Standing With Ukraine: The Blind Leading The Blind

[jasonc]

Intel Leak Shows Us Nothing New Or Surprising About Ukraine

The recent Discord leak reveals just how significantly overclassified government documents and intelligence have become.

thefederalist.com

Bump

 

[Riven]

Hi Riven

Well, that's a dangerous and likely incorrect determination your making as to 'why' and on what 'issues' is the Pentagon saying they don't trust the data. Have you got a link to what information the Pentagon might be referring to? But if that's what you believe, then so be it. I mean the Pentagon may well have some hesitation concerning some information that they are getting, but the troop losses and battle victories and losses are likely pretty accurate and that's been reported by others than just the Ukranian government. They have video evidence of hundreds of abandoned and destroyed armaments just left in place. Do you think Pres. Putin paid his soldiers to set that up so that Ukraine could get a good photo op?

No, I think that Russia is taking severe losses and is losing equipment. Whether that is due to enemy fire or mechanical failure leading to the crews abandoning the vehicles, is really anybody's guess.

So, get me some information on 'what' it is that the Pentagon is doubting, and we can look into this bogus claim of yours.

Go get it yourself. It was in the recent data leak.

I know that you're not really that ignorant as regards nation conflicts so I'm going to just leave that question there for someone more stupid than myself to answer it for you. I mean you do know that Russia is a big, big country with lots and lots of people that the government honestly has little qualm with throwing several million into a meat grinder. You are familiar with the old Soviet Union and now Russian government operations...right? They beat Germany, even though the German army was much more skilled and armed than they were, but Germany's forces were divided on two broad fronts and couldn't match the 'manpower' the sheer numbers of Soviet soldier fodder could throw out. The Soviet Union was practically dead, when at the last minute God must have stepped in and given them a victory at Stalingrad. At that point the Soviet Union was literally hanging on by a pretty worn thread. So don't be so naive as to think that Pres. Putin won't keep this going, despite losses, until the last feeble, crippled, starving Russian soldier falls dead at someone's feet.

God did not step in to help the Russians. The United States did with Lend Lease.

We have been told over and over again by the Zalensky regime, that Putin has been losing the war since day one. This has been contradicted numerous times by Russian advances and the continuation of the war.

Yes, Russia is big. But manpower is not enough to defeat the Ukrainians. You have to be able to resupply your troops with munitions and equipment. Unlike in the 1940's, Russia today is not benefitting from a United States resupply. They have to manufacture new tanks and other equipment themselves and that takes time.

I seriously doubt that Russia would be making advances in Ukraine today if the stories of catastrophic losses of men and equipment were true. The Iraqis took catastrohic losses in 2003. Saddam ordered his propaganda minister to tell everyone that it was in fact the United States that was taking tremendous losses and that the Iraqis would be victorious. War time propaganda is real.

That's exactly what it is your opinionated propaganda. LOL!

No. It's actually just my opinion.

Surprisingly, I agree with you on that comparison, except that it's Pres. Putin who is doing all the parading about how great things are going when they actually aren't. But as I said earlier, this is America! Everyone gets to hold to whatever they believe is the truth.

Why are you surprised? I think I'm a very reasonable person.

 

[Riven]

Retired doesn't .

But I guess despite my training in armor,anti armor and anti aircraft and other mos .I should believe you when I was trained to and trained by men destroyed Russian t80 , t72 tanks.

Seriously I know a few wel more knowledgeable veterans in aviation and armor and infantry who deployed and some that didn't .one being a m1 tank commander ,and armor company commander .

I highly doubt a t 80 could take hits from a tow 2b let alone the main gun of the m1a2 which has the ability to fire in the move .

Russian aircraft of the rotary type are flying tanks .their recoiless rifles are fornidable .

My post I mentioned goes into a neutral stance and isn't quite pro Biden but you rant against tucker who I did listen to on military things .I don't get it .

It's not like I didn't actually see and have Russian weapons on our base made fully operational and used against the Taliban.


I just see neither side as all that .the article says Russian military has issues but doesn't ignore that the Ukrainian side has it as well and that NATO isn't able to sustain a prolonged conflict with Russia

It's not like I didn't hold a cleareance and get what this guy meant about admission by zelenski .

I don't believe in despite my bad days of anger or depression , demoralizing troops.i still have young soldiers I taught serving.some are at my rank ,others out rank me . integrity I won't let go of.

Before I decide to insurrect and kill fellow Americans I best be sure if it's needed and ready to die .often it's the media division here and we'll

Blackrock owns parts of nbc,abc via Disney ,cbs,fox and the west street journal .

I'm not a fan of that but it doesn't always mean that the alternative sources are better .why they might also be plants by them .imho.

I didn't say you had to believe me. You can believe whatever you like.

 

[jasonc]

I didn't say you had to believe me. You can believe whatever you like.

I honestly think that some just follow their guy without questioning ,left or right .it doesn't matter that if their guy wins often they won't do much or simply can't .

Sure the POTUS can have an effect and policy by Congress but to buy into these I'm gonna save America and reverse course in a few years
Take china .how exactly do we un moor from that in a few years ?

I don't trust china

 

[Phoneman777]

Hi Phoneman777
Well, you see, there's a problem with that statement. How do you recognize 'fake news'? I mean really, what is it that you look for that assures you that any particular news source is spreading 'fake news'?

God bless,
Ted

Well, for one, any news organization that is actively as we speak IGNORING what the 20 year old Air National Guardsman leaked which shows Ukraine is getting their butt kicked, NATO forces - including U.S. soldiers - are on the ground fighting Russian military, and billions of $$$ sent to Ukraine are being diverted to points unknown.

Is CNDNC reporting on any of this, or are they joining with leftists in unilaterally condemning the young man for "threatening national security"? Washington Compost? PMS-NBC? Reuters? BBC? NBC, ABC, CBS? No, they aren't. Voila.....FAKE NEWS.

There was a time when journalists would "speak truth to power"...journalists would risk their lives to report news which would expose fraud, embarrass, hold accountable those in power.

Do you not understand that FAKE NEWS has completely abandoned all facades of legitimacy and have thrown themselves fully into the employ of political leftists, to protect them, support them, aid them, shield them, do whatever it takes to help them advance their lying narratives?

 

[Phoneman777]

to Phoneman777 and Fastfredy0

Just checking. Should I expect any replies to my queries regarding 'how' one determines that a news report or source is what is today popularly termed 'fake news'? I thought maybe I could finally figure out 'why' I don't understand things the way some seem to. Your responses seem to indicate that I'm somehow deficient in determining whether or not news is 'fake news' or not. You two really gonna leave a brother hangin'?

Honestly these three things that Fastfredy0 is claiming identifies fake news seems pretty ambiguous to me. Big enough? What? Like it has to be a worldwide story or just needs to be some blockbuster like '50 year old has dinner with Santa Claus every night'? Long enough? Is this measured in hours, days, weeks, months, years? Does the story need to be soooo big that it sits on the banner of every news report for 5 years? Many people are involved? Like 10 or 10 million?

Then you close with...there are exceptions to these rules. So, now how do I know which ones are the exceptions and which ones are really 'fake news'? I just don't really see how someone can apply these rules to the discussion on this very thread and make some sure determination that any particular report or account of what's going on in Ukraine is a 'fake news' story or not.

So let's start there. Is this article 'fake news' or not:

Russian warns G-7 'idiots'; Russian mercenaries to stop taking POWs, 'kill everyone on battlefield': Updates

Moscow threatens to shut down the Black Sea Grain deal that helps feed much of the developing world if the G-7 decides to ban all exports to Russia.

www.usatoday.com

I bring this site up because it gives several of the recent updates on a number of issues revolving around the Ukraine/Russia conflict. Could you tell me which ones are fake and which ones are true (if any) and show your work as to how you determined that one was fake or true?

God bless,
Ted

Sorry, man, got somewhat busy last couple days. I'm not saying you can't discern fake from real...I'm saying the news you're sampling isn't allowing you the opportunity to choose.

My former anti-2A neighbor and I had a convo one day about guns and after informing him about several key statistics he'd admitted to not having known, I finally asked him what kind of news does he consume, and his answer was "diverse media, not just CNN". He then said "NPR and BBC" - two of the most leftist news organizations out there LOL. I asked him what he planned to do if an armed thug broke into his house, and he said "I have a bat". Yes...his bat vs. a bullet LOLOL

(When he tried to say that pro-2A people don't respect the views of anti-2A people, I asked him which was more disrespectful: standing up for the 2A, or going to the voting booth and voting to DEPRIVE ANOTHER HIS RIGHT to exercise the 2A?)

My neighbor thought he consumed news media from all sides of the political spectrum but recognized not one single right-of-center news source I named, not Breitbart, Jeff Crouere, Michael Savage (he's loud, but still only right of center), Tucker Carlson - I mean, he didn't even watch left-leaning Fox News that just fired Tucker, the most popular, most money-making anchor on the air. This seems to be the case with most people - they're so plugged into the matrix that when offered the Red Pill, most often than not it seems they'd rather have the blue pill and the fake steak.

 

[Phoneman777]

 

[Phoneman777]

Russia never intended to do what they are doing.

The Globalist controlled Biden Administration escalated the operation into a full blown war.

The Globalist dont controll Putin, therefore he is hated like President Trump.

The ate pushing their NWO Globalist agenda.



JLB

Gold star comment, bro

 

[Phoneman777]

What is truth? When it comes to war both side lie and deceive. Naturally, the strong tendency is to believe your leaders. They have to lie and exaggerate to get people to risk their lives for their war goals. Sad to say our media is on board with the government.
Their deceit works. For example, large number of Americans think a man can be a women by simply saying so. Heard of a new one: flurries (anthropomorphic animals). Public school children can become a flurry. Heard second hand of a school where they have litter boxes in the washrooms for the flurry children that ID as flurries.

Question: Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afganistan, Ukraine ... has there been a good engagement in the last 60 years? I think not ... maybe Korea (I'm not knowledgable on that one)

Ukraine is another bad engagement IMO.

They fired the prosecutor investigating Barisma, the energy company that place on it's board of directors HUNTER BIDEN - no energy experience, no Ukraine experience, no ANYTHING experience HUNTER BIDEN. And, why did they fire the prosecutor? Because VICE POTUS BIDEN went over there and told them if they wanted the 2B dollars in aid that was slated for them, they'd better fire him..."well, son of a *****...he got fired!"

Textbook "quid pro quo", the very thing they accused Trump of doing during the infamous "phone call" which turned out to be nothing, but Biden is ON VIDEO TAPE ADMITTING TO QUID PRO QUO and only crickets from the lying Fake News. In case anyone missed it:

 

[Phoneman777]

It doesn't say Russia is winning. What it does say, is that the Pentagon does not trust the news that it's getting out of Ukraine. Those are two very different things.

That being said, I think that support for the war and Ukraine will eventually wane and because Russia shares a land border with Ukraine, they will eventually win the war through attrition. Ukraine can only sustain itself for as long as the West supplies them with arms and ammunition.

That's pretty much the same thing. Ukraine is acting like they're about the force Russia into a cease fire, but all external indicators suggest anything but that is the truth. Russia has no national debt, while the U.S. has sent 130B in aid, even money to pay generous salaries of bureaucrats!

2020, Covid Plannedemic, Ukraine...the only hoax that will top this steady stream of deception is when Satan appears to the world claiming to be Christ, and sadly, just about the entire world is going to fall for that one, too.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hi Riven

Well, we'll have to cross that bridge when we get to it.

While I don't pretend to be a prophet, I'm reading of cracks in the Kremlin. But I do know that Pres. Putin is considered a very severe and driven man. You may be right as far as in his lifetime. I really have a hard time imagining any war to be indefinate. Although we were at war with N. Korea for an awfully long time.

Why in the world would Putin trust the U.S.? We don't trust them and they don't trust us is pretty much how the world's been running for at least the last 100 years. We don't run NATO! That's a conglomeration of nations, of which we may be the largest, but if Ukraine wants to apply to NATO and are accepted, it wouldn't be solely the U.S.'s fault.

We'll see what unfolds over the next 6 months.

God bless,
Ted

Globalists have openly claimed that any nation that refuses to join in their NWO paradise "will eventually regret it". I have no doubt that the U.S. - the second beast of Revelation 13 - is hating on Russia for their anti-globalist agenda.

If anyone doubts the voracity of the U.S. as being the second beast of Revelation 13, I guarantee John Wesley would have easily seen this, as would any other person with a comptent understanding of the core structure of Protestant Historicism.

 

[miamited]

Well, for one, any news organization that is actively as we speak IGNORING what the 20 year old Air National Guardsman leaked which shows Ukraine is getting their butt kicked, NATO forces - including U.S. soldiers - are on the ground fighting Russian military, and billions of $$$ sent to Ukraine are being diverted to points unknown.

Hi Phoneman777

Ok, well, if that's what's happening, then what are they doing with all of the dead American soldiers? Are they burying them over there or are they also sneaking them home to their grieving parents with the NDA that they never tell anyone how their child died? All the NATO soldiers that would likewise be dying are, suppose also sent back to their families only after they agree to an NDA. Right? Is that about how that works in your head?

Is CNDNC reporting on any of this, or are they joining with leftists in unilaterally condemning the young man for "threatening national security"? Washington Compost? PMS-NBC? Reuters? BBC? NBC, ABC, CBS? No, they aren't. Voila.....FAKE NEWS.

So any news agency that isn't showing us all of these dead American and European soldiers are fake. Ok. See. That makes it so much easier. Thanks.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

If anyone doubts the voracity of the U.S. as being the second beast of Revelation 13,

Hey, I actually agree with you on that one piece of information.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi Riven

God did not step in to help the Russians. The United States did with Lend Lease.

Right. Kind of like what's happening now. But you don't think that God might have had His hand in all of that. I mean He does claim to make and break nations. You do agree that the Soviet forces were just about dead and the Capitol overrun by the time Germany made it to Stalingrad...right? Or is there some revisionist history I need to know?

When the German Army Neared Moscow, Millions Fled — But Some Stayed to Fight

As 1941's Operation Barbarossa progressed, residents of the Soviet capital fled—or stayed behind to fight.

www.historynet.com

Yes, Russia is big. But manpower is not enough to defeat the Ukrainians. You have to be able to resupply your troops with munitions and equipment.

Hmmm, seems like I read that a Mr. Prigozhin was complaining of that exact problem. Probably fake news.

Anyway, the U.S. has always been a helper to the helpless when it comes to these nation battles. Or at least that's the way they like to spin it. So, I'm guessing we're going to keep on helping them. I believe their cause is righteous. I mean I've never lived in Russia, but stories of life that I have heard have rarely been pleasant. On a per capita basis their incomes are frightening for most of us. I can't imagine that people of Ukraine wanting to live under Russian leadership. A recent report says that 4 of 5 people have less than $10,000. in personal wealth.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Milk-Drops]

Globalists have openly claimed that any nation that refuses to join in their NWO paradise "will eventually regret it". I have no doubt that the U.S. - the second beast of Revelation 13 - is hating on Russia for their anti-globalist agenda.

If anyone doubts the voracity of the U.S. as being the second beast of Revelation 13, I guarantee John Wesley would have easily seen this, as would any other person with a comptent understanding of the core structure of Protestant Historicism.

I never thought I'd see the day when Tankies and Qanon adjacent people would be on the same side.

If you just swap globalist with Imperialist, it's the same talk8ng points.

 

[Riven]

Hi Riven

Right. Kind of like what's happening now. But you don't think that God might have had His hand in all of that. I mean He does claim to make and break nations.

He makes many claims. Yet, a nation like North Korea is left untouched. Why is that?

You do agree that the Soviet forces were just about dead and the Capitol overrun by the time Germany made it to Stalingrad...right? Or is there some revisionist history I need to know?

The United States began supplying Russia in 1941. The Germans lost the initative after being surrounded and cut off in Stalingrad.

Anyway, the U.S. has always been a helper to the helpless when it comes to these nation battles. Or at least that's the way they like to spin it.

It's the way they like to spin it. We don't care about the Ukrainian people. We were helping the Saudis commit genocide in Yemen for years. The United States doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to morality. That's why everyone at the UN laughs when American politicians grandstand on moral issues. It's pathetic.

 

[miamited]

Hi Riven

The Germans lost the initative after being surrounded and cut off in Stalingrad.

Right. History shows that Germany began its attack on the Soviet Union in June of 1941. They lost and lost and lost ground until the battle of Stalingrad in November 1942. That's over a year of fighting and losing. It is claimed that the Soviet Union lost more soldiers, by far, than any other nation. There are estimates that run as high as 27 million Soviet soldiers and people died in that short period. Then, as you correctly point out, the U.S. came to their aid and finally allowed them a victory with Germany within spitting distance of their palace. I think it was 40 miles or so.

So, how powerful is the Soviet Union, which is now just a smaller state called Russia, if the U.S. had to bail them out of their last war; they got chased out of Afghanistan with their tail between their legs, and the U.S. isn't stepping in to help them this time. Now that large powerful force that helped them beat the Germans is trying to help Ukraine beat the Russians.

That seems to be the truth of the matter, as I see it. Obviously you have a different understanding of the facts of the matter.

Today, we're seeing pretty much the exact same bumbling military that is poorly led and poorly supplied losing a lot battles and not really able to make much headway against the formidable and better supplied Ukrainian military. You know why? Well it used to be called lend lease. But war is always a tragedy for the people who must live on the spot of the earth in which it occurs.

Anyway, we'll see how this plays out, but I'm one for supporting Ukraine in this struggle to maintain their independence and hopefully they'll recover the Crimea region, too.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi Riven

He makes many claims. Yet, a nation like North Korea is left untouched. Why is that?

For the same reason that some seemingly faithful servants of God sometimes go through some tough spots. The working hand of God in the affairs of men isn't something that we can know, apart from His telling us. But there are often examples of His work to be seen, even though we don't know that He was in it. N. Korea is a nation that sticks pretty much to itself. The N. Koreans aren't trying to conquer the world and never have been. Their greatest fight was just to separate the nation into North and South Korea.

The German army of WWII was marching across the width and breadth of the planet, at least in Europe, so maybe, just maybe, God saw it as a somewhat more important issue to the survival of mankind that Germany be defeated in it's goal and 'caused' events to happen that finally crippled Germany by the poorly led and supplied Soviet military. Just a thought. Don't really know. God's word does tell us that He does make and break kingdoms. From the historical records of the fighting in the Soviet Union, it seems that something must have changed to get an army that was being pushed back like it was nothing, to finally stop the onslaught of the German advance. At a phenomenally great price of death and destruction. Now, you're free to allow whatever reason you believe brought about this seeming change in the Soviet's military abilities, I allow that God's hand may have been in on it.

From some of the accounts that I've read, it's proposed that the German army, for whatever reason, seems to have lost its drive to conquer the Soviet Union. Lack of communications or supplies or whatever, changes came about that caused the Soviets to finally whip the German army.

It's the way they like to spin it. We don't care about the Ukrainian people. We were helping the Saudis commit genocide in Yemen for years. The United States doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to morality. That's why everyone at the UN laughs when American politicians grandstand on moral issues. It's pathetic.

For that, I'll just have to allow that if you say so, then it must be true. While I agree that the U.S. doesn't have a leg to stand on as some morally just nation, and that may make a difference in your thinking, I believe the reality is that there really aren't any morally just nations and so we fight wars. So honestly, I'm not sure one nation being morally just or not really has anything to do with whether or not such a nation can wage a war. And while I'm sure there is some snickering when the U.S. rep. to the U.N. brings up moral issues, the U.N. generally agrees with most of the agenda that the U.S. works for within that body. I mean, the U.N. is just a body of nation representatives that are just trying to work out world problems. They do the best they can, generally speaking.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Barbarian]

Ukraine isn't the victim

The Ukrainian people are the victims. Putin is merely doing what autocrats all eventually do. He surrounded himself with yes-men, and started believing them. Now he increasingly lashes out at innocent civilians to assuage the pain of reality.

No, I think that Russia is taking severe losses and is losing equipment. Whether that is due to enemy fire or mechanical failure leading to the crews abandoning the vehicles, is really anybody's guess.

Evidence so far indicates it's some of each of that, as well as shoddy equipment and not enough of it, due to corruption in military procurement. Poor training and low motivation is probably part of the deal as well. An army that has determined to shoot any soldier found retreating has already begun to come apart.

Russia's military is likely deploying units with the sole purpose of threatening to shoot soldiers caught retreating in Ukraine, the UK Ministry of Defence said on Friday.

In an intelligence update, the ministry said that "due to low morale and reluctance to fight, Russian forces have probably started deploying 'barrier troops' or 'blocking units.'"

 

[miamited]

MSN

Hey, here's more fake news for ya! I know it's fake because it doesn't mention there's green cheese on the moon that everyone knows is there. So it's fake alright. Oh, and they also don't mention anything about all the dead American and European soldiers that everyone also knows is going on, but the 'fake media' won't tell us about it and the 'real media' can't seem to prove.

God bless,
Ted