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Temporal Salvation?

In Freegrace doctrine grace is the power of God to let you sin.
It misuses "where sin increased, grace increased all the more" (Romans 5:20) to excuse every and all sin of the believer in the name of grace, even the sin of willful, unrepentant unbelief, even though Jesus said that's the one sin that will not be forgiven (Matthew 12:32, Mark 3:28-29). Grace does not increase with the increase of that sin.

It’s simply unbelievable that people actually believe this utter nonsense. But it’s obvious they do from what Blood Bought and others try to teach.

Very sad.

I feel sorry for those who promote this demonic doctrine to babes in Christ, causing them to live in sin thinking they are saved. It would be better that they were never born, and they will wish they weren’t on the Day of judgement.



JLB
 
It’s simply unbelievable that people actually believe this utter nonsense. But it’s obvious they do from what Blood Bought and others try to teach.

Very sad.

I feel sorry for those who promote this demonic doctrine to babes in Christ, causing them to live in sin thinking they are saved. It would be better that they were never born, and they will wish they weren’t on the Day of judgement.



JLB

This guy is just like me—- surely Hell-Bound! We’ll see, won’t we?
Personally . I think he makes a lot of sense.....Newbies not ruined yet by Legalism should check out his site..........” Jesuswithoutreligion”...... please do not be persuaded by the misrepresentations of “ The Age Of Grace” and Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing.....Some Confused, poorly Taught people have never been exposed to anything other than “ Jesus Saves— B U T” .......every week they sing a Song “ Nothing But The Blood”, But they sing it mindlessly , no longer paying any attention to the words.....they probably never did. I wonder what God thinks about that?


 
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Speak for yourself.
I can count on one hand the number of times I have 'in your face' sinned against God. (I actually can't remember a specific incident, but I'm sure I've done it somewhere in the past).
I've sinned countless times out of weakness, ignorance, fear, and outright stupidity, but purposely sinning in open contempt of God's forgiveness just isn't on my radar. It means too much to me. I don't want to lose it by rejecting it in purposefully sinning.

The willful sinning the author is talking about is having a 'I don't care about the forgiveness I have received' attitude. It boils down to the sin of unbelief--a purposeful rejection of the sanctification a believer has received through faith in Christ.

I believe you when you say 99% of your sins are on purpose. That's what the new OSAS Freegrace doctrine eventually causes believers to do. What I don't believe is you are sinning in a decision to not care about the blood of Christ anymore. The danger for you, and others like you, is your sinning will lead to a hardness of heart which in turn will cause you to fall away from faith in Christ.

“ Willful” does not have to denote, “ in your face.” I am talking about “ you know it’s wrong and you are doing it anyway”.......anybody with any Self-Insight knows this to be true.....and you’d better Believe that GOD knows it !
 
Say I go out and willfully commit murder after having the knowledge of the truth about killing being a sin, or I go out and willfully commit adultery, is that alright to do because God's grace has already forgiven me so I know have a license to sin and God will just overlook this as He has already made the sacrifice for sin so I'm good to go do anything I want.

Please go study those scriptures we have been giving you and pray and ask the Holy Spirit give you understanding before it's to late.

The number of Believers that go about murdering and raping, etc is probably pretty close to the number of Serial Killers that sell everything they own .....give the proceeds to the poor....and turn the other cheek when somebody strikes them....
For the record, I think that Luther was Onto something when he wrote “ Though I murder and rape a thousand times a day, the Grace Of God covers me”.......( paraphrase ) Luther is NOT extolling Sin.....he is extolling GRACE.....AMAZING GRACE! Where Sin abounds , Grace SUPER Abounds! You are are a LOT more Rotten than you know......Grace is not Fair....
And if you are Wise , you will Praise God Forever that it isn’t......
 
It’s simply unbelievable that people actually believe this utter nonsense. But it’s obvious they do from what Blood Bought and others try to teach.

Very sad.

I feel sorry for those who promote this demonic doctrine to babes in Christ, causing them to live in sin thinking they are saved. It would be better that they were never born, and they will wish they weren’t on the Day of judgement.



JLB


We’ll see....won’t we ? I and many others think that your Doctrines are “ Demonic” also.....You no more have a “ Lock” on the Truth than I do...... Those with “ ears to hear” understand what I am saying....I once heard a good teacher of the Word say that some things just have to be “ Spiritually Discerned “ and some people Lack that “ Spirit”....... He may have been on to something....
 
I hope I am wrong, but what I have heard Blood Bought 1953 say is that you do not need to confess your sins to God because He has already forgiven all our sins, past, present and future.

He is right! The Word says so.. (I can find the scripture if you want) but as believers I believe it's good to confess and ask for forgiveness.
Remember life as Believers is a relationship!
Shalom!
 
The number of Believers that go about murdering and raping, etc is probably pretty close to the number of Serial Killers that sell everything they own .....give the proceeds to the poor....and turn the other cheek when somebody strikes them....
For the record, I think that Luther was Onto something when he wrote “ Though I murder and rape a thousand times a day, the Grace Of God covers me”.......( paraphrase ) Luther is NOT extolling Sin.....he is extolling GRACE.....AMAZING GRACE! Where Sin abounds , Grace SUPER Abounds! You are are a LOT more Rotten than you know......Grace is not Fair....
And if you are Wise , you will Praise God Forever that it isn’t......

It's strange when you said "not fair" because I always thought about God as being fair. (Yet He is)
But I understand..
What I like the most of all them words is praise God!
...
 
This guy is just like me—- surely Hell-Bound! We’ll see, won’t we?
Personally . I think he makes a lot of sense.....Newbies not ruined yet by Legalism should check out his site..........” Jesuswithoutreligion”...... please do not be persuaded by the misrepresentations of “ The Age Of Grace” and Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing.....Some Confused, poorly Taught people have never been exposed to anything other than “ Jesus Saves— B U T” .......every week they sing a Song “ Nothing But The Blood”, But they sing it mindlessly , no longer paying any attention to the words.....they probably never did. I wonder what God thinks about that?



You keep referring to the teachings of other men who no doubt believe as you do, as if their teachings is somehow going to make the truth disappear.

We all understand that nothing but the blood of Jesus is what cleanses us from sin. That’s not the point of discussion.

We see you deceitfully trying to make the discussion about
“nothing but the blood” in the hope that it will appear as if we are somehow not in agreement that nothing but the blood of Jesus can cleanse us from sin.

It’s not having access to the blood that cleanses any longer because He is no longer a sacrifice for you sin.


It really comes down to the words “no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.“


For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.
Hebrews 10:26


You have never actually addressed this point of discussion.


You just go off in a rant about everything else, in the hopes that throwing everything you have against the wall hoping it sticks, so you can avoid what the discussion is actually about.


What would cause us to no longer have a sacrifice for sins?


The Answer: You depart from Christ

You no longer have Christ, and therefore you no longer have a sacrifice for sin.



JLB
 
We’ll see....won’t we ? I and many others think that your Doctrines are “ Demonic” also.....You no more have a “ Lock” on the Truth than I do...... Those with “ ears to hear” understand what I am saying....I once heard a good teacher of the Word say that some things just have to be “ Spiritually Discerned “ and some people Lack that “ Spirit”....... He may have been on to something....


How much special discernment does a person need to understand the plain words of truth.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


If a Christian hates another brother does he still have eternal life remaining in him?


The doctrine I am promoting is to love God and love your neighbor. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.

Turn away from friendship with the world.

Don’t make yourself an enemy of God.


Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
James 4:4





JLB
 
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“ Willful” does not have to denote, “ in your face.” I am talking about “ you know it’s wrong and you are doing it anyway”.......anybody with any Self-Insight knows this to be true.....and you’d better Believe that GOD knows it !
When a sanctified believer willfully sins simply because they want to, and not because of weakness, deception, ignorance, or fear, they are trampling on the Son of God and their destiny, if they don't repent, is hell:

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? - Hebrews 10:26-29


Plain words for a plain people.
No complex, over-thought theologies are required to see this simple truth in scripture.
But they are required in order to not see this simple truth.
Freegrace doctrine says it doesn't mean what it says in order to rationalize living in sin.
 
You keep referring to the teachings of other men who no doubt believe as you do, as if their teachings is somehow going to make the truth disappear.

We all understand that nothing but the blood of Jesus is what cleanses us from sin. That’s not the point of discussion.

We see you deceitfully trying to make the discussion about
“nothing but the blood” in the hope that it will appear as if we are somehow not in agreement that nothing but the blood of Jesus can cleanse us from sin.

It’s not having access to the blood that cleanses any longer because He is no longer a sacrifice for you sin.


It really comes down to the words “no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.“


For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.
Hebrews 10:26


You have never actually addressed this point of discussion.


You just go off in a rant about everything else, in the hopes that throwing everything you have against the wall hoping it sticks, so you can avoid what the discussion is actually about.


What would cause us to no longer have a sacrifice for sins?


The Answer: You depart from Christ

You no longer have Christ, and therefore you no longer have a sacrifice for sin.



JLB

My point of view differs from yours.....all I am trying to do is offer the best argument for my side....What is being SAID is the important thing— NOT who says it! If I can type a post that is better than some of the links that Send here, I will type it......it just so happens that many times—MOST of the Time, actually —- these little YouTube snippets get the job done better than I can.
Those new to the Faith need to see that there are “ other” views out there , presented by Teachers that may be more God-Gifted than the man they listen to , mainly because their parents listened to So-and-So or ( what a coincidence! ) the Best Teacher Of The Word Just “ happens” to be within driving difference......

 
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I know you may need another youtube clip to “explain” your theology.


Can you acknowledge these words so I know you understand what they mean?

  • there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,


Im not asking for an explanation of “why” there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.


I’m asking you to acknowledge that there is indeed such a phrase written in the Bible that says ... there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.


“No longer“ indicates there was at one time a sacrifice for your sins, but something occurred, in which there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.




JLB
 
I know you may need another youtube clip to “explain” your theology.


Can you acknowledge these words so I know you understand what they mean?

  • there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,


Im not asking for an explanation of “why” there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.


I’m asking you to acknowledge that there is indeed such a phrase written in the Bible that says ... there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.


“No longer“ indicates there was at one time a sacrifice for your sins, but something occurred, in which there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.




JLB


Something DID occur.....the Cross....Temple Worship and God’s Sacrificial System , which was the only hope that a man had for approaching God was now obliterated! The Curtain was Torn from top to bottom and now Believers have Direct Access to the Throne Of Grace, whereby they can come to God with Boldness making their Requests known to Him....
There is NO Sacrifice for Sin anymore because Jesus Shed His Blood and gave Himself as the Ultimate Sacrifice , ONCE and FOR ALL and SAT DOWN! Everything that needed to be done for Salvation was now completed. To continue to shed the blood of bulls and goats was a waste of time now and worse than that...... it was “ trampling” on the Blood Of Jesus ,as if it we’re not enough.....
 
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I want the readers to think about this verse before commenting as this is very important about our salvation and faith in Christ as many teach we are already saved, but according to Matthew 24:13 we are not yet saved until the return of Christ.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I believe this is what we are missing as the end has not come yet as Christ has not yet returned to save His own. Salvation has nothing to do with being saved, but has everything to do in order for us to be saved in the end when Christ returns for His own. Salvation is about building upon our faith in Christ as when we are weak, God's grace is sufficient for us as our strength is made perfect in weakness if we trust in Christ Jesus and learn of Him, 2 Corinthians 2:9; Colossians 2:6-15.

SALVATION – delivered from sin, promise of our welfare brought about by faith in Christ Jesus.

Salvation means to be whole mind, body and soul as we surrender our will to God and allow his will to work in our lives by applying Gods word to every aspect of our lives. This allows us to know the mind of Christ and all the promises of God for our own well being so we can face anything that tries to come against us while here on this earth. We can triumph and be victorious through the grace and mercy of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus as when we are weak in faith we need to be drawing on His strength as God helps us grow our faith in Him.

Sin separates us from God because God is a spirit and can only recognize his own children by what spirit is living in their hearts. We have to renew, rebirth - born again, Gods Spirit within us in order to be called a child of God and see the kingdom of heaven, John 3:5-7. We now put off the old man (flesh) and put on the new man (Spirit), Ephesians 4:17-24. We are renewed by the word of God and through the Holy Spirit teaching us of all things.

Temporary salvation is nothing more than temporary faith, here today and gone tomorrow for faith was never built upon as it lacked understanding, never built upon to allow the grace of God to strengthen it, never built upon for it had no fellowship with the Father and His Son Christ Jesus. Those that walk away from faith, which is Christ Jesus who is our faith, never truly diligently sought after Him in order to know the mind of Christ.

A righteous person is not yet saved and remains in this fleshly body until Christ returns. If a righteous man stands steadfast in his faith as he believes and trust in the Lord no matter the circumstances that comes against him, like that of the thorn in Paul's flesh, they will do well unto the coming of the Lord. Not everyone that starts out being a virtuous person stands steadfast in their faith as they let life circumstances consume them causing them to leave their faith and rejecting Christ as their Lord and Savior as they begin to walk in hatred towards Him. Seen this happen many times as their hearts become hardened against the Lord even though they were warned by others not to turn away, but to trust in the Lord no matter what Satan has set before them, Ezekiel 3:20, 21.
Christians in this life have the promise of eternal life (2 Jn 2:25). This promise is conditional upon the Christian remaining faithful, obedient to Christ. The righteous person has this promise but can lose it by becoming unfaithful. One either possesses this promise or not.

The idea that if one casts his faith aside falling into unbelief proves he 'never really was saved' has no Biblical basis. One can gain the promise of eternal life but also lose that promise. For one to 'lose' some thing implies he must have first possessed it.


From what you post, are you claiming there is no such thing as an apostate?

646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") – properly, departure (implying desertion); apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

What does the word 'fall' mean?

Heb 4:11 "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."
1 Cor 10:12 "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."

Thayer - fall:
to fall from a state of uprightness, i. e. to sin: opposed to ἑστάναι, 1 Corinthians 10:12; opposed to στήκειν, with a dative of the person whose interests suffer by the sinning (cf. Winer's Grammar, § 31, 1 k.), Romans 14:4; to fall into a state of wickedness, Revelation 18:3; Lachmann's stereotyped edition; Tr WH text (see πίνω).

A person 'always lost, never saved' cannot fall for he is already fallen. The word 'fall' as the word apostate carries the idea one's position has changed. One who was 'always lost never saved' position has remained the same.
 
We may as well get a proper understanding of Heb 6 while we are at it.....right?




Can you acknowledge these words so I know you understand what they mean?

  • there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,


Im not asking for an explanation of “why” there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.


I’m asking you to acknowledge that there is indeed such a phrase written in the Bible that says ... there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.


“No longer“ indicates there was at one time a sacrifice for your sins, but something occurred, in which there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.




JLB
 
Something DID occur.....the Cross....Temple Worship and God’s Sacrificial System , which was the only hope that a man had for approaching God was now obliterated! The Curtain was Torn from top to bottom and now Believers have Direct Access to the Throne Of Grace, whereby they can come to God with Boldness making their Requests known to Him....
There is NO Sacrifice for Sin anymore because Jesus Shed His Blood and gave Himself as the Ultimate Sacrifice , ONCE and FOR ALL and SAT DOWN! Everything that needed to be done for Salvation was now completed. To continue to shed the blood of bulls and goats was a waste of time now and worse than that...... it was “ trampling” on the Blood Of Jesus ,as if we’re not enough.....


So these Christians no longer had a sacrifice for sins.


So much for OSAS. :wave


Thanks for making my point.


JLB
 
This guy is just like me—- surely Hell-Bound! We’ll see, won’t we?
Personally . I think he makes a lot of sense.....Newbies not ruined yet by Legalism should check out his site..........” Jesuswithoutreligion”...... please do not be persuaded by the misrepresentations of “ The Age Of Grace” and Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing.....Some Confused, poorly Taught people have never been exposed to anything other than “ Jesus Saves— B U T” .......every week they sing a Song “ Nothing But The Blood”, But they sing it mindlessly , no longer paying any attention to the words.....they probably never did. I wonder what God thinks about that?



You will be hell bound if you do not come out from these false doctrines you are trying to teach Christian newbies.

Mat 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Temptations to Sin
Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
 
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The number of Believers that go about murdering and raping, etc is probably pretty close to the number of Serial Killers that sell everything they own .....give the proceeds to the poor....and turn the other cheek when somebody strikes them....
For the record, I think that Luther was Onto something when he wrote “ Though I murder and rape a thousand times a day, the Grace Of God covers me”.......( paraphrase ) Luther is NOT extolling Sin.....he is extolling GRACE.....AMAZING GRACE! Where Sin abounds , Grace SUPER Abounds! You are are a LOT more Rotten than you know......Grace is not Fair....
And if you are Wise , you will Praise God Forever that it isn’t......

I true believer by having faith in Christ through the Spiritual regeneration, John 3:5-7, is not going to use the excuse that since we are under grace I can go about killing and raping others. If that is what you think then I am sorry for your soul on the day that Christ returns and final judgments are made for the quick and the dead. John 5:28, 29.
 
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