Tasted Death for every Man !

[brightfame52]

Actually, you are disrespecting Lord Jesus by rejecting what he stated. I accept what Lord Jesus stated as being true, which honors him.

You showing disrespect, because the ones He tasted death for, it brings them to Glory, wherein you say, some whom He died for will yet die in their sins lost. That dishonors Him

 

[Kermos]

Nobody, so all can be converted.

Essentially, you are saying "the whole world" is always every person in all time because we are corresponding about:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
(1 John 2:1-2)
​

Despite this post's Spiritually true explanation about these verses.

So, are you a part of "the whole world" in the same book where John (1 John 5:19) wrote "the whole world lies in the power of the evil one"?

 

[setst777]

Oh absolutely, brightfame52. And Christ's righteousness comes with, and is a part of, the fruit of faith upon whom it is given.

[Rom 3:22 KJV] 22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

[Rom 3:24 KJV] 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

"Faith of Christ" is used six times out of about 270 times that the word "faith" is used in the NT.

Six times that "faith of Christ" is used (Romans 3:22, 26, Galatians 2:16, 3:22, Revelation 14:12),.

Four times out of six, "faith of Christ" is used to mean that, because Christ was faithful, his righteousness is accredited to us through faith him. Christ was faithful, and so by faith in him we are justified by his grace. Therefore, those who believe in Christ are NOT imputed with Christ's faith, but rather, the faithful are imputed with Christ's righteousness by faith in him.

1. Romans 3:22 (Young's Literal Translation) 22 and the righteousness of God [is] through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference
2. Galatians 3:26 (Young's Literal Translation) 16 having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe,
3. that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.'
4. Galatians 3:22 (Young's Literal Translation) 22 but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing.

Two out of six times that "faith of Christ" means that we are to have faith in Christ that is the same as that of Christ Jesus. Lord Jesus also had as our example of faith that we follow. These two instances do NOT state that Christ's faith is imputed to us.

1. Romans 3:26 (Young's Literal Translation) for the shewing forth of His righteousness in the present time, for His being righteous, and declaring him righteous who [is] of the faith of Jesus.
2. Revelation 14:12 (Young's Literal Translation) 12 Here is endurance of the saints: here [are] those keeping the commands of God, and the faith of Jesus.'

​

Lord Jesus is our example {{{of the faith}}} we are to follow to be saved:​

• 1 John 2:4-6 (WEB) 5 This is how we know that we are in him: 6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk {{just like he walked}}.
• 1 Peter 2:21 (WEB) 21 For you were called to this, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving you {{{an example, that you should follow}}} {{in his steps}}, 22 who didn’t sin, “neither was deceit found in his mouth.” [Isaiah 53:9]
• 1 John 3:16 (WEB) 16 By this we know love, because {{{he laid down his life for us}}}. And we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.
• Revelation 3:21 (WEB) 21 He who overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me on my throne, {{as I also overcame}}, and sat down with my Father on his throne.
• Matthew 10:38 (WEB) 38 He who does not take his cross and {{follow after me}} is not worthy of me.
• John 10:27-28 (WEB) 27 My sheep listen my voice, and I know them, and they {{follow me}}. 28 I give eternal life to them.
• John 15:10 (WEB) 10 If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love; even as I {{have kept my Father’s commandments, and remain in his love}}.

 

[rogerg]

Its disrespectful because it says some will be lost in their sins even though Christ died for them and is responsible to bring every last one of them to Glory. Heb 2:9-10 Jn 6:39

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Yeah, brightfame52, based upon v39, what they are saying doesn't make sense, does it?
1) The Father sent the Son to bring forth salvation
2) The Father sends to the Son, those, and only those (but not everyone), who will be raised on the last day
3) If so, then why would Christ need to die for those who won't/can't be raised? Doing so would serve no purpose
whatsoever except to have placed a larger unnecessary burden upon Christ, right?
4) Sounds to me like the only doctrine that makes sense is that the Father sends only to Christ those who will
be raised, which then were those alone for whom Christ died.

 

[setst777]

You showing disrespect, because the ones He tasted death for, it brings them to Glory, wherein you say, some whom He died for will yet die in their sins lost. That dishonors Him

That is your mis-interpretation.

"Hebrews 2:9-10" does not state that all men whom Lord Jesus was crucified for are the sons of God; rather, you are trying to put the two sentences together as if they were referring to the same thing. But by your error you are rejecting all the other Scriptures that state that Lord Jesus died for the sins of the world.

Lord Jesus tasted death for every man, but only those who believe are sons of God - these are the ones brought to glory. That is all that "Hebrews 2:9-10" is stating. But by your mis-interpretation, you are objecting to the Gospel.

John 3:16-18 (WEB) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes (continuous believing) in him should not perish, but have eternal life [rebirth of the indwelling Spirit: John 7:37-39]. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes (continuous believing) in him is not judged. He who {{{doesn’t believe}}} has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

John 12:47 (WEB) 47 If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn’t believe, I don’t judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

 

[setst777]

Yeah, brightfame52, based upon v39, what they are saying doesn't make sense, does it?
1) The Father sent the Son to bring forth salvation
2) The Father sends to the Son, those, and only those (but not everyone), who will be raised on the last day
3) If so, then why would Christ need to die for those who won't/can't be raised? Doing so would serve no purpose
whatsoever except to have placed a larger unnecessary burden upon Christ, right?
4) Sounds to me like the only doctrine that makes sense is that the Father sends only to Christ those who will
be raised, which then were those alone for whom Christ died.

John 6:39-40 (WEB) 39 This is the will of my Father who sent me, that of all he has given to me I should lose nothing, but should raise him up at the last day. 40 For [Greek: gar, meaning "for" or "because"] this is the will of the one who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son, and believes in him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

• The Father gives to the Son (vs. 39) those who believe in the Son (vs. 40) - that is the will of the Father.
• Those who believe in the Son are the same ones who will come to the Son, which are the same ones the Father gives to the Son (John 6:37-38).

John 10:27 My sheep hear (listen) my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father who has given them to me is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

Question: Who are the {them} and {they} whom the Father {gives} to the Son?

Answer:

• The Father gives to the Son those sheep who listen to and follow His Son.
• Those sheep who listen to and follow the Son are the true believing Sheep (John 10:26).
• These believing sheep are the ones given eternal life and no one can snatch from his hand.

Therefore, the "Promise" is for those who believe; {{{for}}} that is the will of the Father (John 6:40). The Father gives to the Son those who believe in the Son. Those who believe will come to the Son.

 

[rogerg]

he Father gives to the Son (vs. 39) those who believe in the Son (vs. 40).

Were it dependent upon their faith, then that would not be the Father who is giving them to Christ, it would be them giving themselves to Christ. For it to be of the Father, it must begin and end with the Father alone, which it does.

You have the same malady as JLB. You just can't bring yourselves to believe that Christ is the Saviour, and instead, you have to make it to be through man.

 

[brightfame52]

That is your mis-interpretation.

"Hebrews 2:9-10" does not state that all men whom Lord Jesus was crucified for are the sons of God; rather, you are trying to put the two sentences together as if they were referring to the same thing. But by your error you are rejecting all the other Scriptures that state that Lord Jesus died for the sins of the world.

Lord Jesus tasted death for every man, but only those who believe are sons of God - these are the ones brought to glory. That is all that "Hebrews 2:9-10" is stating. But by your mis-interpretation, you are objecting to the Gospel.

John 3:16-18 (WEB) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes (continuous believing) in him should not perish, but have eternal life [rebirth of the indwelling Spirit: John 7:37-39]. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes (continuous believing) in him is not judged. He who {{{doesn’t believe}}} has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

John 12:47 (WEB) 47 If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn’t believe, I don’t judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

You still dishonor Christ , you are actually saying, Christs death in and of itself saved nobody.

 

[brightfame52]

Were it dependent upon their faith, then that would not be the Father who is giving them to Christ, it would be them giving themselves to Christ. For it to be of the Father, it must begin and end with the Father alone, which it does.

You have the same malady as JLB. You just can't bring yourselves to believe that Christ is the Saviour, and instead, you have to make it to be through man.

These people dont realize, believing in Christ is the fruit and effect of Him Tasting death. See Faith/Believing is the fruit of Sanctification, which Sanctification is a effect of Christs death Heb 2:11

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Roger now I know you see this, how are we sanctified according to Heb 10:10 here ?

 

[rogerg]

These people dont realize, believing in Christ is the fruit and effect of Him Tasting death. See Faith/Believing is the fruit of Sanctification, which Sanctification is a effect of Christs death Heb 2:11

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Roger now I know you see this, how are we sanctified according to Heb 10:10 here ?

Yup, pretty clear, isn't it?

 

[brightfame52]

setst777

• The Father gives to the Son those sheep who listen to and follow His Son.

They listen and follow the Son because He tasted death for them Jn 10:11,15 so He brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

 

[brightfame52]

Yup, pretty clear, isn't it?

Yes, tell us, so these folks can recognize please, I know we will agree

 

[Jon the Pied Piper]

These people dont realize, believing in Christ is the fruit and effect of Him Tasting death. See Faith/Believing is the fruit of Sanctification, which Sanctification is a effect of Christs death Heb 2:11

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

Heb 10:10

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Roger now I know you see this, how are we sanctified according to Heb 10:10 here ?

Have you wondered if you actually don’t understand “these” people?

 

[rogerg]

Yes, tell us, so these folks can recognize please, I know we will agree

Do you mean that everyone who Christ died for on the cross were sanctified by/through that one offering of Christ, once and for all, with nothing outside of that required - they, and they alone, become saved by that - it's a done deal. Yep, I believe that.

 

[brightfame52]

rogerg

Do you mean that everyone who Christ died for on the cross were sanctified by/through that one offering of Christ, once and for all, with nothing outside of that required

Amen exactly, His Tasting death Heb 2:9 is equivalent to " the one offering of Christ" of Heb 10:10 and so the saving results are the same for whom He died.

 

[Kermos]

The Christian is admonished to "drink," "live," "walk," and "sow" to the Spirit without giving up to receive eternal life from the Spirit.

Unfortunately for many Christians who refuse to drink, live, walk, and sow to the Spirit by their disobedience.

Not all Christians will remain in the faith and so will not continue to walk by the Spirit. Christians may not remain faithful, and so, they will:

• Grieve (Ephesians 4:17-32; Isaiah 63:10);
• Quench (1 Thessalonians 5:19);
• Insult (Hebrews 10:24-31);
• Resist (Act 7:51),
• Reject (1 Thessalonians 4:1-8),
• Lie to (Acts 5:3),
• Test (Acts 5:9)
• the Spirit of God indwelling them,
• which can result in eternal punishment if he dies in unrepentance, turning away from serving the flesh to walking by the Spirit (Hebrews 10:24-30);
• For the Spirit will only give eternal life to those Christians who continue to sow to the Spirit without giving up (Galatians 6:7-9).

Galatians 6:7-9 (EWEB) 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap destruction. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap eternal life. 9 Let {{us}} not be weary in doing good, for {{we}} will reap in due season, {{if we}} do not give up.

• The Spirit is not obligated to live by the Spirit to receive Life; rather,
• The Christian is obligated to live by the Spirit to receive Life.

Romans 8:12-14 (ENIV) 12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, {{{we}}} have an obligation – but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

The Spirit does not drink, live, walk, and sow to the Spirit for us.

Therefore, the “Promise” and “Guarantee” of Eternal Life by the Spirit is only for those who persevere in the faith, manifested by walking in the Spirit, which is each Christian's responsibility - according to the Scriptures. Not all Christians will remain faithful, and so will quench and insult the Spirit dwelling in them.

Hebrews 4:1 (WEB) {{{Let us}}} fear therefore, lest perhaps anyone of you should seem to have come short of a promise of entering into His Rest.

Hebrews 4:11 (EWEB) 11 {{{Let us}}} therefore give diligence to enter into that Rest, lest anyone fall after the {{same example of disobedience}}.

Hebrews 6:11-12 (EWEB) 11 We desire that {{{each one of you}}} may show the same diligence to the fullness of hope even to the end, 12 that you won’t be sluggish, but imitators of those who through {{{faith and perseverance}}} inherited the promises.

It is man's disobedience toward God for a person to think that the person "drinks," "lives," "walks," and/or "sows" to the Spirit according to the person's own power instead of the Power of God Fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) because the Apostle Peter truthfully attributes obedience of Christians to the Blessed Holy Spirit of God with "God, the souls of you having purified in the obedience to the truth through Spirit, into a sincere love of the brethren" (1 Peter 1:21-22).

The man who thinks he causes his own "drinks," "lives," "walks," and/or "sows" to the Spirit is the person practicing the deed of the flesh called idolatry (Galatians 5:19-21).

None of the verses you mention attributes obedience toward God by a person to the power of that person, and this is because obedience toward God is not of man's power but obedience toward God is the Power of God in man (1 Corinthians 1:24) just as it is testified by the Apostle Peter (1 Peter 1:20-21)!

 

[Hopeful 2]

Essentially, you are saying "the whole world" is always every person in all time because we are corresponding about:

The opportunity ends at death.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.​

(1 John 2:1-2)​

​

Despite this post's Spiritually true explanation about these verses.

And what would that "Spiritually true explanation" be ?

So, are you a part of "the whole world" in the same book where John (1 John 5:19) wrote "the whole world lies in the power of the evil one"?

I once was, but the Advocate got me out of there, thanks be to God !
He made it possible to walk in the light, and there is no darkness in here.

 

[brightfame52]

Hopeful 2

He made it possible to walk in the light, and there is no darkness in here.

Notice you said God made it possible ! Not a reality, but possible, of course you would have to give yourself credit for making it a sure reality to walk in the light.

But the True Saviour, for them He tasted death for, He causes them to walk in the Light, He became the Captain of their Salvation by His death for them, and brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Those for whom He died, they shall be effectually called out of darkness into His Marvellous light 1 Pet 2:9
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Away with that possible mess !

 

[setst777]

Were it dependent upon their faith, then that would not be the Father who is giving them to Christ, it would be them giving themselves to Christ. For it to be of the Father, it must begin and end with the Father alone, which it does.

You have the same malady as JLB. You just can't bring yourselves to believe that Christ is the Saviour, and instead, you have to make it to be through man.

You are trying to reason away, and reinterpret, the plain teaching of Scripture so it agrees with your opinions. Man's opinions have no power over God and His Word.

Lord Jesus is the Savior. And according to the Gospel of the NT Scriptures, Lord Jesus saves those who believe in him. That is the plain to understand Gospel, no matter how much you detest it.

John 3:14-18 (WEB)
14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.
18 He who believes in him is not judged.
He who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

That is God's Sovereign Plan of Salvation - the Gospel by which God saves us. God saves whosoever will believe in His Son. That is the will (John 6:40), desire (John 3:14-18), and good pleasure (1 Corinthians 1:21) of the Father.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (WEB) For seeing that in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom didn’t know God, it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save those who believe.

Very plain to understand. Take God at His word.

 

[JLB]

You ignoring what scripture says, everyone, all for whom Christ tasted death for, He is the Captain of their Salvation and brings them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

Actually I am reading what the scripture actually says, verses what you are saying.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. Hebrews 2:9

• by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

His sacrifice was for everyone in the world, not just a select few.


Those who hear and believe will be saved.

Those who do not believe will not be saved.


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 3:36





JLB