this IS the case and there IS the possibility that a 'more perfect' understanding IS obtainable by those that are TRULY seeking to KNOW.

MEC

MEC - Jesus was not tempted to have the cup taken away. Rather, Jesus merely confirmed what God's will was.

The temptations in the desert showcase two things: the foolishness of Satan and how to overcome sin. Jesus provides an example for us to follow.

 

[jgredline]

Mec
I will quote my self 8-)

So back to OP, this is a good question and something that should be spoken about and when one looks, there are many folks who believe Jesus could have sinned....What would have happened if he did sin? Then the folks who claim Jesus is not God would have reason to say Jesus is not God, but then Jesus would not have been a Saviour either.....

 

[Imagican]

Jesus IS Our Savior THROUGH the Power of God. As God's REPRESENTATIVE of the Word, He was EMPOWERED to DO THE WILL of the Father.

And alone, I disagree WHOLLY with your reply. We have the EXAMPLE; NOT to 'show US' how to overcome, but that Christ DID overcome. Funny, but I have YET to meet ANOTHER HUMAN BEING that has OVERCOME temptation as Christ 'gave the example'. Yet we SEE through the scripture that Christ DID overcome Satan through His NUMEROUS temptations.

Guys, WHY do you SUPPOSE that Satan HATES Christ? Simply because Christ DEFEATED DEATH? It's MUCH DEEPER than that, my friends. MUCH.

Yet if one INSISTS that Jesus IS God, you will NEVER be ABLE to come to an understanding of the relationship between God and His Son, OR Satan and Christ.

Christ COULD have sinned or He would have had NO need to ASK the Father for 'strength' to FULFILL that which was God's will.

And do YOU HONESTLY believe that WE were 'created' with FREE WILL and that Christ was UNABLE to perform FREE WILL?

MEC

 

[Solo]

Jesus IS Our Savior THROUGH the Power of God. As God's REPRESENTATIVE of the Word, He was EMPOWERED to DO THE WILL of the Father.

And alone, I disagree WHOLLY with your reply. We have the EXAMPLE; NOT to 'show US' how to overcome, but that Christ DID overcome. Funny, but I have YET to meet ANOTHER HUMAN BEING that has OVERCOME temptation as Christ 'gave the example'. Yet we SEE through the scripture that Christ DID overcome Satan through His NUMEROUS temptations.

Guys, WHY do you SUPPOSE that Satan HATES Christ? Simply because Christ DEFEATED DEATH? It's MUCH DEEPER than that, my friends. MUCH.

Yet if one INSISTS that Jesus IS God, you will NEVER be ABLE to come to an understanding of the relationship between God and His Son, OR Satan and Christ.

Christ COULD have sinned or He would have had NO need to ASK the Father for 'strength' to FULFILL that which was God's will.

And do YOU HONESTLY believe that WE were 'created' with FREE WILL and that Christ was UNABLE to perform FREE WILL?

MEC

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Yeah....I'm vote 1 John 3:9

 

[Imagican]

First:

You two wouldn't POSSIBLY offer that YOU ARE born of God then RIGHT? Or is it that you two would profess to NOT being sinners? Hmmmm.........Either way, you have elected to follow that which is 'not YET'.

But HERE is the 1 John scripture that DOES matter RIGHT NOW;

1 John 3:23

23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Hmmm.....again......... WHAT did this say?.........on the NAME OF HIS SON. how do you reacon THAT one slipped in there?

MEC

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

First:

You two wouldn't POSSIBLY offer that YOU ARE born of God then RIGHT? Or is it that you two would profess to NOT being sinners? Hmmmm.........Either way, you have elected to follow that which is 'not YET'.

Oh, my mistake, I thought we were discussing Jesus Christ, and that the verse applied to him. That is waht the thread is about, is it not?