The 613 something or another

[JLB]

I wasn't shortening the list.

But you intentionally left some off the list that you said, "are impossible."
But you intentionally left some off the list that you said, "are possible but...require you to actually live in Israel."
But you intentionally left some off the list that you said, "only apply to groups to which I don't belong."

Does God say some laws are not applicable when choose a lifestyle or living location that make it difficult or in our view impossible to follow?

The truth is, ALL of God's laws are impossible for us to follow.

Romans 3
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Mark 10
26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Thanks WIP for your post.

"Shortening the list" is Lawlessness.

This is the very definition of "doing what is right in your on eyes", which by definition is lawlessness.

Paul said it this way -

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Romans 10:3


JLB

 

[JLB]

That doesn't mean that doctors have been done away with.

It does mean that the obsolete rules and methods have been done away with.


JLB

 

[TOG]

It does mean that the obsolete rules and methods have been done away with.

No, it doesn't.

The TOG
​

 

[JLB]

So, "Thou shallt not kill" and "Thou shallt not steal" are impossible? I'm glad I don't live close to you.

If you have been angry with someone without a cause, then you are guilty of Murder.

If you have ever sinned, then you are guilty of murder.

That would mean that if you break even one one the least of any of the commandments of the law, you would be considered the Torah Breaking Gentile. {TBG}


JLB

 

[TOG]

Explain to me how quoting a scripture from the Law that forbids that you take away from the Law, [which is what you are doing by "shortening" the list to those that you can keep], is "criticizing" you. This is the very Law that you say we should

I've explained all this many times. I'm not going to waste more time explaining again. If you want to understand (which I'm beginning to doubt), then just read what I've already written.

The TOG
​

 

[TOG]

have been angry with someone without a cause, then you are guilty of Murder. If you have ever sinned, then you are guilty of murder.

That would mean that if you break even one one the least of any of the commandments of the law, you would be considered the Torah Breaking Gentile

Would you care to quote the post where I denied that? Oh... That's right... You can't. that's because I never said what you're implying.

The TOG
​

 

[Eugene]

That means we're supposed to do the things he did. If that's impossible, then God gave us an impossible example to follow.

Hi Brother TOG. Have you experienced the reality of this in your life? Not one more sin after being in Christ? Do we follow Jesus in all He did such as going to the cross for the sins of the world, and I know we don't but we are to follow Him as Paul did according to 1 Corinthians 11:1. "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." And according to Romans 2:16 that is the standard we will be judged by as Christians.

Once in Christ we read in Romans 8:4 there is provision made that God fulfills the righteousness of the law in us (Not by us) who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. My thoughts.

 

[JLB]

I posted a list of 20 commandments that most Christians believe we needn't bother with. Since then, nobody has said anything about those commandments. They have only criticized me for not posting the list they wanted.

No one criticized you, we just pointed out from the law that you don't get to make up the rules you decide that you are going to keep.

It's called "taking away" from the Law.

The Law of Moses forbids that.

Your own mouth condemns you, and not I; Yes, your own lips testify against you. Job 15:6


JLB

 

[JLB]

It does mean that the obsolete rules and methods have been done away with.

No, it doesn't.

The TOG
​

The Law is obsolete and has vanished away in the Light of The Son.


JLB

 

[TOG]

Hi Brother TOG. Have you experienced the reality of this in your life? Not one more sin after being in Christ?

I didn't say it was easy. I didn't say I had attained it. I just said it was possible. As Paul said...

Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. (Philippians 3:12 ESV)
​

Whether I fulfill the Bible's ideals and requirements doesn't change what those ideals and requirements are.

The TOG
​

 

[TOG]

No one criticized you, we just pointed out from the law that you don't get to make up the rules you decide that you are going to keep. It's called "taking away" from the Law.

There you go again. How is saying "You did something wrong" not criticizing me? Try addressing the actual issues. Pick one of the commandments I listed and show from Scripture where it was made obsolete.

The TOG
​

 

[TOG]

The Law is obsolete and has vanished away in the Light of The Son.

Do you have a Scripture verse to back that up?

The TOG
​

 

[reba]

Please stop making the discussion personal... Moderator....

 

[JLB]

No one criticized you, we just pointed out from the law that you don't get to make up the rules you decide that you are going to keep. It's called "taking away" from the Law.

There you go again. How is saying "You did something wrong" not criticizing me? Try addressing the actual issues. Pick one of the commandments I listed and show from Scripture where it was made obsolete.

The TOG
​

When you take away from the Law to make a list of Laws you can keep, you are breaking the Law of Moses.

Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it. Deuteronomy 12:32

Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you--Moses, in whom you trust. John 5:45


JLB

 

[reba]

This is pure wisdom!

WOW THANKS

 

[Eugene]

Hi Brother TOG. Have you experienced the reality of this in your life? Not one more sin after being in Christ?

I didn't say it was easy. I didn't say I had attained it. I just said it was possible. As Paul said...

Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. (Philippians 3:12 ESV)
​

Whether I fulfill the Bible's ideals and requirements doesn't change what those ideals and requirements are.

The TOG
​

Those requirements are fulfilled in Jesus and by Him; not us. There is the rest we enter in Christ. I don’t see what you’re excusing you of. No one will be in heaven that sins.

1John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. Brother, do you love God?

1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not . . You just admitted above that you sin, and I have yet to have ever found any that don't. I consider me born of God; don't you?

1 John_2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Can you explain this? What is His commandments that we've kept. Will there be anything in heaven that defiles? Looks pretty grim unless God has made provision for us doesn't it?

Thanks.

 

[Eugene]

People have implied that I Don't love God, that I'm not born of God, that I'm a hypocrite, that I am a murderer, that I purposely break God's law and other things.

Dear brother, please forgive me if what I said gave you that thought of condemnation; it was indeed not meant to, but to show the impossibility of keeping all the law ever. We will always only be accepted in Christ and His righteousness.

From your very testimony I suppose you to love God with all your heart, to be born of God, and just as qualified to enter into all God has prepared for us. I know of no sin I commit that is not of commission or omission, and they are not accidental. The reason we go to God at those times is because God works in us to will and to do of His good pleasure.

When God looks at us He sees His Son and His righteousness as our standing, but then there remains our subjection to His will for us that establishes our state, and our reward. If I have been of no absolute value in anything I have attempted to bring forth I withdraw from this thread as I consider you my brother in Christ that God has received.

Blessing in Christ Jesus.

 

[TOG]

Dear brother, please forgive me if what I said gave you that thought of condemnation; it was indeed not meant to

I accept your apology, and I am sorry if I have misunderstood you. Please do not withdraw from the thread because of me.

We will always only be accepted in Christ and His righteousness.

I agree with you completely on this. The problem is that so many people I've met, both on the Internet and in real life, instantly assume that I am trying to earn my salvation if I tell them I keep the Sabbath or don't eat pork, and then they start pointing out my faults and that I can't save myself. Maybe these past experiences are just causing me to read things wrong. If they are, then I apologize to anyone I have offended or misrepresented.

The TOG
​

 

[Eugene]

We will always only be accepted in Christ and His righteousness.

I agree with you completely on this. The problem is that so many people I've met, both on the Internet and in real life, instantly assume that I am trying to earn my salvation if I tell them I keep the Sabbath or don't eat pork, and then they start pointing out my faults and that I can't save myself. Maybe these past experiences are just causing me to read things wrong. If they are, then I apologize to anyone I have offended or misrepresented.

Thank you Brother TOG. I attempt to always remember the following scripture in dealing with different doctrines our brethren are affiliated with, and in spite of our differences God loves us as the elect of God. May God bless your effort to please Him and be in His perfect will for you all the days of your life, and you are a blessing to me. I love you brother and encourage you to continue to fight the good fight of faith in Jesus' name.

Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

 

[JLB]

The Law is obsolete and has vanished away in the Light of The Son.

Do you have a Scripture verse to back that up?

The TOG
​

13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13

and again -


19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." Galatians 2:19-21

again -

Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 3:3

Please notice the context that is being portrayed here by Paul.

The context of what Paul writes is about Gentiles Christians who have been compelled by Judaizers to attain a more complete [perfect] righteousness.

... are you now being made perfect by the flesh.

Paul's context is NOT about warning Christians trying to attain salvation by the works of the law, but adding the Law to the Christian walk of the Spirit., and trying to attain perfection by the Law.

The works of the law is mans own effort, hence the phrase "by the flesh".

The point being what Paul writes here forbidding the works of the law being added to the Christian walk of the Spirit.

as he goes on to say -

5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?--

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them."

For as many are as of the law are under a curse.

Anyone who tries to do some of the law for whatever reason is under a curse.

as it is written -

"Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

Either it is being dead to the law or do all of the law.

Crucified to the law, or continue in all of the law.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made;

We have become a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree,which is the Lord. The Covenant with Abraham.

We are not grafted into Law of Moses and natural Israel.


JLB