Temporal Salvation?

[Blood Bought 1953]

Big, big problem with this popular interpretation.
Verse 18 does in fact say the believer does not need to offer any more sacrifices for sin (the One Sacrifice of Jesus always being present before the Father to intercede on behalf of the believer - Hebrews 7:25).

18And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary." - Hebrews 10:18

Now let's jump down to verse 26.

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." - Hebrews 10:26-27

Here's the problem: "No sacrifice for sins is left" in vs. 26 can't mean "sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary" (vs.18) because in vs.26 what's left where there is no more sacrifice is you going to hell. How supposedly learned scholars miss this is amazing.

If you're not following what I'm saying, attach vs.18 to vs. 27 in place of vs.26 (the argument being that vs.18 and 26 are talking about the same thing, but we'll see they are not):

18And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." - Hebrews 10:18,26,27

See it? Vs.18 is talking about not needing to repeatedly offer up sacrifice for sin.
Vs.26 is talking about not having that sacrifice available anymore because of willful sinning and going to hell as a result.

99% of Sins are “ Willful”......Serious thinkers can see that and acknowledge it and thank God that Grace trumps Sins.....always....

 

[Jethro Bodine]

99% of Sins are “ Willful”......Serious thinkers can see that and acknowledge it and thank God that Grace trumps Sins.....always....

Speak for yourself.
I can count on one hand the number of times I have 'in your face' sinned against God. (I actually can't remember a specific incident, but I'm sure I've done it somewhere in the past).
I've sinned countless times out of weakness, ignorance, fear, and outright stupidity, but purposely sinning in open contempt of God's forgiveness just isn't on my radar. It means too much to me. I don't want to lose it by rejecting it in purposefully sinning.

The willful sinning the author is talking about is having a 'I don't care about the forgiveness I have received' attitude. It boils down to the sin of unbelief--a purposeful rejection of the sanctification a believer has received through faith in Christ.

I believe you when you say 99% of your sins are on purpose. That's what the new OSAS Freegrace doctrine eventually causes believers to do. What I don't believe is you are sinning in a decision to not care about the blood of Christ anymore. The danger for you, and others like you, is your sinning will lead to a hardness of heart which in turn will cause you to fall away from faith in Christ.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

?

JLB says "
There is no such thing as resting in the Gospel."
Don't know who said it, many moons ago.....

If you can't remember why I said this, then neither can I.
You think your memory is better than mind?
Prove it!!!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Speak for yourself.
I can count on one hand the number of times I have 'in your face' sinned against God. (I actually can't remember a specific incident, but I'm sure I've done it somewhere in the past).
I've sinned countless times out of weakness, ignorance, fear, and outright stupidity, but purposely sinning in open contempt of God's forgiveness just isn't on my radar. It means too much to me. I don't want to lose it by rejecting it in purposefully sinning.

The willful sinning the author is talking about is having a 'I don't care about the forgiveness I have received' attitude. It boils down to the sin of unbelief--a purposeful rejection of the sanctification a believer has received through faith in Christ.

I believe you when you say 99% of your sins are on purpose. That's what the new OSAS Freegrace doctrine eventually causes believers to do. What I don't believe is you are sinning in a decision to not care about the blood of Christ anymore. The danger for you, and others like you, is your sinning will lead to a hardness of heart which in turn will cause you to fall away from faith in Christ.

Rollo Tamasi says to Jethro Bodine, "Jesus loves you".
And so do I.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Big, big problem with this popular interpretation.
Verse 18 does in fact say the believer does not need to offer any more sacrifices for sin (the One Sacrifice of Jesus always being present before the Father to intercede on behalf of the believer - Hebrews 7:25).

18And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary." - Hebrews 10:18

Now let's jump down to verse 26.

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." - Hebrews 10:26-27

Here's the problem: "No sacrifice for sins is left" in vs. 26 can't mean "sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary" (vs.18) because in vs.26 what's left where there is no more sacrifice is you going to hell. How supposedly learned scholars miss this is amazing.

You don't think it is anyone who has received knowledge of the gospel?

John 15:22 "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin." - Jesus

John 3:19 "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil."- Jesus

They have technically received knowledge of the truth.

Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." - Jesus

 

[JLB]

JLB says "
There is no such thing as resting in the Gospel."
Don't know who said it, many moons ago.....

If you can't remember why I said this, then neither can I.
You think your memory is better than mind?
Prove it!!!

I don't claim anything about my memory being better than yours.

First of all there is one Gospel.

The Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is no such thing as "resting in Pauls gospel of grace"

Jesus is our rest and peace.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." - Jesus

As we all see, the Gospel that is to be preached in these last days, is the Gospel that Jesus Christ preaced.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I don't claim anything about my memory being better than yours.

First of all there is one Gospel.

The Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is no such thing as "resting in Pauls gospel of grace"

Jesus is our rest and peace.


JLB

You remember the important things.
That's true evangelist.

 

[JLB]

99% of Sins are “ Willful”......Serious thinkers can see that and acknowledge it and thank God that Grace trumps Sins.....always....

Grace trumps sin?

What does that mean?

Grace is the power of God given to us that enables us to obey Him.

 

[LovethroughDove]

As we all see, the Gospel that is to be preached in these last days, is the Gospel that Jesus Christ preaced.

He is the light of the world. Come to him. I truly found him because I wanted the answer to true love.

 

[JLB]

He is the light of the world. Come to him. I truly found him because I wanted the answer to true love.

He is Love.

He is the truth.

He is True Love.

 

[for_his_glory]

You make a very good point that is hard to explain to people.

It‘s not that we aren’t “saved”, but rather we are saved by faith.

If we have faith in Christ for salvation, then by default we have the “substance” of the thing we are hoping for, (salvation) meaning we don’t yet have the tangible reality that we will have when Christ returns, as you have said.

This is why it’s so important to rightly divide what I call “ initial salvation”, which refers to being saved, regenerated, or born again, which all refer to salvation by grace through faith, from receiving the salvation of our souls.

There is receiving the salvation of our souls, at the coming of the Lord when He returns to gather His people at the resurrection and rapture, if we endure to the end.


Peter says it this way —


In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:5-9

• receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.

Peter calls the trials and persecution of Christians, as being “tested by fire“; our faith is tested by fire.

Thats is the context of enduring to the end, as Jesus is prefacing the great tribulation in Matthew 24:13.


But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:13-14


Jesus also teaches about this in the parable of the sower, when He uses this same term “endure” to describe enduring persecution.


But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21


We must understand that enduring to the end refers to enduring the persecution until the end. Being faithful unto death.

Not departing from Christ to save your life so that you can live a little longer.




JLB



PS. I recommend Foxes book of martyrs.

That is a good book. I have the Martyr's Mirror which is basically the same thing.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

He is the light of the world. Come to him. I truly found him because I wanted the answer to true love.

Did the matter of your sin guilt play into your search for God in any way?

 

[for_his_glory]

99% of Sins are “ Willful”......Serious thinkers can see that and acknowledge it and thank God that Grace trumps Sins.....always....

Say I go out and willfully commit murder after having the knowledge of the truth about killing being a sin, or I go out and willfully commit adultery, is that alright to do because God's grace has already forgiven me so I know have a license to sin and God will just overlook this as He has already made the sacrifice for sin so I'm good to go do anything I want.

Please go study those scriptures we have been giving you and pray and ask the Holy Spirit give you understanding before it's to late.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Did the matter of your sin guilt play into your search for God in any way?

The matter of human sin in general did. That is why I say I wanted to know what true love is. Human love sucks. We can't even love the people we are supposed to love. I literally have a sister that hates my guts and by being my sister, she should love me. Married people......more than half end in divorce. What? Why did you marry them if it wasn't through thick and thin? Human love is awful. Sorry.

 

[JLB]

That is a good book. I have the Martyr's Mirror which is basically the same thing.

THE FOXES BOOK OF MARTYRS THREAD

In this thread I would like to share some writings from Foxes book of martyrs so that we would take courage and be strengthened in our faith and resolve to endure to the end. Please pray before you read these accounts of the faithful Christians who endured great suffering and remained steadfast...

christianforums.net

I started this thread this morning.

Please copy and paste some stories from the Martyrs mirror in there as you are led.

I also have the Scottish Coventers as well.

I will switch up as well as post some modern day testimonies.



God bless you with peace and strength today.





JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

JLB B I have the "Martyr's Mirror" and the length of each person named is to large for the forum, but maybe I can summarize it for your other thread.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Grace trumps sin?

What does that mean?

Grace is the power of God given to us that enables us to obey Him.

In Freegrace doctrine grace is the power of God to let you sin.
It misuses "where sin increased, grace increased all the more" (Romans 5:20) to excuse every and all sin of the believer in the name of grace, even the sin of willful, unrepentant unbelief, even though Jesus said that's the one sin that will not be forgiven (Matthew 12:32, Mark 3:28-29). Grace does not increase with the increase of that sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Rollo Tamasi says to Jethro Bodine, "Jesus loves you".
And so do I.

Love tells the truth, even when it hurts or is unpopular:

"15...speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love." - Ephesians 4:15-16

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You don't think it is anyone who has received knowledge of the gospel?

John 15:22 "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin." - Jesus

John 3:19 "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil."- Jesus

They have technically received knowledge of the truth.

Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." - Jesus

Hebrews 10 is talking about people sanctified by the blood of Christ--that is, believers.
Hebrews 10:10,14,29

The warning of going to hell for trampling on the Son of God by willfully going back to sin in unbelief is for sanctified saved believers. But Freegrace doctrine says you can do that because the grace of God covers any and all sins you commit, even the sin of blasphemy of the Spirit (willful, knowing unbelief), even though Jesus said that will not be forgiven.