Spiritual gifts: Unconfusing them

[Iconoclast]

False statement. No back-up scriptural proof !

I post in tongues...roko mokoshondi..koo kooo balon ey

So you are asserting, the book of 1st Corinthians, and chapters like 12, 13, 14 ... which address the Gift of Other Tongues and how/when/where those Corinthians were to receive and operate the GIFT ...

It happened just that exact way in the Corinthian church.

has no application to 21st Century Christians !

We can read and understand what took place just as it was described.

Hog wash ! Then the Book of Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Thessalonians etc. etc. etc. DO NOT APPLY TO 21st Century Christians either. You can't mean one, but not the other.

Sure you can. It was not for you. When Jesus told Peter to walk on water, was that for you today?

God specifically says: Forbid not to speak in other tongues. 1st Cor. 14.39.

He said that to that church, yes.

This admonition applies to today.

No it does not.

120 spoke in tongues, 3000+Jews asked for same gift Acts 1.37 - 39, Samaritans rec'd Acts 8, Cornelius and house rec'd Acts 10, the Ephesians rec'd Acts 19, Corinthians obviously were using their other tongues incorrectly 1 Cor. 14, Paul rec'd 1 Cor. 14.18.

Yes ,they did at that time.

Show me where scripture says it stops.

I can and will.

NO, Jesus [ = baptizer with H =, Luke 24.49 ] is same yesterday, today and forever.

Jesus is the same as far as His Divine person and work which he has accomplished.

Sorry, your devil inspired fear and false doctrine caue your unbelief, which results in you and others of your ilk to NOT receive.

Complete nonsense.

Those Christians TODAY, who speak in other tongues, speak directly to God and build themself up ( when in their prayer closet ) Nice benefit. plus many many more benefits shown in scripture, which YOU are missing out on ! too bad !

I know that is what you were taught by false teachers, and cling onto it. That has no scripture support and furthermore the verses you will try and insert as support , actually teach the opposite.

 

[Iconoclast]

9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.

12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

 

[hawkman]

I know that is what you were taught by false teachers, and cling onto it.

I was not taught or trained to speak in tongues . Yet I do . Read how it went down in this post .
https://christianforums.net/threads/spiritual-gifts-unconfusing-them.96475/#post-1759047

Any questions you have for me I will do my best to answer .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I was not taught or trained to speak in tongues . Yet I do . Read how it went down in this post .
https://christianforums.net/threads/spiritual-gifts-unconfusing-them.96475/#post-1759047

Any questions you have for me I will do my best to answer .

Yea I read this but what does it have to do with the experience of others? There are those who say they faked it and everyone cheered finally relieved. This is real.

 

[hawkman]

Yea I read this but what does it have to do with the experience of others?

You tell me . I was addressing the teaching issue brought up that is all .

There are those who say they faked it and everyone cheered finally relieved. This is real.

Where are "those who" at ? Actually this is virtual .

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You tell me . I was addressing the teaching issue brought up that is all .

Your one personal real experience doesn’t show that there are no faking it experiences.

Where are "those who" at ? Actually this is virtual .

In different places in the world. Does this matter?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Pretty rare = it does happen = it happened to Hawkman above and Cornelius' house ! AND, only God/Jesus know how often it has happened to other Believers over the centuries. BUT, the scripture points to the fact, more Christian in Scripture had the two stage, two step process, happening more often. First get Born again, then receive the Baptism of/with the Holy Spirit, with evidence of speaking in other tongues.

Paul said not all speak in tongues when he asked literally, “do all speak in tongues?” which means we don’t. That’s a very foolish “sign” in any case very easily faked. I know the real sign and it’s not easily faked and not at all by the discerning.

There are 400+ native languages in the Amazon jungle ... how many linguists do you know, know those languages, or the off-shoot dialects ? Probably none. Christians, speaking in tongues today, could very well be speaking those Amazon languages ... and how could any dumb liguist, with certainty, say they are just babbling.

Anyone can babble mindlessly. As I said there are definitely faking it experiences same as there is counterfeit money. Jesus said there are lying miracles which is even harder than faking tongues.

Impossible. Just like the doubters who dismiss the real gift of other tongues. Continue on without the benefit of speaking in tongues. OR, start listening to sound doctrine and ask God for His grace to understand and receive.

I don’t really understand why the reality of faking tongues seems to be threatening. Lying signs a d wonders don’t threaten the real ones. Fake money doesn’t threaten the existence of real money.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Sorry Dorothy,, I'm not a scientist.

Then don’t pretend to be one by adding up a few numbers and trying to draw a scientific conclusion.

I ONLY make BIBLICAL observations from the Scriptural God has given us. I'm not going to scientifically theorize so-called scientific doctrine's like Richard Dawkins. This is the ONLY sample size God gave us.

No biblical observation includes statistics.

Except, if you look at 1st Cor. 15. 5 - 8, there were approx. 526 BRETHREN/apostles/desciples , [ = born again , because scripture terms are specific = brethren etc. ] who SAW Jesus BEFORE Jesus ascended = before Pentecost. Approx. 406 disciples/brethren [ born again ] believers saw Jesus in the flesh BEFORE Pentecost and who didn't OBEY Jesus' command to WAIT in the Upper Room [ Luke 24.49, Acts 1.8 ] until they received power [ = Baptism Holy Spirit ]. 120/526 = 23 % who we could conclude didn't receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, WITH the evidence of speaking with other tongues. Same ratio today = approx. 23 % roughly, of trhe Body of Christ speak with other tongues [ have been Baptized with HS ]. Right ? Biggest cause = unbelief due to false doctrine and fear from devil.

Soon as you go to statistics you’re off.

1 out of 6, observed HISTORICAL biblical events, is a simple mathematical deduction. If there are more examples you can point to ... then 1 of 7, or 1 of 8 = simple % !

I think, bible scholars [ not scientists } will agree that, QUOTE:

"The law (or principle or rule) of first mention is a guideline that some people use for studying Scripture. The law of first mention says that, to understand a particular word or doctrine [ such as Baptism of the Holy Spirit ], we must find the first place in Scripture that word or doctrine is revealed and study that passage. The reasoning is that the Bible’s first mention of a concept is the simplest and clearest presentation; doctrines are then more fully developed on that foundation [ pointing to similar scriptures ]. So, to fully understand an important and complex theological concept, Bible students are advised to start with its “first mention.” "​

I can only SEE 6 clear examples in the scriptures of people receiving the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT , then SPOKE IN OTHER TONGUES [ scriptures God wanted us to learn from ] --- scripture where we see ( or easily deduce from the language used and/or references to something like ... " Simon SAW that by the laying on of hands, the Holy Spirit [ baptize with HS ] was given " ) ! The Corinthians, spoke in OTHER tongues, proving they had received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit ... but we don't see where that EVENT occured ... like the 6 times reffered to above ( in Acts 2, Peter points to other tongues ... when answering the 3000+ Jews' question ... what do these tongue mean? ... as the SIGN/proof the Baptism of Holy Spirit had been given to the 120 = according to Joel's promise = law of first MENTION ) !

Correct. Nowhere in scripture do we see the exact phrase : asking Jesus into your heart. !

My point exactly but yelling it won’t help.

However ! When we take a look at the WHOLE OF SCRIPTURE, we can conclude from the SEMANTIC COMPONENTS of many scripture verses, the clear implication of inviting/receiving Jesus into our hearts , over and over.

Nope. You admit it isn’t there which is correct.

Examples:

Jesus is the Word made flesh = John 1.1, 14. Correct !!!

Gal. 4.6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” { = verse = Jesus IN our hearts ]

We don’t ask Jesus into our hearts there.

John 14.17 “the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you [ where ? = heart ]. [ God = Jesus = HS = Three = ONE ]

Again, we don’t condescend to ask otherwise homeless Jesus into our hearts there either.

Jer. 31.33 “But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days [ new covenant = NT ], says the LORD: I will put My law [ word = Jesus ] in their minds, and write it [ = law = word = Jesus ] on [ IN ] their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

No asking Jesus into our hearts (or he’s out in the cold) there either.

John 4.14 “but whoever drinks of the water [ HS = Jesus ] that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water [ HS ] that I shall give him will become in [ not UPON ] him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

Same no one is asking poor Jesus in.

John 7.38 - 39 “He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water [ HS = which is sign of other tongues = according to 1st Cor. 14.14 = my spirit prays ] .” But this He spoke concerning the Spirit [ = Jesus ], whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. [ We agree: Father = Son = HS = 3 = ONE ]

True but they don’t ask Him in.

Job 22.22 Receive, please, instruction from His mouth, And lay up His words [ Jesus = Word ] in your heart.

Opening you mouth won’t help either.

Pro. 10.8 The wise in heart will receive commands [ = God's Word = Jesus ], But a prating fool will fall.

Means OBEY commands. Doesn’t mean pray a simple prayer sans repentance or asking forgiveness.

Eze. 3.10 Moreover He said to me: “Son of man, receive into your heart all My words [ = Jesus ] that I speak to you, and hear with your ears.

That’s spoken to the one “son of man” and says this but in any case it’s words in my case, not Jesus.

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God [ = Jesus ], they sent Peter and John to them, [ Where else did the Samaritans receive Jesus ... except IN their heart ?].

Received the word of God which is intellectually understood and then OBEYED. It isn’t a one time prayer to receive Jesus into your heart for which he is grateful.

THEREFORE, the IDIOM/phrase of "receive Jesus in your heart" ... is not derived from any specific group of words in one particular scripture verse ... it is clearly a bible principle many Christian accept as the TRUTH !

It’s not true at all. But what is true throughout scripture is

REPENT OF YOUR SINS, ASK GOD FORGIVENESS AND OBEY THE TEACHINGS/LAW of God.

Of course we can ask for the Holy Spirit and so on, but the real gospel which hurts the human pride, has been replaced by no repentance, no humbly asking forgiveness just “be a sport and ask homeless poor Jesus into your heart and heaven is guaranteed.”

 

[Elijah777]

I post in tongues...roko mokoshondi..koo kooo balon ey



It happened just that exact way in the Corinthian church.


We can read and understand what took place just as it was described.


Sure you can. It was not for you. When Jesus told Peter to walk on water, was that for you today?


He said that to that church, yes.

No it does not.

Yes ,they did at that time.

I can and will.


Jesus is the same as far as His Divine person and work which he has accomplished.


Complete nonsense.

I know that is what you were taught by false teachers, and cling onto it. That has no scripture support and furthermore the verses you will try and insert as support , actually teach the opposite.

Iconoclast said: I post in tongues...roko mokoshondi..koo kooo balon ey

This is really very funny and interesting ... I copied Iconoclast's "TONGUES" and pasted into Google Translate and the following is what Google gave me:

= roko mokoshondi..I'm not sure what to do = the 2nd PART is actually a language of:

Lingala, which is a Bantu language spoken in the northwest of the Democratic Republic of the Congo !​

This is a real slap in the face for the impudent and heretical Iconoclast, who "mocks" God's real gift(s)! I really feel sorry for you buddy/girly ??? You should be ashamed of yourself !

GO HIDE YOURSELF IN SHAME !

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast said: I post in tongues...roko mokoshondi..koo kooo balon ey

This is really very funny and interesting ... I copied Iconoclast's "TONGUES" and pasted into Google Translate and the following is what Google gave me:

= roko mokoshondi..I'm not sure what to do = the 2nd PART is actually a language of:

Lingala, which is a Bantu language spoken in the northwest of the Democratic Republic of the Congo !​

This is a real slap in the face for the impudent and heretical Iconoclast, who "mocks" God's real gift(s)! I really feel sorry for you buddy/girly ??? You should be ashamed of yourself !

GO HIDE YOURSELF IN SHAME !

I told you I post in tongues, how can you doubt it, now that you have given the interpretation!

 

[Elijah777]

Then don’t pretend to be one by adding up a few numbers and trying to draw a scientific conclusion.

No biblical observation includes statistics.

Soon as you go to statistics you’re off.

My point exactly but yelling it won’t help.

Nope. You admit it isn’t there which is correct.

We don’t ask Jesus into our hearts there.

Again, we don’t condescend to ask otherwise homeless Jesus into our hearts there either.

No asking Jesus into our hearts (or he’s out in the cold) there either.

Same no one is asking poor Jesus in.

True but they don’t ask Him in.

Opening you mouth won’t help either.

Means OBEY commands. Doesn’t mean pray a simple prayer sans repentance or asking forgiveness.

That’s spoken to the one “son of man” and says this but in any case it’s words in my case, not Jesus.

Received the word of God which is intellectually understood and then OBEYED. It isn’t a one time prayer to receive Jesus into your heart for which he is grateful.

It’s not true at all. But what is true throughout scripture is

REPENT OF YOUR SINS, ASK GOD FORGIVENESS AND OBEY THE TEACHINGS/LAW of God.

Of course we can ask for the Holy Spirit and so on, but the real gospel which hurts the human pride, has been replaced by no repentance, no humbly asking forgiveness just “be a sport and ask homeless poor Jesus into your heart and heaven is guaranteed.”

HONESTLY GIRL, YOU TWIST THINGS LIKE YOUR BUDDY/GIRLY ??? FRIEND iconoclast.

He/she ( ? ) tried to mock God's gift of tongues and said:

" I post in tongues...roko mokoshondi..koo kooo balon ey "

This is really very funny and interesting ... I copied Iconoclast's "TONGUES" and pasted it into Google Translate and the following is what Google gave me:

= roko mokoshondi..I'm not sure what to do = the 2nd PART is actually the language of:

Lingala, which is a Bantu language spoken in the northwest of the Democratic Republic of the Congo !​

This is a real slap in the face for the impudent and heretical Iconoclast, who "mocks" God's real gift(s) ... AS YOU DO DOROTHY ! I really feel sorry for you buddy/girly ??? You should be ashamed of yourself !

GO HIDE YOURSELF IN SHAME !

But, Dorothy, you are right, you need to REPENT and ask Jesus inito your heart ! Then start living a life pleasing to God !

 

[Iconoclast]

HONESTLY GIRL, YOU TWIST THINGS LIKE YOUR BUDDY/GIRLY ??? FRIEND iconoclast.

He/she ( ? ) tried to mock God's gift of tongues and said:

" I post in tongues...roko mokoshondi..koo kooo balon ey "

This is really very funny and interesting ... I copied Iconoclast's "TONGUES" and pasted it into Google Translate and the following is what Google gave me:

= roko mokoshondi..I'm not sure what to do = the 2nd PART is actually the language of:

Lingala, which is a Bantu language spoken in the northwest of the Democratic Republic of the Congo !​

This is a real slap in the face for the impudent and heretical Iconoclast, who "mocks" God's real gift(s) ... AS YOU DO DOROTHY ! I really feel sorry for you buddy/girly ??? You should be ashamed of yourself !

GO HIDE YOURSELF IN SHAME !

But, Dorothy, you are right, you need to REPENT and ask Jesus inito your heart ! Then start living a life pleasing to God !

I believe exactly what took place and was recorded for believers to understand.
You seem to be in disbelief.

 

[Elijah777]

I was not taught or trained to speak in tongues . Yet I do . Read how it went down in this post .
https://christianforums.net/threads/spiritual-gifts-unconfusing-them.96475/#post-1759047

Any questions you have for me I will do my best to answer .

Hawkman, Iconoclast, tried to mock me/God and posted the following, to a post I made about the Baptism of Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues:

" I post in tongues...roko mokoshondi..koo kooo balon ey "

My reply to Iconoclast was:

This is really very funny and interesting ... I copied your "TONGUES" and pasted it into Google Translate and the following is what Google gave me:

= roko mokoshondi..I'm not sure what to do = the 2nd PART is actually the language of:

Lingala, which is a Bantu language spoken in the northwest of the Democratic Republic of the Congo !​

This is a real slap in the face for the impudent and heretical Iconoclast, who "mocks" God's real gift(s) ! I really feel sorry for you buddy/girly ??? You should be ashamed of yourself !

GO HIDE YOURSELF IN SHAME !

 

[Iconoclast]

Hawkman, Iconoclast, tried to mock me/God and posted the following, to a post I made about the Baptism of Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues:

" I post in tongues...roko mokoshondi..koo kooo balon ey "

My reply to Iconoclast was:

This is really very funny and interesting ... I copied your "TONGUES" and pasted it into Google Translate and the following is what Google gave me:

= roko mokoshondi..I'm not sure what to do = the 2nd PART is actually the language of:

Lingala, which is a Bantu language spoken in the northwest of the Democratic Republic of the Congo !​

This is a real slap in the face for the impudent and heretical Iconoclast, who "mocks" God's real gift(s) ! I really feel sorry for you buddy/girly ??? You should be ashamed of yourself !

GO HIDE YOURSELF IN SHAME !

Your post makes no sense. What is a buddygirly?

 

[Iconoclast]

I wish the wiki had gone into just a little more detail. The statement is "Cessationism is a doctrine that spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues, prophecy and healing ceased with the Apostolic Age. The doctrine was developed in the reformation and is particularly associated with the Calvinists."

It doesn't actually say who it was developed by, only that it came to be particularly associated with the Calvinists.

I would assume that means it originated with them, but maybe there is no definite proof of origin, and only guilt by association.

This foolish post has no merit whatsoever. The biblical teaching has not changed since the beginning. Your hatred for Calvinist brethren is remarkable.

 

[Iconoclast]

So, you do not have the guidance of the Holy Spirit ?

What do you mean by this? Why do you suggest this?

 

[Iconoclast]

No exact date, but for certain it was no longer than the apostles or whom they laid their hands on lived. They could no longer be passed on when everyone who had the ability to make them manifest were no longer living. Also, at what point were they no longer needed? No exact date there either. But we do know what 1 Cor 13:8-10 says, that they would cease when that which is perfect is come at least as related to the Corinthians and where they were at in their growth process as a body of Christ. That's how this must be looked at, as relates to them not us since the letter was to them, not us.

Some who despise scripture create stories. They speak of moving in the gifts, moving in the Spirit, none of which is described in the bible. Some of them have posted they do not attend any local assembly in direct disobedience to scripture. The real issue is many have turned from the safety of the word of God, and have invented fables, about all manner of things.
You and millions of other Christians are discounted because you question these claims and the foolish noises . Have you seen the videos where the people eat grass? Others where they jump around and make animal noises? laugh like fools? crawl around while the guy on the platform tells them, follow me sheep?

 

[Iconoclast]

Do you take all of the things Jesus said to the 12 as being only for the 12?

That is what Jesus said. He spoke to them, not you

Or later only for that generation of those who heard him or his apostles? When Jesus said "you" he meant only those standing there? That is what you are doing here.

He is understanding the truth as recorded in scripture. It was spoken uniquely to them, not you.

 

[Elijah777]

Thanks for the response brother, and nice to see you posting. I'd be interested to see how many in our time have a similar experience. His is actually the first I have ever encountered to say he received this way. The vast majority receive as a later experience through the laying on of hands, as I did.


I think they did receive the Spirit after this, yes, but again I personally believe it was by the laying on of hands after this.

I'd be interested to see what other evidences you have, although forgive me if you have already posted it. I noticed someone added another post while I was typing this one.

Hey Hidden in Him,

I can tell you another time, I saw someone get SAVED and BAPTIZED in HOLY SPIRIT, with tongues immediately following.

I walked home from Church one day. A neighbor's 8 year old boy was sitting on a trash can in the alley across from my house. I walked over and said: so you're mad at your Mom ... eh ? The boy was surprised ... asking how I knew ? I said, God told me. We talked a bit about how God wanted him to obey his Mom ! Then I preached Jesus to him ... and he said he believe all that. So I asked if he'd like to say a prayer with me. I led him into/thru a "sinner's prayer !" Bang ! I could see a real move of the Spirit ! The boy explained, it felt like a REAL BIG RAIN ... but none hit the ground ... but filled him up ! Wow ! So I said to the boy ... you hear a language inside you. Again, he said, how do you know ? I said, God showed me. So, then I encourage the little guy to speak out the words he was hearing. Bingo ! He began speaking in tongues.

Really, I was concerned that Mom might not be so excited. The next thing that happened, there was someone at my front door. Mom maybe ??? Yikes ??? No, it was the little guy's sister. She wanted the tongues. So, I sat with the kids in the yard and preached Jesus to her. She believed ... prayed sinners prayer. Nothing ! She was disappointed. I said, don't worry, I know it happened ... we asked God for the same gift ... go your way and it will happen. About 1/2 hour later, she was at my front door ... demonstrating her gift of other tongues. MAGNIFICENT GOD !

Through that interaction, several other kids in the district also gave their lives to the Lord and received the Baptism of HS.

As best as I can recount the above ... God my witness ... this is what happened ! Later I found out the Mom was a Christian !

 

[Dorothy Mae]

HONESTLY GIRL, YOU TWIST THINGS LIKE YOUR BUDDY/GIRLY ??? FRIEND iconoclast.

He/she ( ? ) tried to mock God's gift of tongues and said:

" I post in tongues...roko mokoshondi..koo kooo balon ey "

This is really very funny and interesting ... I copied Iconoclast's "TONGUES" and pasted it into Google Translate and the following is what Google gave me:

= roko mokoshondi..I'm not sure what to do = the 2nd PART is actually the language of:

Lingala, which is a Bantu language spoken in the northwest of the Democratic Republic of the Congo !​

This is a real slap in the face for the impudent and heretical Iconoclast, who "mocks" God's real gift(s) ... AS YOU DO DOROTHY ! I really feel sorry for you buddy/girly ??? You should be ashamed of yourself !

GO HIDE YOURSELF IN SHAME !

But, Dorothy, you are right, you need to REPENT and ask Jesus inito your heart ! Then start living a life pleasing to God !

I guess you like to yell loudly as well attack people personally when you have no answer.

Adieu